Ultra X-Connect 500w PSU - $14.99 AR

[darkavenger626]

Originally posted by: mindless1

Originally posted by: darkavenger626
This entire debate is arbitrary. Believe it or not, a customer will buy whatever he/she wants depending on two things the price of the item and the utility (units of happiness) it brings them. There are plenty of people discussing their personal opinions here but in reality if YOU dont like it YOU should not buy it, that doesn't mean that nobody else thinks this is well worth it (When we talk about what a product is worth to each person we mean the marginal utility which is ulility/price). If you personally do not like the PSU dont call other people dumb because they think otherwise. Ultimately the comsumer alone (nobody else) will decide if the unit is worth $15.

Who called someone else dumb?

It's not at all arbitrary though.

Suppose you buy a car and the sticker says "V6" engine. Is it OK if it only has a 4 cylinder in it? Someone could argue "but you can still get where you need to go", and of course that would be beside the point. Suppose you're thirsty and buy a 16 oz. bottle of cola. Is it really OK if the bottle only has 10 oz. in it so long as you're not thirsty anymore?

Hence the issue here- it is a basic fundamental requirement that a product be spec'd accurately according to it's capabilities and built accordingly. Power supply ratings are long ago established, industry standards even before consumer PCs existed. It makes no real difference whether you or I or anyone else "likes" it, this is a fundamental technical and legal issue about product specs. There may be worse products in the market too, but that does not begin to diminish the need for products to be presented accurately to the consumer.

Wow your argument about the car and the cola completely blows my mind cus its so off topic. Read my post more carefully. Im saying that the idividual consumer will buy what he or she wants and theres nothing you can do to stop it. The consumer will decide whether or not the PSU is marked correctly no you or I.

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: darkavenger626
Wow your argument about the car and the cola completely blows my mind cus its so off topic.

Your mind has been blown because you can't even begin to grasp basic facts about power supplies or consumer rights. The examples were quite relevant as they are of a feature/quantity being advertised to a consumer then some third party claiming it's OK if consumer gets something that falls short, trying to downplay it with some kind of nonsense argument like "it doesn't matter if it does what you need it to". Sorry but that's ludicrous. Primary criteria for spec'ing a power supply includes the parameters in question. It is a POWER SUPPLY! There is no ambiguity about this, that it must be able to do what is claimed in the intended, marketed use.

Read my post more carefully. Im saying that the idividual consumer will buy what he or she wants and theres nothing you can do to stop it. The consumer will decide whether or not the PSU is marked correctly no you or I.

There is no amount of care in reading your post that changes the fact that this post you've made was just P L A I N , W R O N G


There is no "decision" by a customer that changes the physical, real power supply sitting there. It is not subject to your whims nor pliable to your will. It is subject to precise scientific measurements and can be FACTUALLY documented without any need or relevance to a consumer's opinion. If you doubt this then I suggest you start studying a thing called "science".

A customer could certainly find this PSU to be sufficient for the system it's used in, depending on that system's actual needs, but that is an entirely separate issue from whether they "think" it's "marked correctly". You are right about one thing- that the customer could easily find it worth the price, but I already stated that much in prior posts.

 

[gu3]

interesting, didn't notice this;
last year the homepage for these units [ultraproducts.com]
gave a complimentary warranty upgrade for three years
from one-year, simply for registering.
Now the three year is standard while the complimentary extends to
LIFETIME.

 

[Lithan]

I've seen several reviews where Youngyear supplies blew up. In two I recall it took the mobo with it. Most people consider them just above L&C supplies. I wouldn't bank my several thousand dollar system on the off-chance that a $15 PSU manufacturer turned themselves around in the past couple years.

 

[Lithan]

Originally posted by: gu3
interesting, didn't notice this;
last year the homepage for these units [ultraproducts.com]
gave a complimentary warranty upgrade for three years
from one-year, simply for registering.
Now the three year is standard while the complimentary extends to
LIFETIME.

Have you ever noticed how almost every sub $50 infomercial advertises a lifetime warranty? Ever considered that is because it's actually CHEAPER to buy the product new than to go through with the RMA?

 

[demon42]

Originally posted by: chilifries
Any know if the cables included with this PSU will be long enough to fit in the Antec p180 case?

anyone?

 

[SuperSix]

Originally posted by: endscape

Originally posted by: feralkid

There are more positive reviews of this unit, but I guess these must just be from manufacturers' shills.

As some have pointed out, this is a "crap" unit, so ignore all of the positive reviews and focus only on the negative.



Here

And Here

And Here

Any PSU review that uses a multimeter or motherboard voltage readings as their lone means of testing should be disregarded, period.

How about these reviews?

http://www.slcentral.com/ultra-x-finity-500w-600w--flexforce-cables/
http://www.slcentral.com/ultra-x-finity-600w-psu/
http://www.slcentral.com/ultra-x-finity-500w-power-supply/
http://www.slcentral.com/ultra-x-connect-500w-titanium-psu/

Even with all of that equipment he's using to test these, he's wrong too?

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: SuperSix
Even with all of that equipment he's using to test these, he's wrong too?

The equipment doesn't change the test methodology, doesn't turn a static resistive load into a MHz frequency dynamic and capacitive load either. The duration of the testing doesn't qualify the PSU for any regular use either.

Recognize that even the worst PSU out there can be ran for awhile in a state that will cause it's early demise, it is not only a theory, but a demonstraable and repeatable event. WHen you hear of someone who had (any) PSU, fail, it was running up until that point, usually a far longer duration than these tests even if intermittently power cycled from day to day. Reviewers do the quick test of an easy load- the opposite of what is seen in a PC.

 

[SuperSix]

Originally posted by: mindless1

Originally posted by: SuperSix
Even with all of that equipment he's using to test these, he's wrong too?

The equipment doesn't change the test methodology, doesn't turn a static resistive load into a MHz frequency dynamic and capacitive load either. The duration of the testing doesn't qualify the PSU for any regular use either.

Recognize that even the worst PSU out there can be ran for awhile in a state that will cause it's early demise, it is not only a theory, but a demonstraable and repeatable event. WHen you hear of someone who had (any) PSU, fail, it was running up until that point, usually a far longer duration than these tests even if intermittently power cycled from day to day. Reviewers do the quick test of an easy load- the opposite of what is seen in a PC.

So essentially - in your opinion, there's no way to test a power supply? Or anything else for that matter, given your flawed logic.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: SuperSix

So essentially - in your opinion, there's no way to test a power supply? Or anything else for that matter, given your flawed logic.

It's the Interweb, Six. All reviews are flawed unless they coincide with an individual's agenda.

For those who say it doesn't have enough power:

http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard...ics_cards-06.html#ten_display_overkill

(Although in the review they say they used a Tagan. Typo?)

For those who think their power rating is exaggerated:

http://www.ultraproducts.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1742&postcount=3

For those who think they're selling for cheap because they're cheap power supplies:

http://www.ultraproducts.com/x2/

They discontinued the original X-Connect a few months ago. They've been on clearance ever since.

EDIT: Fixed Tom's link. Guess they don't allow deep linking.

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: SuperSix
So essentially - in your opinion, there's no way to test a power supply? Or anything else for that matter, given your flawed logic.

Are you just slow or trying to be a troll? I've mentioned things all along, but if you want the short and sweet version: There is no adequate power supply test that only runs for a few hours, nor that only uses static resistive loads. Further It will require RMS readings, an o-scope, and recovery time readings. Temp measurements will also need taken, not of the system as it is not the PSU's job to cool the system but of the PSU parts as well as the specs for parts in the power path.

Good engineering is not about trying to cut every corner possible inside towards the end of shaving off some cost. Maybe you don't appreciate the difference between generic caps or fans but I and others do, and most major PSU manufacturers do too, as well as OEMs.

You want to claim the "majority" think these are good? The majority of systems are OEM boxes that use name-brand power supplies. Ultra produces a less expensive unit yet OEMs, even in this day and age when they desperately want to cut costs to stay competitive, won't touch them. They only have dedicated, trained engineers to do testing though, so what could they know.

I suppose it all boils down to whether someone is so desperate to learn something that they just soak in whatever they see on websites, not even bothering to learn a bit beforehand so they have some context. If you see 80 reviews all using similar flawed methodolgy, is it really a wonder that they might draw a similar conclusion about same power supply? Seems like that's exactly what one would expect to happen, because just like proper testing being repeatable, so is improper testing.

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
They discontinued the original X-Connect a few months ago. They've been on clearance ever since.

Actually they were selling similar PSU (std ATX 2.03)with less eyecandy for $30 before either aforementioned models even existed, in a case that was only colored with fan grill, and under $25 with plain case.

I'll say one thing about this thread- amazing how the potential to save a few $ makes somone want so badly for something to be true that they'll try to wish it to be so.

Suppose this PSU sold for same price as a PC Power & Cooling Turbo Cool 425W or 510W version. Everyone who would pick an Ultra instead, raise your hand. Surely if it's capable of what Ultra and some other posters claim, there can be no real difference?

How about Antec, Fortron, Delta, or one of the other major name brands? Who'd pick this Ultra instead? Good luck- you'll need it.

 

[Googer]

Just look at how wimpy the guts are on this jumbo 500w (alegedly) PSU are.
http://www.hardcoreware.net/image.php?src=2956&ts=1092024920
http://www.gruntville.com/reviews/PSUs/ultraxconnect/page3.php

I have seen bigger PSU parts on a PC Power and Cooling Turbo Cool 300 Watt.
Here is a PC Power and Cooling. Just compaire the Guts of a Smaller 475 Watt unit. You will see how much better than it is compaired to the SO CALLED 500. For my money I would rather have the 475.
http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/reviews/cases/PCPC475_Image_5.html
http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/reviews/cases/PCPC475_1.html

The PC Power and Cooling PSU looks like what a PSU should look like. Not some anarexic super model that the Ultra is: Starving on the inside and beautiful on the outside.

 

[Googer]

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/pdf/Turbo-Cool_510_vs.pdf

 

[Lithan]

I'd use a different model PSU for my pcp&C example. It's pretty hard to see the internals of that one due to it's small footprint and the heatsinks running over the top.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: mindless1

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
They discontinued the original X-Connect a few months ago. They've been on clearance ever since.

Surely if it's capable of what Ultra and some other posters claim, there can be no real difference?

I'm going to guess you're being sarcastic here, right?

PC Power and Cooling will typically have less than a < 1% variation going from idle to load. In the Ultra, I've found as much as 3% going from idle to load. I personally have had no problems because of this, but a lot of people like the piece of mind of having such stable rails. It sure as heck aint a bad thing. But it's a lot like insisting on a V8 for driving around town. I can get around town with a 4 banger just as well and it doesn't cost me as much.

How about Antec, Fortron, Delta, or one of the other major name brands? Who'd pick this Ultra instead? Good luck- you'll need it.

Thank you!

Nobody's comparing it to PC Power & Cooling. But not everyone has $200 to spend on a power supply.

Antec, Fortron or Delta? Eh.. I've had my issues there too. Antec's blowing up in my face when I worked at TCWO. An FSP that blew up on my bench during it's review and nobody from FSP would get back with me and Delta.... well... who can complain about the company that supplies units for Intel brand servers.

Fact of the matter is; there's lots of different power supplies on the market. I don't drive a Mercedes. I don't have a PCP&C power supply. I do like the finish and cables, and one of the two I have have been powering my machine for a couple years with no issue (then again, I am blessed with good luck.. right? )

 

[Googer]

While this Hiper power supply unit shows a lot of promise, it also shows some room for improvement. Voltage and fan adjustments would be welcome. Higher quality name-brand capacitors and beefier heatsinks would also be recommended if the hardware enthusiast market is to take notice.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: Googer

While this Hiper power supply unit shows a lot of promise, it also shows some room for improvement. Voltage and fan adjustments would be welcome. Higher quality name-brand capacitors and beefier heatsinks would also be recommended if the hardware enthusiast market is to take notice.

I don't know what Hiper's Type-R has to do with anything in this thread... but I'll bite.

Voltage and fan adjustments are just another toy. You can't strike a point against a power supply for something it doesn't NEED nor do most other PSU's have.

I haven't seen the caps, so I can't comment. My guess is that their 1000uF where 1200uF is the accepted norm for a non_PFC PSU.

As for "beefier heatsinks"... that's an often repeated ignorant misconception. Many things have to be taken into consideration before slapping big heatsinks onto a power supply. This isn't an Overclocked FX55 in a huge Chen Ming Cragon. It's a power supply. Think of it as an Overclock FX55 in a Shuttle SSF build.

The biggest thing to overcome is air flow. This is why you find more powerful power supplies with two 80's front to back. Because a direct front to back air flow is going to provide the best cooling. And when you have this straight through flow, you can use pretty big heatsinks too.

But why can't you put bigger heatsinks in a PSU where you have a fan on the bottom? Because the bigger heatsinks can actually cause an airflow obstruction and you'll find that the PSU actually runs HOTTER than one with smaller heatsinks!!!

Take an Enermax for example. Arguably the smallest heatsinks on the market. Are we now going to judge Enermax for their small heatsinks? Enermax found that because the air flow has to make a 90 degree turn from the bottom of the power supply to the back that anything larger would be an obstruction of airflow.

In the last year I've been doing nothing but reviewing power supplies and talking to power supply manufacturers. And I've learned a lot over a short period of time. Consider this: The price difference between the small heatsinks that are in that Hiper and something oversized like the heatsinks that are in the OCZ 520ADJ is only 5 cents at the manufacturer level.

The other thing that's not taken in consideration in that review when complaining about it's heatsinks is it's efficiency. A more efficienct power supply can actually BENEFIT from smaller heatsinks because better airflow is allowed to all parts of the power supply and not just the components with the sinks on them.

Now I don't know what the efficiency of that Hiper is because I haven't tested one, but O2 doesn't have the equipment so I know he hasn't either.

And you can't take it's ">70% Efficiency rating" as meaning it "typically has 70% efficiency." MOST ">70% efficiency" power supplies actually have the same efficiency as a power supply that has "80% efficiency at 50% load at 50C." When they say a PSU has >70% efficiency, they're just telling you that the PSU's efficiency never drops below 70%... even if it's at 100% load (where efficiency would be at the worst.)

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Googer

While this Hiper power supply unit shows a lot of promise, it also shows some room for improvement. Voltage and fan adjustments would be welcome. Higher quality name-brand capacitors and beefier heatsinks would also be recommended if the hardware enthusiast market is to take notice.

My mistake.

 

[CraKaJaX]

X-Connect is a piece of garbage.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: CraKaJaX
X-Connect is a piece of garbage.

What a scientific observation.

This coming from someone with a power supply that has insane 5V crossload issues and upwards of 5% fluctuation at any 12V load over 24A. :roll:

 

[Budarow]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: CraKaJaX
X-Connect is a piece of garbage.

What a scientific observation.

This coming from someone with a power supply that has insane 5V crossload issues and upwards of 5% fluctuation at any 12V load over 24A. :roll:

Go JonnyGURU....Go!!

I purchased this Ultra PS back in March of this year because it seemed to have great specs and looked REALLY good. Shortly afterwards, I started reading all the negative posts from people who NEVER owned an Ultra power supply, but still considered ALL Ultra power supplies total crap. I thought perhaps I made a grevious error until I started reading more and more posts from people who ACTUALLY owned this PS and were not having any issues with it.

All I read was good reports for the Ultra 500 Watt modular PS with the 34a on the 12-volt rail.

Reading your web-site review was a major reason why I came to the conclusion that this Ultra PS was a good piece of hardware. With all the negativity going around the net related to Ultra power supplies, it's tough to filter out the biased information coming from the uninformed from the reliable information coming from the peeps like yourself. Thanks for spreading the truth about this PS.

Regards,

Bud

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: Budarow
I purchased this Ultra PS back in March of this year because it seemed to have great specs and looked REALLY good.

This is exactly where the problem with it lies. If it had been rated lower, and had better fans, suddenly it becomes more approprite for the intended use.

WHY is that anyone would believe it's evidence of anything that it outputs 500W?
Has it not occured to anyone that ANY power supply is supposed to be able to handle peaks above the labeled wattage, but that it also has to have acceptible lifespan?

Right now I can take any random 300W PSU and put a static resistive load on it to make it output about 400W. Is that proof it is a 400W PSU? No. Does that mean it would OK if the manufacturer had put a 400W sticker on it? No.

Shortly afterwards, I started reading all the negative posts from people who NEVER owned an Ultra power supply,

Does owning it long enough to throw it away, count?

but still considered ALL Ultra power supplies total crap. I thought perhaps I made a grevious error until I started reading more and more posts from people who ACTUALLY owned this PS and were not having any issues with it.

Define "total crap". You can plug one into a system that doesn't need the claimed wattag and have it run ok for awhile, it's reasonable to do so if you occasionally check the fans. That is decidedly different from relative crap. Ultra spec'd it as a 500W PSU. That is a fixed, specific and precise quantity, a necessary target for lifespan projections. Getting one to output 1/2 that for a year, or that much for a few hours, is no evidence of the primary requirement! Funny how anyone who wants to argue about these PSU, ignore this basic fact, try to argue around it or just claim "blah blah blah lots of reviews".

Any accurately rated PSU can output the full wattage for the full duration of a MTBF rating, or if we want to be generous, we could also consider derating for 25C ambient as many consumer grade PC power supplies do. If you see a website review, no matter how dazzling and special the nonsense is, that doesn't determine whether the output wattage can be sustained long-term, their ignorance has prevented them from making any valid claim about how good the unit is. TO be fair, that alone is not evidence a PSU is bad, but rather, that it is impossible to YET claim it's good per the manufacturer rating because no valid test was performed towards that end.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: mindless1

Originally posted by: Budarow
I purchased this Ultra PS back in March of this year because it seemed to have great specs and looked REALLY good.

This is exactly where the problem with it lies. If it had been rated lower, and had better fans, suddenly it becomes more approprite for the intended use.

WHY is that anyone would believe it's evidence of anything that it outputs 500W?
Has it not occured to anyone that ANY power supply is supposed to be able to handle peaks above the labeled wattage, but that it also has to have acceptible lifespan?

See, at first I thought you were just being sarcastic. But now I realize that you're just ignorant. Not ignorant as in stupid. You're clearly not stupid. You just don't know what you're talking about here. What made you the end all authority on what power supplies publish true continuous wattage on their label and which ones publish peak?

The whole "Continuous Power" thing on the Ultra PSU's is that the PSU can sustain that wattage. It's a continuous rating. Not peak. You're right, a lot of power supplies DO in fact rate peak power output numbers on their labels. Some put both peak and continuous. So it is true that you can have a 500W that's really only worth it's weight as a 300W power supply, sure. You're correct there. But that's not the case with the Ultra. See my link where I hooked it up to the load tester? That's a 522.8W load for a full half hour. Not a quick shot at 522.8W

Here's the link again: http://www.ultraproducts.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1742&postcount=3

The other thing you have to worry about with these "max wattages" is how CLEAN the voltage is on the way up. That's my big pet peeve agaisnt the OCZ. I used to think the 520ADJ was pretty sweet for high 12V load systems, but then I started to analyze how much the drop in voltage from 0 to max and although it's within spec.. it's still more than MOST of the good PSU's out there. The other thing that sometimes happens is a lot of ripple in the voltage. I don't have an O-scope, but my load tester reads voltages true RMS and it can show voltage fluctuations faster than the human eye can see them and if I put a load on a power supply and those voltages start bouncing, even only by as little as .1V, every 1/8 or 1/4 of a second then it's failed in my book.

Originally posted by: mindless1

Right now I can take any random 300W PSU and put a static resistive load on it to make it output about 400W. Is that proof it is a 400W PSU? No. Does that mean it would OK if the manufacturer had put a 400W sticker on it? No.

You are absolutely right. And that's a good point, but again doesn't pertain to the Ultra power supply. I can put a 30A load on the 12V rail of a crappy Deer or Powmax (with a complementary load on the 3.3V and 5V too, of course.) and it'll hold up fine. I'll get that "bounce" I was talking about and the voltages will probably be below spec... but as you point out, is that acceptable? No. Is that what happens when I put such a load on the Ultra? No. So what's your point? Your point is to stay away from the uber-wattage power supplies that list max wattage claims on their sticker. Excellent point. I concur. What does that have to do with the Ultra?

 

[DJFuji]

I think i would still rather pay $70 for an Antec NeoPower than $15 for this. Because if i wanted a ~400w PSU i would stick with my Antec TruePower 350 and save the $15 plus the hassle of the rebate. Just curious Mindless1, did you read the review by Maximum PC? What exactly gave you the impression that this PSU is of lower quality? Was it something in the specs that gave it away?