Um, yeah, I want my 3 hours of lapping back.

Dec 30, 2004
12,553
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Lapped both my CPU and TR Ultra 120 down to a mirror; no improvement in temps. Makes me lol.

So, I just don't get what I should do. I could get a Ninja cooler that runs at 1600RPM and use that, but then it would be blowing more air towards the back fan than the back fan sucks out, which means I would need a second Ninja for the back, but that means I'd need a 3rd ninja for the front of my case (btw it's a CM 690) to equalize it....

What can I do? I don't like having temps of 74C. Well, that's only in Orthos small; I never see those temps when gaming/doing anything else.

edit: shame on me for making such a silly grammar mistake and letting it go so long!
 

crapfest

Member
Nov 26, 2007
27
0
0
Did you check the flatness of both surfaces with a razor blade? Flatness is way more important than the mirror shine.

Is the heatsink seated properly?

Did you use the right amount/kind of thermal paste?
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
7
81
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Lapped both my CPU and TR Ultra 120 down to a mirror; no improvement in temps. Makes me lol.

Lapping is like using the Progression method in Blackjack. Works for some, others think it is a waste of time.

I'm an "other." :evil:
 

WaTaGuMp

Lifer
May 10, 2001
21,207
2,506
126
Originally posted by: Zap
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Lapped both my CPU and TR Ultra 120 down to a mirror; no improvement in temps. Makes me lol.

Lapping is like using the Progression method in Blackjack. Works for some, others think it is a waste of time.

I'm an "other." :evil:

I am an other also, cause as far as I am concerned todays CPU's run cool enough.
 

Tempered81

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
6,374
1
81
Originally posted by: crapfest
Did you check the flatness of both surfaces with a razor blade? Flatness is way more important than the mirror shine.

this is the important part... the flatness and connection of the two metal surfaces
 

covert24

Golden Member
Feb 24, 2006
1,809
1
76
hey jared what kind of temps do you get with that set up idle/load?

like everyone else said check the flatness
 

Riverhound777

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2003
3,360
61
91
I lapped my Tuniq Tower yesterday and it made no diff for me either. Luckily I didn't lap the CPU. But I think my issue is with Bios readings on the E8400 since there are tons of people getting high readings besides me.
 

covert24

Golden Member
Feb 24, 2006
1,809
1
76
Originally posted by: Riverhound777
I lapped my Tuniq Tower yesterday and it made no diff for me either. Luckily I didn't lap the CPU. But I think my issue is with Bios readings on the E8400 since there are tons of people getting high readings besides me.

yea im getting 39* on core 1 and 43* on core 2 on IDLE. I just dont understand it. a smaller die + less wattage = more heat?!
 

Tempered81

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
6,374
1
81
did you put AS5 on both sides spread evenly, a very small amount? some people have said they even put the two surfaces together without TIM and the temps were equal or lower than having a little paste there. What were the temps load before/after lapping?
 

Riverhound777

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2003
3,360
61
91
Originally posted by: covert24
Originally posted by: Riverhound777
I lapped my Tuniq Tower yesterday and it made no diff for me either. Luckily I didn't lap the CPU. But I think my issue is with Bios readings on the E8400 since there are tons of people getting high readings besides me.

yea im getting 39* on core 1 and 43* on core 2 on IDLE. I just dont understand it. a smaller die + less wattage = more heat?!

I'm getting about 44C on each core running at 4050MHz. 67C under load. But it's stable and runs great, so i'm just going to leave it. We are using different boards, so I dont think it is that.
 

GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
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I think some chips are thermal bums, IHS not contacting the core properly? more leakage than others? I don't know the reason. But I have an E6400 like that, it just runs hot even at idle and requires more volts than it should to overclock at 3.2ghz with a well seated TRUE w/ 1600rpm sflex fan I can barely keep it under 70c, at 3ghz it drops to mid 50's
 

Tempered81

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
6,374
1
81
well 4050mhz full load at 67C is about equal to my temps as well...

I don't consider this bad. its not 50C load temps, but it's not 85C load temps either.
 

Ika

Lifer
Mar 22, 2006
14,264
3
81
A C2D at 3.4 shouldn't be getting those kind of temps unless 1) something is wrong or 2) you're giving it INSANE volts.
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
7
81
Originally posted by: covert24
yea im getting 39* on core 1 and 43* on core 2 on IDLE. I just dont understand it. a smaller die + less wattage = more heat?!

I fail to see a problem. Your body temperature is 37ºC, so the CPU should barely feel warm to your finger at 39ºC.

Also, smaller die will have lower surface area to transfer heat to the heatspreader, countering the lesser wattage.
 

jedisoulfly

Member
Jul 2, 2007
61
0
0
To ensure a perfectly flat surface check out this site. The 6" x 8" one for $12.95 ($20.85 after shipping great shipping considering it weighs 12lbs) is more than large enough IMO for the lapping of HS and IHS. Has bilateral accuracy of plus or minus .0001"

I have seen advertised for some HS (can't think of what ones off hand) that they hand lap to 1200 or sometimes 1600. Most likely they are lapping on surface plates just like this. The average table, counter or desk top is going to have a much lower (less flat) tolerance than .0001"

http://www.grizzly.com/product...=granite+surface+plate
 

Gillbot

Lifer
Jan 11, 2001
28,830
17
81
I lapped my old AMD A64 x2 and it netted zero change no matter what I did, on the other hand my old PPro benefited quite a bit after lapping. I've seen it work sometimes and not others so i'm indifferent. I will say I don't do it now mostly because of lazyness.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
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Originally posted by: jedisoulfly
To ensure a perfectly flat surface check out this site. The 6" x 8" one for $12.95 ($20.85 after shipping great shipping considering it weighs 12lbs) is more than large enough IMO for the lapping of HS and IHS. Has bilateral accuracy of plus or minus .0001"

I have seen advertised for some HS (can't think of what ones off hand) that they hand lap to 1200 or sometimes 1600. Most likely they are lapping on surface plates just like this. The average table, counter or desk top is going to have a much higher tolerance than .0001"

http://www.grizzly.com/product...=granite+surface+plate

That's a really cool idea; I don't want to lug that around when I'm moving between dorms though lol.

I've been lapping on the desk.
 

Phunk0ne

Senior member
Jul 20, 2007
494
0
0
well if for some it does not work, why am I getting 24C Idle and 44C Load when both my IHS and TR U-120-E are lapped?
Whereas before lapping my IHS, i was idling mid ~33 and stressed ~52C?

If both surfaces are lapped a nice and smooth even flat surface the need of TIM is even less than before. I used 1/4th the size of a grain of rice and evenly spread it out on the IHS with a razor. Mirror finish is completely unnecessary but it looks darn cool =)


edit: noted temps are ORTHOS. During gaming my temps are significantly lower
 

tigersty1e

Golden Member
Dec 13, 2004
1,963
0
76
I would use a geometry graph paper to check to see if the contacts are flat.

You didn't use any solvent to get a mirror finish, right? Just sandpaper?

 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,686
2,060
126
Only checked the OP of the Op-er, scanning through some other posts quickly.

First, on the TR-Ultra 120 Extreme or the Ultima 90, you need a primitive jig (as in jigs that are featured for your woodworking router in "American Woodworker Magazine.") I spoke to tech-support at SVC.com, concerning their approach to custom-lapped U-120-extremes. They confirmed my guess that they'd designed a jig so they could knock out the custom-lappings like an M-16 spits lead.

The reason you need a jig is as follows. TR deliberately designed a convex ridge that runs evenly across the middle of the heatsink base. Therefore, you need to start the lapping to begin grinding a flat surface evenly in that ridge-- as opposed to grinding it down on one side or the other.

I used two pieces of white-pine, although oak would've been better, cut 1/2" x 1/2" x 6" length. [and the reason I used white pine: I already had a length of 1/2" x 1/2" that was 12" long.]

I have a little six-inch quick-release clamp that came in a set I bought at an auto-parts store (although you'd find this sort of thing useful for woodworking.) I slipped the clamp through the heatpipes, put the wood slats on either side of the base (and obviously, none of these items come in contact with the pipes.) I aligned them with the glass coffee table I use for lapping, so that they were also flush with the base. I tightend the clamp.

Then I started lapping. When the flat area on the convex ridge had widened to 1/2" or more, I pulled off the wood and clamps, and carefully continued, attentive to keeping the flat surface flush with the sandpaper.

You need to check flatness with a straightedge -- a razor-blade for instance. You do this by holding the surface up to a strong light and turning it so that the razor-blade spans various points on the "compass."

This holds equally for the IHS of the processor, although you don't need a jig for that. You're also advised to grind off all the nickel-plating, because nickel has a significantly lower thermal conductivity and higher thermal resistance (opposite sides -- same coin) -- than copper.

These things can be carefully measured at controlled room-ambients, and I am telling you that I did it. The lapped version of the U-120-Extreme was worth at least an extra 3 to 4C improvement over the unlapped version -- some people reporting more. Lapping the processor cap as I did this week means between 4C and 5C improvement. Diamond thermal paste, given tests I performed last summer with both my own homemade "mix" and IC Diamond -- is worth between 2 and 4C degrees improvement.

Amen.

Go in peace.

PS. Apply powers of deduction to this story:

Temperature accounting 101
 

the unknown

Senior member
Dec 22, 2007
374
4
81
Originally posted by: jedisoulfly
To ensure a perfectly flat surface check out this site. The 6" x 8" one for $12.95 ($20.85 after shipping great shipping considering it weighs 12lbs) is more than large enough IMO for the lapping of HS and IHS. Has bilateral accuracy of plus or minus .0001"

I have seen advertised for some HS (can't think of what ones off hand) that they hand lap to 1200 or sometimes 1600. Most likely they are lapping on surface plates just like this. The average table, counter or desk top is going to have a much higher tolerance than .0001"

http://www.grizzly.com/product...=granite+surface+plate

Maybe I'm just being a smart-ass here, but wouldn't this surface only be as level as the one you put it on top of :p? And if you're hand lapping a CPU, uneven pressure when grinding away at it would make a much bigger problem than the surface you're doing it on? Just seems extreme to me, even on an enthusiast forum ;)
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,686
2,060
126
We have this 3' x 5' glass coffee-table. That is, the base and legs are wrought-iron, and the table top is just a 1/2" -- whoops! just looked at it again -- 3/4" thick piece of glass resting on rubber pads glued to the base.

For a long time, I've hated this coffee table, because I like colonial-style furniture with a warm "colonial-style" stain and beautifully polished satin finish. Like the one I built.

I would come into this room in the dark, and bang my leg into the corner of the glass table. And with heavy jeans on, it would still leave a gash -- I have the scars.

But now, I like it -- mostly for one, single reason.

You can show me all the granite surfaces at "fine machinery" web-sites, . . . . but you don't think that 3/4"-thick glass is an irregular surface, due yoooo?

The rest of it is just the uniformity of the metal. It will all grind down at the same rate, and for all intents and purposes -- barring inspection with an electron microscope -- it will be razor-blade-edge, 360-degrees-of-the-compass -- flat. For the difference in how you hold it, whether your fingers exert a little more pressure here or there, when it gets down to the nitty-gritty (haha), it's hard metal, and although softer than steel, it's going to grind down evenly. It is a material that will dissipate any "unevenness in pressure" uniformly. Besides, with the water on the sandpaper, you don't need a lot of pressure. You just need it to move across the sandpaper evenly.
 

Capitalizt

Banned
Nov 28, 2004
1,513
0
0
I'd bet anything that your problem is too much thermal compound..

You know...with lapped surfaces you barely need ANY arctic silver on there. If you have two perfectly flat surfaces and a big goop of stuff in between them, your temps are still going to suck.

You should be using a **PAPER THIN** layer...and I mean that literally.
Take a drop and smear it across the CPU with your finger in a baggie, then use a "paint the fence" motion with a razor blade to achieve a perfectly flat, perfectly smooth layer of AS5. It should literally be as thin as a piece of paper. Drop the heatsink on...then let it bake onto the processor for a few days (it takes several on-off cycles to settle in)

If you don't see a decent drop in temps, your problem is most likely bad airflow in the case.