uh oh... found a bug in the powerline networking protocols... Who do I report to?

[The Stigenator]

Uh oh.... I think I found a HUGE bug in the protocol used for powerline networking. I've got to investigate a bit more, but turns out I have somehow connected to a neighbor's network even though I have set a different encryption and home network by pairing it.

So here is the problem.

My network at home runs a 192.168.10.x series IP block using TWC Cable. My neighbor (not sure which one yet) runs a 192.168.1.x block using ATT DSL.

I bought a TPLink Powerline networking device to extend my internet to stuff downstairs. Its plug and play, so thats what I thought. Turns out, its a bit more than plug and play. I had it connected to a different outlet yesterday and it saw MY (192.168.10.x) network no problems on the media device. Everything looked hunky dory except it kept cutting out periodically. This evening I moved the downstairs unit to another outlet due to intermittent connectivity problems, which went away on the 2nd outlet. All was good and devices were getting internet until I hooked up the laptop to configure something and realized I wasnt on my 192.168.10.x series but on a neighbors 192.168.1.x

The bigger issue, I can actually see / ping / tracert / connect via windows shares to my 192.168.10.x over IPV6. So the media shares are now on visible on the 192.168.1.x network over IPV6 and windows share even though I am not on MY 192.168.10.x series network.

This is happening because MY upstairs unit is connected to the local router, but the downstairs one somehow has paired to the neighbour's unit (from which a windows machine of mine is connected currently - hence the discovery)

I am going to try change my network login pairing ID on MY two IP devices so they dont pair with his units, but technically we dont share a power line. We have independent billing which means it should isolate my unit at the meter, the main complex gets one line from LADWP which splits. I can see this being a problem in a apartment complexes. But I live in a town house complex (similar but different)

I still dont understand how I am able to ping / connect via IPV6 to MY network when sitting on a different IPV4 network. I cant scan MY IPV4 network but can ping MY IPV6 network upstairs from his IPV4 connection. I thought the IP Numbers of IPV6 had more security.

Am I missing something? I hope my explanation helps.

 

[Railgun]

It's an old issue. Enabling encryption should ensure your devices only connect to your devices.

 

[The Stigenator]

encryption was enabled. That is what is bugging me. I will play around more after a few hours of sleep. I was trying to debug it and now its 6am. I need some sleep before i figure out why its doing that.

I figured out which neighbor I am connected to now. I'll check with them in the morning to see if they have a same brand unit at their house. He is going to be mighty surprised.

 

[mikeymikec]

Maybe you're both using the same units. Maybe you both power cycled them within the window of negotiation?

 

[Gryz]

Encyption was enabled. But did you configure passwords your devices ? If both your devices and your neighbor's device use the same (default) configuration and (default) passwords, no wonder they think they are one and the same network.

I think you have too little information to report a bug in the protocols itself. A good start would be to contact the support people of the company that made those devices. I bet they can tell you how to configure their products so that you'll get a separate logical network from your neighbor.

 

[ArisVer]

A friend of mine tried to share a connection with the house next to him and could not.
Apparently they detect the exact frequency of the power line which is (usually) different from house to house.
Personally I am experiencing some problems in the same house with a different power board (my room has a separate power board than the rest of the house, the wall unit with the fuses I mean, not the plug power board). But it could be from my computer or the modem which the adapters are connected to. I found out that wireless is better than these adapters even though they are handy for quick connections.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Makes sense as you are probably all on the same transformer. Also if these reset in any kind of way based on power cycling a power bump could then cause all units in the same neighbourhood to reset at same time and all negotiate with each other.

Come to think of it, how do these work when it comes to UPSes? Will they work when plugged in a UPS or does the square wave wreck havoc with them if power goes out? Not to mention the relays probably cut them out of the rest of the electrical network. Or do they have two power plugs, one for actual power and one for network?

 

[Emulex]

you aren't supposed to plug them into anything but the wall, any kind of filtering reduces bandwidth greatly!

 

[Red Squirrel]

you aren't supposed to plug them into anything but the wall, any kind of filtering reduces bandwidth greatly!

That's what I figured, how would one prevent power bumps from taking the network down though? I guess that's why you use ethernet devices and take the extra effort to run proper network wiring.

 

[Emulex]

Ask the manufacturer, you would hope their product can supress surges natively and not push them through the ethernet network!

 

[azazel1024]

Other than noise, the square wave should not impact the powerline networking.

Powerline works roughly in the 60-80MHz frequency range, your power is running at 50/60Hz.

What you may have with power CONDITIONING UPS, is that it will effectively filter out the powerline adapters if you have one on a UPS. If it is a regular standby, it would likely work fine (of course until the UPS kicks in, in which case it is disconnected from the power wiring until power is restored to the mains). Conditioning UPS though will likely screw it.

 

[Red Squirrel]

(of course until the UPS kicks in, in which case it is disconnected from the power wiring until power is restored to the mains).

Which would defeat the purpose because the network would go down when the power goes out. So what I'm thinking could be happening in the OP's case is if the power flickers then all these units on the same transformer go into a renegotiate mode, and for some reason they're all negotiating together as one network.

 

[Emulex]

No the units have a pre-shared key, only when you press the button long enough does it go into WPS mode to mate with other units. upon power restore it does not go into mating mode!