mindless1
Diamond Member
- Aug 11, 2001
- 8,733
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Ultra power supplies are relabeled generic junk put into a fancier casing.
Because it's in the fancy casing and with the power lead changes, it's worth $10 more. That does make it a good deal @ $15 AR, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's sufficient for a system where you'd target a 500W PSU. In other words, there is no contest between this and most 400-500W name-brand PSU, it loses. PUtting one into a system that really only needed a decent 350W PSU then having it run for a few months is not proof of anything, not how long it'lll run nor what will hapen if/when it fails.
Because it's in the fancy casing and with the power lead changes, it's worth $10 more. That does make it a good deal @ $15 AR, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's sufficient for a system where you'd target a 500W PSU. In other words, there is no contest between this and most 400-500W name-brand PSU, it loses. PUtting one into a system that really only needed a decent 350W PSU then having it run for a few months is not proof of anything, not how long it'lll run nor what will hapen if/when it fails.
Just remember you will be dealing with TigerDirect when it comes time to do a warranty repair\replacement.
I would really like to know what generally happens when a PS fails? Do they usually just die quietly (i.e., not start up when the power button is pressed) or do they go out with a BANG (i.e., they fry up and take the mobo, video card and/or other components with them to their final resting place)?
I've had/built 5 PCs since 1998 and they are all still running fine so I have no first hand experience.
I've had/built 5 PCs since 1998 and they are all still running fine so I have no first hand experience.
Dear god I hope you're talking about the Neopower!
I might consider this PSU for a budget box, but not for anything more. Good deal for the price though, I might pick one up for a project.
ahh hadn't even thought that he might be talking aboiut the neo. I just assumed he was saying that this ultra PSU is the best 500-watt range PSU in the industry. I'm not saying the ultra is a POS but i would seriously doubt that it measures up to a PPC&C or high level Antec.
QueBert
Lifer
- Jan 6, 2002
- 22,941
- 1,138
- 126
WHO would put a PSU of this level in a budget box? I've seen maybe 20 people complain about how crappy Ultra psu's are. And I'm talking 20 who actually own one, and had problems. not the typical "Ultra is teh sux0rs!?!" people who just spout off. And I've seen hundreds of people (myself included) who love the PSU.
it's not loud,
it's powerful
it's stable
the cables are in a class of their own, the 2nd best modular cables I've seen don't even begin to compair.
how's this for a recommendation. I've had this PSU since almost the week they introduced them. I paid 100 bucks for it, it's not the windowed one, any ways. If I wanted to build another system tommorow, and Ultra suddently killed the rebate offer and I had to pay 100 bucks again. I would do it without giving it a second though. Anyone who's used one of these and doesn't think, at worse that it stacks up against other PSU's in it's price range is c r a z y.
At $100 i would buy an Antec or PPC&C. This PSU COULD be comparable to one of those, but if youre going to pay that much money, why take the risk? That's like buying a refurbished hard drive for the same price as a new one. Why risk it if there's nothing to gain from it?
mindless1
Diamond Member
- Aug 11, 2001
- 8,733
- 1,746
- 126
yes
yes
yes
The general problem is that generic PSU (including fancy ones with generic base design/origins) of 5 years ago might've claimed 250, 300W and the typical system really only needed 70-150W, and a majority of that was steady current. Today's systems (particular those with P4 prescott and gaming video cards) not only use significantly more power but drastically larger current swings. It is not enough to have a PSU that can have a 400W steady (like power resistors) test load on it, test ok. Today more than ever the recovery time matters, as do the quality of the components. "Big heatsink" or "big caps" are way to simplistic of notions to be applicable when trying to get 500W out of PS2 sized PSU on a modern system.
Too often people think about warranty, but if your PSU fails do you really want another of same thing?
Don't get me wrong, these can power a system fine, but unless someone is just following urban myths in thinking they need a PSU in the 500W neighborhood, the buyer spec'ing out a 500W PSU may (should) have a legitimate expectation that it could power a high-end system, not just a bunch of power resistors, for the entire life of that system.
I would have no reservations using this as a recplacement in an old P3 w/GF3 video box, or an old fileserver with half a dozen HDDs, but in a systm that has >=$500 worth of modern, high-current parts you would have to pay me to use this if it were free with no rebate involved. That's just me though, I don't build systems I'd expect to be thrown away in 2 or 3 years but rather what I expect will be running 10 years from now providing they're dusted out occasionally.
there are a few components i will absolutely not scrimp on in terms of quality: PSU, RAM, and UI peripherals. Stability always takes precedence in my book.
Well...I'm going to use my 500W Ultra for a while and if I don't have any issues, I'm going to buy another one if the price is right and the specs DO NOT change (i.e., they continue to rebadge Youngyear PS with 34A on the 12-Volt rail).
Just my 2cts on this power supply:
I have had one running in my rig for the last 9 months without any issues.
It is fairly quite, stays very cool, and the modular cables are great. It allows you to only use what you need, and the install is very clean (by the way, my connections to all my devices are fairly tight, no loose connectors here).
I wish all power supplies had that type of connectors.
Now for the system it is powering:
My system is not the top of the line, but still runs great and is stable as a rock:
Abit AC7 max3
P4 3ghz running at 3.15ghz
2gb of Kingston hyperX 4000 (4x512mb)
Nvidia 6800gt flashed to ultra running at 400/1100
Lite on DVD/cd burner
NEC DVD player CD burner combo
On board sound and Ethernet
3 x WD 160gb SATA
Case is a LianLI P60 with window and has 4 fans
All USB ports are in use (mouse, Saitek X45, HP8150 printer, USB camera, Sony Photo Printer and sony camera docking station, ATA 160gb back-up drive in USB2 enclosure, etc.)
This is the load on that power supply and so far so good.
Also some one asked if the mobo power cable would be long enough for the full tower Antec case, the answer is yes.
This is certainly not a top of the line power supply, but for the money (I paid $70 after rebate 9 months ago) and the modular cables as well as my personal experience with it so far, I would recommend it.
Of course, I do not know what the extra load would be for the latest AMD's/P4's and 7800gt's. I hope to find that out early next year if "boss man" thinks i did a god job this year and give some extra Xmas bonus $'s.
)
I have had one running in my rig for the last 9 months without any issues.
It is fairly quite, stays very cool, and the modular cables are great. It allows you to only use what you need, and the install is very clean (by the way, my connections to all my devices are fairly tight, no loose connectors here).
I wish all power supplies had that type of connectors.
Now for the system it is powering:
My system is not the top of the line, but still runs great and is stable as a rock:
Abit AC7 max3
P4 3ghz running at 3.15ghz
2gb of Kingston hyperX 4000 (4x512mb)
Nvidia 6800gt flashed to ultra running at 400/1100
Lite on DVD/cd burner
NEC DVD player CD burner combo
On board sound and Ethernet
3 x WD 160gb SATA
Case is a LianLI P60 with window and has 4 fans
All USB ports are in use (mouse, Saitek X45, HP8150 printer, USB camera, Sony Photo Printer and sony camera docking station, ATA 160gb back-up drive in USB2 enclosure, etc.)
This is the load on that power supply and so far so good.
Also some one asked if the mobo power cable would be long enough for the full tower Antec case, the answer is yes.
This is certainly not a top of the line power supply, but for the money (I paid $70 after rebate 9 months ago) and the modular cables as well as my personal experience with it so far, I would recommend it.
Of course, I do not know what the extra load would be for the latest AMD's/P4's and 7800gt's. I hope to find that out early next year if "boss man" thinks i did a god job this year and give some extra Xmas bonus $'s.
)
Googer
Lifer
- Nov 11, 2004
- 12,576
- 7
- 81
- Yes He is smoking, just like the ULTRA X power supply does under heavy load.
Here is the Article from this months Maximum PC, I have taken the time to copy it verbatim.
ULTRA PRODUCTS X-Connect
A sexy-looking power supply with and ugly disposition
The Ultra X-Connect is like a bad first date. It?s sleek, intricate fan grille and shiny silver finish are immediately impressive, but after about 20 minutes, it clearly comes up short on inner beauty.
Ultra claims the X-Connect can continuously deliver 500 watts of power, but our load test proved otherwise. Everything seemed fine at first, with the X-Connect typically drawing around 350 watts from the outlet. But a few Minutes into the test, we witnessed extreme artifacting in 3Dmark03- a sign of an unclean power stream. At times, a few moving white lines were all that could be seen on an otherwise black screen. Soon thereafter, the power supply started to emit a strange and rather worrisome burning smell.
Concerned we immediately closed 3Dmark03 and shut down the computer, noticing that the Windows Desktop was also badly distorted. After letting the X-Connect cool off for a few minutes, we re-booted and the graphical distortion had vanished. Fire extinguishers in hand we tried running the load test a second time and quickly reproduced our earlier results.
In the voltage sag test*, the X-Connect was a mixed bag. We measured an initial voltage of 12.57v on the 12 volt power rail- the biggest deviation of any PSU in this roundup, and dangerously close to the 12.6v maximum tolerance of the ATX spec. It?s conceivable this could damage cheap or poorly designed hardware over time. On the other hand when we dropped the input voltage to 60v, the X-Connect maintained an output voltage of 11.54v. that?s high enough to avert a system crash.
The X-Connect ships with sturdy shielded power cables that glow under UV light, and extra cables can be disconnected to reduce case clutter. But active power factor correction- the ability to smooth out distortions in the current being drawn from your wall outlet- is absent, and the Ultra?s power factor rating of 63 percent is was the lowest of the round up.
MAXIMUM PC VERDICT- 4
+ CLASSIC ROCK
Sturdy, modular shielded cables and exceptional fit and finish.
-ELECTRIC SHOCK
Poor voltage accuracy, no active power factor correction, and it failed our load test.
$100, www.ultraproducts.com
© 2004/2005 Maximum PC
Article Summary
The only other product to be have failed the test was Vantec Stealth VAN-520A. Both PSU?s were beaten by a generic no name 400 watt PSU. All PSU?s were tested in the same manner using the same equipment. Some passed while others failed. Only PC Power and Cooling could maintain a PFC Rating of 98% and a consitant 12.08 volts no matter what the conditions were during these tests, Most of the other Makers fell short of these marks.
Conclusion if you want the ultra don?t waste your money, get a $35 generic special the can out perform
Ultra X-Connect. Pure Gimmick if you ask me, so don?t be fooled.
mindless1
Diamond Member
- Aug 11, 2001
- 8,733
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It does not have 34A on the 12V rail, that is merely a peak rating similar to how you'll see peak ratings of 200W on $4 computer speakers. Decent name-brand PSU rate for sustained current rather than peak.
THAT is part of the problem, that one cannot use the labeled specs to detemine long-term viability.
Googer
Lifer
- Nov 11, 2004
- 12,576
- 7
- 81
They never give a bad review on that website, those clowns do not know what they are doing because everything they test gets a recomendation and nothing is ever of poor quality. Extremeoverclocking.com is way too manufacturer friendly. Every PSU review I read gets their crummy seal of aproval.
Before I bought my Ultra X-Connect I read no less than 5 reviews at decent reviewer web-sites and they pretty much said the 500 Watt Ultra did NOT drop to less than acceptable power levels both under a load and at idle. There are no less than 12 reviews on decent web-sites if you care to read up on the Ultra X-Connect 500 Watt units.
I don't know if these PS' will last for 100,000 hours of use, but the reviewer sites seem to give the unit lots of compliments.
I have that Maximum PC issue. They tested the PSUs under EXTREME conditions, simulating NOTHING in reality. So if a PSU fails in that test, that doesn't mean it's crap, it means it's not as good as those that didn't fail the test.
Googer
Lifer
- Nov 11, 2004
- 12,576
- 7
- 81
They conducted a stress test, that is something that is rarely done on review websites. The most review sites ever do is plug it in and take measurements. They never put a load on the PSU. In the Maximum PC Article only a Handfull of PSU's passed like ANTEC, PC Power and Cooling, and a generic Unit; all other PSU's failed the test.
mindless1
Diamond Member
- Aug 11, 2001
- 8,733
- 1,746
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Testing methodology means everything. Even the worst PSU out there can have a large static load on it and run for a few hours or days. if a aystem were like a stick of chewing gum to be spit into the garbage after one use, that'd be fine. PSU requirements are that it last for the entire viable life of the system, and not damage parts in the interim.
I throw out dozens of generic PSU every year from custoemrs. They ran for awhile- longer than a reviwer tests. They then die, sometimes taking other parts with them. False economy since even a self-labeled elite gamer that upgrades every year would have a little resale value in a box if it still ran- it still needs a PSU and will easily cost enough to offset any initial savings seen with the generic.
Ultra PSU ARE generics. Take a generic, put it in a fancy case and send it to a bunch of reviewers known to not do rigourous long-term testing. Great cost-effective marketing strategy! Poor way to pick a PSU.
SMPS tech is quite mature. There is always basic criteria for making choices, including transformer size, core type, 'fet type, AC filtration, monitoring and feedback circuit, output filtration. Seeing a review where review says something like "heatsink size" or "big caps" is a very strong indication they have only a vague idea what they're talking about. It seems like they are assessing it but are actually ignoring the crucial details. For example (only a brief one, I'm not trying to write a review here) a heatsink's primary requirement is not that it branches out like a flower at the far end, it's the thickness and conduction at the contact to the parts. With caps, a big cheap generic cap is actually worse than a smaller one as the construction is prone to failure.
How many reviewers even bother to rate the capacity of the transformer itself? That is among the most primary and necessary requirements of a PSU that has sufficiently low recovery time to support modern parts with high amperage current changes.
We see reviews doing only irrelvant tests- 1) Artificial/static full load 2) Dynamic load far below rated wattage. Neither is sufficient to test a "so-called" 500W PSU. 3) Hours or days of testing, not long term. If you bought a car and it drove for a week before breaking, is it considered a good car? How about a year, if it has to go to the junk yard after a year was it a good car? Two years? 3? Similar situation, any decent PSU should be expected to run for a decade with nothing but periodic dust removal if the environment mandates it. If a PSU is able to run when clean and brand new, that is no evidence it's suitable for use long term.
Basically this means you can only DISQUALIFY a PSU based on a review(s), NOT qualify one.
Googer
Lifer
- Nov 11, 2004
- 12,576
- 7
- 81
Very well said.
All it takes is one review to find an electrical fault or weakness in the PSU and then it is diqualified. And by weakness I do not mean a smudge in the chrome or an led that is the wrong colour. Those are BS things that add cost, so they can add these things to a PSU the maker will cut corners where it really matters- Capacitors, Transformers, resistors, and low gague wire, etc.
Another Gimmick is the second fan that sits under the PSU. They are simply ineffective and just take up space that could otherwise be used by higher quality and higher capicty components. PC Power and Cooling does not use a "belly fan", Leds, Alien Laser Beams, Chorme, etc because these things do not improve quality.
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