Miramonti
Lifer
- Aug 26, 2000
- 28,653
- 100
- 106
Originally posted by: Millenium
I hope he made it.
N8magic mentioned the near the top of this thread, the night before yesterday, that it was already trading that evening at $.20, so if you called yesterday, and your broker can do transactions before the markets open (which is unlikely because there isn't really a "time and sales" then, which brokers rely on to protect themselves from their customers who aren't happy with trade executions), the most you would have gotten is between .10 and .20.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,784
- 6,343
- 126
Unless I'm not aware of some tax right off or something(quite possible), why even bothering to sell a now worthless stock? Will you even recover enough to pay your transaction fee? I'd keep them on the slim chance that someone else will buy up the company or that the company restructures itself under new management.
Tax writeoff. If you are in the 28% tax bracket and lose a $1000 on Worldcom stock you could deduct $280 from the amount of tax you owe on your federal tax return. Of course with it this low, people might as well see what happens with the bankruptcy.
Problem is I don't know if my broker sold it yet or not. If he hasn't I think I will see if there is a class action suit or money from the bankruptcy.
Originally posted by: Ramsnake
Originally posted by: Mavrick007
It's not like they can misplace $4 billion dollars. It's that they mis-accounted their expenses as a capital expenditure.
They basically accounted their operating expenses as an investment so that they didn't have to pay as much tax and so that it looked like they made more but in fact they lost money, big time.
Anyone could make this mistake right?
But even a first year business major could tell that you don't amortize expenses over many years as an investment.
They are normal operating expenses.
Heh Heads are gonna roll!
thanks for the post, cleared up some things ,thats what i had in mind too.... the loss of 50 billion dollars posted by AOL-TW was also due to kinda similiar superficial accounting where you are expected to earn 50 billion in the next fiscal year but didnt so you had a 50 billion loss in the fiscal year
...wasnt it?
I'm not familiar with the AOL-TW loss.. but if you inflate projections that do not adhere to GAAP then people will think it's a good safe investment and it will drive up stock prices. This could be done in many different ways, you could defer expenses til the next fiscal and therefore would have lots more liquidity in cash so it would look like your assets would be higher but when you go to pay them off, they will actually be lower and could contribute to a loss.
There's so many tricky practices in the business world that it's a surprise the stock market can actually stay afloat.
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Oh wow, bummer. Sorry about that.
OK, I feel sorry for investors and non-marketing employees.
How's that? Seriously, that sucks that you lost your investment.
No problem. It sucks because the stock was in a trust and I didn't know I owned the stock until the trading had been frozen. Hopefully there will be some type of bankruptcy, buyout or lawsuit. If that fails I can take maybe 25-30% of my loss off of my taxes. I am going to have a big tax loss anyways. The market being as it is has made me lose a fair sum. I am in the market for the long run so I will wait this stuff out. I just feel uncofmortable and would like to transfer any telco,tech sector, or communications stock into bonds. Bonds from the U.S. treasury would probably be my best bet.
I used to work there too and I'm watching all my old coworkers drop like flies! They're expected to layoff 17k people today...
Once again industry deregulation leads to catastrophe, and it will be the taxpayers who float the bill. Meanwhile as TENS of thousands of Worldcom employees lose their livelihood, the executive perpetrators who have already made millions will largely get away scott free, accept for a few patsy scapegoats.
remember regain and the airline traffic control fiasco (still dealing with repercussions)
how about bank deregulation ----> S&L scandal - BTW Dubya's brother was the captain of that sinking boat - Silverado. not the governor brother that gave him the election, the fed penitentiary brother.
energy deregulation and privatizing utilities ---> enron
telecom deregulation ---> worldcom
I could go on, but you get the point. My admittedly cheap shot at Guiligan - er I mean Bush notwithstanding, you can't really simply blame the president on watch. for example Clinton dealt mostly with a Republican controlled congress AND senate when much of the telecom deregulation was passed. Though I believe he saw the writing on the wall and was in favor of much of it. It is often unfair to blame gov't policy for subsequent abuses, but some blame must be laid down, because this seems to happen overtime. Lets face it, the basis of the "free market" system is greed. 99.9% of the time people are lawful and try to be ethical, but we always pay hard for that tiny group of white collar criminals who are no better than drug czars when you consider the impact it has. Think about how many people are impacted by a huge economic hit. Almost everyone. Anyway after the shock and finger pointing is over we need to find constructive ways to improve the system so that abuses are less likely, but innovation and entrepreneurial activity isn't overly inhibited...
And now we?re privatizing out public schools. Yeah great ? so now if a student is to expensive to maximize profits we downsize them? Oh wait ? we can just hire AA to cook the books
This is going to cripple an already hurting telecom industry. This is bad for CISCO, Verizon, basically everyone because so many telecom companies are carrying so much debt, but there is such a glut of capacity (supply). And tech is pretty reliant on telecom. This sucks!
Food for trash (not thought)
remember regain and the airline traffic control fiasco (still dealing with repercussions)
how about bank deregulation ----> S&L scandal - BTW Dubya's brother was the captain of that sinking boat - Silverado. not the governor brother that gave him the election, the fed penitentiary brother.
energy deregulation and privatizing utilities ---> enron
telecom deregulation ---> worldcom
I could go on, but you get the point. My admittedly cheap shot at Guiligan - er I mean Bush notwithstanding, you can't really simply blame the president on watch. for example Clinton dealt mostly with a Republican controlled congress AND senate when much of the telecom deregulation was passed. Though I believe he saw the writing on the wall and was in favor of much of it. It is often unfair to blame gov't policy for subsequent abuses, but some blame must be laid down, because this seems to happen overtime. Lets face it, the basis of the "free market" system is greed. 99.9% of the time people are lawful and try to be ethical, but we always pay hard for that tiny group of white collar criminals who are no better than drug czars when you consider the impact it has. Think about how many people are impacted by a huge economic hit. Almost everyone. Anyway after the shock and finger pointing is over we need to find constructive ways to improve the system so that abuses are less likely, but innovation and entrepreneurial activity isn't overly inhibited...
And now we?re privatizing out public schools. Yeah great ? so now if a student is to expensive to maximize profits we downsize them? Oh wait ? we can just hire AA to cook the books
This is going to cripple an already hurting telecom industry. This is bad for CISCO, Verizon, basically everyone because so many telecom companies are carrying so much debt, but there is such a glut of capacity (supply). And tech is pretty reliant on telecom. This sucks!
Food for trash (not thought)
OatMan, you list trends but give no specifics as to how they directly caused these events.
I'm saddened so many will lose their jobs, even more their pensions and even more their investments. The velvet asses responsible for cooking the books should do hard time for life. But to simplistically blame everything in sight isn't doing anybody any good.
I'm saddened so many will lose their jobs, even more their pensions and even more their investments. The velvet asses responsible for cooking the books should do hard time for life. But to simplistically blame everything in sight isn't doing anybody any good.
This is incorrect. If the government didn't have its head up its ass there wouldn't be a huge public outcry for education reform. They've screwed it up and now it's up to us to fix it and keep it fixed once and for all.
Miramonti
Lifer
- Aug 26, 2000
- 28,653
- 100
- 106
I feel like a freakin idiot. My neighbor was talking to me about stocks and he owns a whole bunch including cisco and also wcom. He said he wants to sell wcom (at $1.5-2) because its gone down so much but wasn't as interested in selling the others.
I chastised him because I thought selling the others would reduce his risk much more, since they can still go down much further. Then this news comes out and he loses all that was left of his worldcom investment.
I chastised him because I thought selling the others would reduce his risk much more, since they can still go down much further. Then this news comes out and he loses all that was left of his worldcom investment.
from an email i just got from my uncle (a worldcom employee):
At least he still has a job... for now.
At least he still has a job... for now.
Queasy
Moderator<br>Console Gaming
- Aug 24, 2001
- 31,796
- 2
- 0
On my way to my old job yesterday (where I was laid-off a week and a half ago), I passed by two MCI Worldcom offices. Lots of people leaving for a non-lunch-hour-time-of-day and none looked happy. This kind of put me in a downer mood because of the fact that I worked for a telecoms company and am looking for a job in a now very flooded Atlanta job market.
It is amazing how when I came out of college 4 years ago the IT job section of the paper took a couple of pages or more. Now, it only takes up a couple of columns.
It is amazing how when I came out of college 4 years ago the IT job section of the paper took a couple of pages or more. Now, it only takes up a couple of columns.
Queasy
Moderator<br>Console Gaming
- Aug 24, 2001
- 31,796
- 2
- 0
=================================================================================
Anyway after the shock and finger pointing is over we need to find constructive ways to improve the system so that abuses are less likely, but innovation and entrepreneurial activity isn't overly inhibited...
=================================================================================
While I disagree with what you said concerning deregulation (I put more faith in free enterprise than the government) I do agree with you here. There needs to be a reform of GAAP and SEC enforcement to prevent rogue corporate executives from cooking books. Those responsible for cooking the books also need to be a) Fined heavily and b) Share a jail cell with Bubba.
=================================================================================
And now we?re privatizing out public schools. Yeah great ? so now if a student is to expensive to maximize profits we downsize them? Oh wait ? we can just hire AA to cook the books.
=================================================================================
Ask those students and parents that were locked into a horribly failing inner city school system in Cleveland how they feel about school vouchers. I'm sure they'll tell you it is a Godsend (oops, can I still say that?). That particular school system failed every applicable standard. Now, the parents can move their children from a school where the average 9th grader was functionally illiterate to a public or private school of their choice and allow their child to get an education.
Anyway after the shock and finger pointing is over we need to find constructive ways to improve the system so that abuses are less likely, but innovation and entrepreneurial activity isn't overly inhibited...
=================================================================================
While I disagree with what you said concerning deregulation (I put more faith in free enterprise than the government) I do agree with you here. There needs to be a reform of GAAP and SEC enforcement to prevent rogue corporate executives from cooking books. Those responsible for cooking the books also need to be a) Fined heavily and b) Share a jail cell with Bubba.
=================================================================================
And now we?re privatizing out public schools. Yeah great ? so now if a student is to expensive to maximize profits we downsize them? Oh wait ? we can just hire AA to cook the books.
=================================================================================
Ask those students and parents that were locked into a horribly failing inner city school system in Cleveland how they feel about school vouchers. I'm sure they'll tell you it is a Godsend (oops, can I still say that?). That particular school system failed every applicable standard. Now, the parents can move their children from a school where the average 9th grader was functionally illiterate to a public or private school of their choice and allow their child to get an education.
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