UCLA Alumni group pays $100 to students who expose biased liberal faculty members

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: magomago
Syringer, as an Anteater I tell you how can you expect a class without a political slant of a sort? The obvious ones are those who just sit there and literally "lambast Republicans" while "glorifying Democrats"....that becomes a problem~ but I haven't come across any professor that does this. Granted, I'm doing an engineering major but I sit in on a few humanities/sociology classes to get an idea what is going on.
But politicial opinion covers many walks of life...in fact I would say politicial opinion is just a person's views applied to a government. Those views could be values, morals, whatever you feel like, but to teach a class as a "dummy" is extremely ridiculous and would be short changing us as students.

If there are problems where teachers literally failed students for papers that were well defended, and had a strong factual base then there is something that should be done. MUCH of what is taught in college (especially OUTSIDE the sciences) is subjective; I'm visiting a religions class for fun and today she brought up three (Well i forgot the last 😉 Like I said I just drop in and dont take these for units) methods that sociologist use to analyze society: functionalism and conflict theory. Functionalism basically stated everything in society has a purpose and does some good, whereas conflict theory states that things in society are used to oppress the proleteriat (it was Marx who developed Conflict theory 😉 Btw Soc majors don't burn me because I know its a major simplication).
The professor talked about conflict theory a little bit more than functionalism... Does that mean the professor is a commie ready to indoctrinate us? Does that mean the professor is a left leaning liberal who doesn't fear god? But clearly I can see some of her biases as she talks to us about the material (though she does a very good job overall to maintain the level of respect necessary for a religion class). Does that mean the class is not worth it?
Heck, even if a teacher was very left leaning and horrible, I would think that those who write essays against their own personal views are benefiting themselves because they understand how the other side thinks and can now penetrate and break down their arguments!

If you truly want no bias in a college atmosphere (right or left leaning) don't go to college. I really can't think of where (outside maybe theoretical mathematics) a bias will not enter. What is next? Enviornmental Engineering is a "liberal major" full of lies and junk science?

Professors who are interested in bashing another side should be given a talk. But if that professor has their own OPINION, and their OPINION has the basis of facts, then by all means go ahead. If it was a good professor though, they would present the opinions of both sides based on the facts, and then pick a side 😉

IF the paper is supposed to be on say the benifits of socialism and your well defended, and had a strong factual base paper was on anything but the benifits of socialism then you should fail.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Is it because conservatives don't value education and are constantly trying to cut funding for it, or is it because they are greedy and wouldn't want to work for the lower pay in academia?

Or as the old saying goes...those who can, DO...those who can't, TEACH.

Broad generalizations and pot shots are not contributing to the discussion...how can you say that conservatives don't value education, when many entrepreneurs, CEOs and white collared Republicans used higher education to achieve career success.

It also has nothing to do with greed...academia is not for everyone...some people enjoy teaching and conducting research in their related fields...others are better at working with people, and applying academic principles in a real world environment.

Both are necessary, and both attract people who are simply wired differently.

Also, where are the fancy private jets?

If you think academia is without its own perks, you are gravely mistaken.

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: Syringer
As a Bruin I'm not really sure how I feel about this. Being a math/econ major I haven't been really exposed to too many history/polisci classes, but the few that I have been in and from what I hear from others there is, like many other universities I'm sure, a very strong left wing agenda put forth from many professors.

I am assisting with an introductory economics course where the (socialist) lecturer is running a war against economists and to a lesser extent republicans. He sometimes gives the students work to do which involves following through his particular line of thinking on an issue, so if anyone has a different view he would have to disagree with the questions (easy to do, but no marks for it!) and not answer them. And this is at a top notch university where you would expect independent thinking to be encouraged.

 

[mect]

There was a news report awhile back about a liberal political science professor who hung a right leaning article on his door because of all the left leaning articles other professors had posted. He was asked within a few days to remove the article because professors are not allowed to promote political agendas with their office space. None of the other professors were asked to remove their materials. While the article didn't even support his views, he just wanted to expose the double standard of the university. I never did hear if anything ever came of that.

In reply to Starbuck, I don't think that is the case. At least at the major universities, almost all faculty are very competent. I think the liberal mentality more leads people to desire to be involved in academics, where there is much more freedom to pursue interests where ever they lead. In business, if something isn't worthwhile, it is abandoned. There isn't the interest in understanding for the sake of understanding, at least not to near the same degree. I think it is just this different mentallity that leads more conservative people to business/industry and more liberal people to academia.

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: magomago
So I have a question: When is criticism allowed? Should all presidents be scared ground? Especially in something like SOCIOLOGY, where the government is such an important topic, it is impossible to actually learn about sociology without letting all kinds of this stuff filter through.

Criticism should be allowed in its proper sense where it relates to the subject matter of the course. The expression of a point of view does not encourage criticism. I would suggest that "indoctrination" should be avoided and argument encouraged. But the question of which presidents are good and which are bad is hardly a fit subject for any university course, even sociology, unless the stereotypes about sociologists held by more scientifically minded people are entirely correct.

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: mectI think the liberal mentality more leads people to desire to be involved in academics, where there is much more freedom to pursue interests where ever they lead. In business, if something isn't worthwhile, it is abandoned. There isn't the interest in understanding for the sake of understanding, at least not to near the same degree. I think it is just this different mentallity that leads more conservative people to business/industry and more liberal people to academia.

An interesting explanation. The picture of universities is a little too flattering - the desire to understand is not normally very strong, overcome by other pressures. Though you might expect a sense of respect for academics and academic work to be present or have been present.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Is it because conservatives don't value education and are constantly trying to cut funding for it, or is it because they are greedy and wouldn't want to work for the lower pay in academia?

Or as the old saying goes...those who can, DO...those who can't, TEACH.

Broad generalizations and pot shots are not contributing to the discussion...how can you say that conservatives don't value education, when many entrepreneurs, CEOs and white collared Republicans used higher education to achieve career success.

It also has nothing to do with greed...academia is not for everyone...some people enjoy teaching and conducting research in their related fields...others are better at working with people, and applying academic principles in a real world environment.

Both are necessary, and both attract people who are simply wired differently.

Also, where are the fancy private jets?

If you think academia is without its own perks, you are gravely mistaken.

Maybe I was being simplistic, but you have to admit Republicans have shown a lot of hostility towards public education, especially higher education. Remember when Sec. of Education Bill Bennet tried to eliminate the dept. of Education. School vouchers are aimed at wrecking the public schools and at the same time aiding religious schools.
The recent spending reductions in congress affecting student loans.
Here in California the republicans have prevented any kind of tax increases and so they have increased student fees dramatically the past couple of years.
Republicans support higher education, at the primarily white, upper class, ivy league schools.
I don't think it is bias, there is some cultural reason why they aren't a lot right-wing professors.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Maybe I was being simplistic, but you have to admit Republicans have shown a lot of hostility towards public education, especially higher education. Remember when Sec. of Education Bill Bennet tried to eliminate the dept. of Education. School vouchers are aimed at wrecking the public schools and at the same time aiding religious schools.
The recent spending reductions in congress affecting student loans. Here in California the republicans have prevented any kind of tax increases and so they have increased student fees dramatically the past couple of years. Republicans support higher education, at the primarily white, upper class, ivy league schools.

You make some valid points, but I think there is a distinction between public schools and higher education. On the public school front, there is no doubt a problem with the system. I do not approve of the voucher system, but I haven't seen the Democrats come up with many viable solutions either. Teachers are part of the problem, as teacher unions tend to fight any efforts to hold them accountable for the performance of their students. Similarly, schools are all but handicapped in dealing with problem children or protecting the classroom for fear of lawsuits. Across all of these issues is a lack of funding, but school districts rarely garner community support for tax increases to promote education. Not to mention resistance against metrics or standardized testing to measure student performance...again, a parental issue.

In terms of higher education, there is no doubt that the cost of attaining a college degree is becoming increasingly expensive...I partially blame the universities for these cost increases...not to mention that a college degree is not necessarily enough to gain social momentum...to get ahead, it often involves graduate school or other specialized training to break into the white collar world...perhaps the system is not fair, but I have yet to encounter any program that would provide and assure higher education for everyone.

I don't think it is bias, there is some cultural reason why they aren't a lot right-wing professors.

Professors are certainly entitled to their own political slant...there are even scenarios where it is appropriate for them to inject their own worldview into the classroom...however, I have certainly encountered professors who were partisan to the point of being obnoxious or biased in terms of how they treated the students who are essentially paying their salaries. It undermines the system and does not speak very highly of their professionalism.

 

[TraumaRN]

Just a common sense thought, if you take a poli sci or philosophy class in a university, wouldn't you expect the profs to be somewhat bias left or right??

Or what about my nursing professors who more or less tell me to sit down and shut up when i attempt to bring a dissenting and/or differing opinion on how to take care of a patient in a given situation? Should they be remanded for that?

Really I think this whole argument in general is silly, it just sounds like people who feel trapped by the system and seek some way to lash out against for better or worse, left or right side of the fence. People know that if they b!tch enough that people will listen or waffle to their demands or something like that. And I think at the base of all this, that is the case.

Who cares if your professor is left or right leaning, how hard is it to either find another professor(hint: www.ratemyprofessor.com) or switch out of the class, switch universities or heaven forbid swallow your pride and do whats necessary to pass the class...It wont kill you honestly! Remember we arent in some dictatorship we have choices in this country and in our lives...

 

[Starbuck1975]

Who cares if your professor is left or right leaning, how hard is it to either find another professor(hint: www.ratemyprofessor.com) or switch out of the class, switch universities or heaven forbid swallow your pride and do whats necessary to pass the class...It wont kill you honestly! Remember we arent in some dictatorship we have choices in this country and in our lives...

I agree with everything you say with the exception of this point...as a paying student, I am entitled to the education into which I have made an investment...my own political biases and opinions should not be relevant for how professors evaluate my performance.

In the example you gave for nurses, there really isn't much room for debate in terms of accepted medical procedures...similarly, a Civil Engineering student is not going to debate the professor on the tested laws of physics in designing a structure...the more fluid social sciences are usually where these problems arise, and it often involves the clashing of egos between student and professor.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Is it because conservatives don't value education and are constantly trying to cut funding for it, or is it because they are greedy and wouldn't want to work for the lower pay in academia?

Or as the old saying goes...those who can, DO...those who can't, TEACH.

Bullshit.

In realms of higher education those who DO are actually the ones who TEACH. Perhaps this red herring is remotely applicable to high school and community college, but once you get to something like Tier 1 universities, none of those people made it in because of their inadequacies.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Who cares if your professor is left or right leaning, how hard is it to either find another professor(hint: www.ratemyprofessor.com) or switch out of the class, switch universities or heaven forbid swallow your pride and do whats necessary to pass the class...It wont kill you honestly! Remember we arent in some dictatorship we have choices in this country and in our lives...

I agree with everything you say with the exception of this point...as a paying student, I am entitled to the education into which I have made an investment...my own political biases and opinions should not be relevant for how professors evaluate my performance.

In the example you gave for nurses, there really isn't much room for debate in terms of accepted medical procedures...similarly, a Civil Engineering student is not going to debate the professor on the tested laws of physics in designing a structure...the more fluid social sciences are usually where these problems arise, and it often involves the clashing of egos between student and professor.

I agree with you, it does suck sometimes that you pay so much money to be bent over like that....and as far as my nursing example, often times in medicine and nursing(they are very different but thats a different topic) but either way there are often more than one way to do things and often times it just takes a good argument to sway my profs...however obviously this isnt the case when it comes to politics. But again I agree with your point that you made.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Is it because conservatives don't value education and are constantly trying to cut funding for it, or is it because they are greedy and wouldn't want to work for the lower pay in academia?

Or as the old saying goes...those who can, DO...those who can't, TEACH.

Bullshit.

In realms of higher education those who DO are actually the ones who TEACH. Perhaps this red herring is remotely applicable to high school and community college, but once you get to something like Tier 1 universities, none of those people made it in because of their inadequacies.

Take a law professor for example. Instead of trying to practice law out in the real world, why not just sit behind a desk, teach, and grade papers? Why not also complain about America and force a liberal agenda upon the students? Besides, a lawyer's dirty. But a law professor at a University holds the status of an intellectual mastermind everyone will respect.

 

[Starbuck1975]

In realms of higher education those who DO are actually the ones who TEACH. Perhaps this red herring is remotely applicable to high school and community college, but once you get to something like Tier 1 universities, none of those people made it in because of their inadequacies.

Calm down Meuge...I made that statement to illustrate the fallacy in making broad generalizations about educators and working professionals.

However, it is no secret that many of the best and brightest academics would last all of ten seconds in corporate America...and similarly, many who find success in the business world simply cannot produce within an academic environment. Likewise, you have some who can cross seamlessly between both worlds.

 

[PatboyX]

i think they would have more of a lever if they were not offering money.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

In realms of higher education those who DO are actually the ones who TEACH. Perhaps this red herring is remotely applicable to high school and community college, but once you get to something like Tier 1 universities, none of those people made it in because of their inadequacies.

Calm down Meuge...I made that statement to illustrate the fallacy in making broad generalizations about educators and working professionals.

However, it is no secret that many of the best and brightest academics would last all of ten seconds in corporate America...and similarly, many who find success in the business world simply cannot produce within an academic environment. Likewise, you have some who can cross seamlessly between both worlds.

I have a friend in NYU Law, and his experience has been that the professors were older lawyers who were exquisitely successful at what they did, made their money and fame, and then decided to enjoy the rest of their lives.

Same has been said by my friend at Stern School Of Business.

And I won't even start telling you about the people who run classes here at the Medical School, or the Research Institute.

So in my experience, you can scratch Business, Law, and Medicine off that magical board of yours.

 

[mect]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
Just a common sense thought, if you take a poli sci or philosophy class in a university, wouldn't you expect the profs to be somewhat bias left or right??

Or what about my nursing professors who more or less tell me to sit down and shut up when i attempt to bring a dissenting and/or differing opinion on how to take care of a patient in a given situation? Should they be remanded for that?

Really I think this whole argument in general is silly, it just sounds like people who feel trapped by the system and seek some way to lash out against for better or worse, left or right side of the fence. People know that if they b!tch enough that people will listen or waffle to their demands or something like that. And I think at the base of all this, that is the case.

Who cares if your professor is left or right leaning, how hard is it to either find another professor(hint: www.ratemyprofessor.com) or switch out of the class, switch universities or heaven forbid swallow your pride and do whats necessary to pass the class...It wont kill you honestly! Remember we arent in some dictatorship we have choices in this country and in our lives...

Yes, I would say your nursing professor should be reprimanded for that, especially if you also have scientific data to back your position. There are many different opinions in the sciences just like in law. If you go to a conference, you can see very heated debates at the end of seminars. Professors, regardless of their class, should not consider themselves to be gods who we should mindlessly follow. Granted, a professor cannot waste a whole lecture arguing with students, but if a professor disagrees with your point of view, he/she should be willing to take time outside of class to explain why, not say shut up and sit down. Good students will question what their professors tell them, and good professors will respect that.

 

[mect]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

In realms of higher education those who DO are actually the ones who TEACH. Perhaps this red herring is remotely applicable to high school and community college, but once you get to something like Tier 1 universities, none of those people made it in because of their inadequacies.

Calm down Meuge...I made that statement to illustrate the fallacy in making broad generalizations about educators and working professionals.

However, it is no secret that many of the best and brightest academics would last all of ten seconds in corporate America...and similarly, many who find success in the business world simply cannot produce within an academic environment. Likewise, you have some who can cross seamlessly between both worlds.

I have a friend in NYU Law, and his experience has been that the professors were older lawyers who were exquisitely successful at what they did, made their money and fame, and then decided to enjoy the rest of their lives.

Same has been said by my friend at Stern School Of Business.

And I won't even start telling you about the people who run classes here at the Medical School, or the Research Institute.

So in my experience, you can scratch Business, Law, and Medicine off that magical board of yours.

Read his post. He says that some are able to cross lines, but some cannot, and it has more to do with the personallity than their intelligence.

I do question your comment about people leaving business for academia because they want to enjoy the rest of their lives. Academia is often more time and pressure than business, especially at a major research institution before tenure.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I have a friend in NYU Law, and his experience has been that the professors were older lawyers who were exquisitely successful at what they did, made their money and fame, and then decided to enjoy the rest of their lives.

In the cases you cited, you have people who achieved success and recognition in their respected fields, and then decided to enter academia to share their real world knowledge...in both undergrad and graduate school, I encountered numerous professors who fit this criteria...leaders of industry who are now teaching seminars, lectures or full semester courses...not surprisingly, they tended to be the best and most sought after professors.

The professors I am referring to are more your career academics who have never had to test their sometimes idealistic worldview in the real world, particularly in the realm of social sciences.

So in my experience, you can scratch Business, Law, and Medicine off that magical board of yours.

Our experiences are similar, and I don't think we are in total disagreement...there are always exceptions to every rule, which was the point of my original post.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

I have a friend in NYU Law, and his experience has been that the professors were older lawyers who were exquisitely successful at what they did, made their money and fame, and then decided to enjoy the rest of their lives.

In the cases you cited, you have people who achieved success and recognition in their respected fields, and then decided to enter academia to share their real world knowledge...in both undergrad and graduate school, I encountered numerous professors who fit this criteria...leaders of industry who are now teaching seminars, lectures or full semester courses...not surprisingly, they tended to be the best and most sought after professors.

The professors I am referring to are more your career academics who have never had to test their sometimes idealistic worldview in the real world, particularly in the realm of social sciences.

So in my experience, you can scratch Business, Law, and Medicine off that magical board of yours.

Our experiences are similar, and I don't think we are in total disagreement...there are always exceptions to every rule, which was the point of my original

I see this method used for arguments very often:

"Yeah, they are all ****, but there are always exceptions."

It's a very bad way to argue your point, given that it cannot be disproved unless one has hard data for the majority of cases.

So let me ask you - where is the proof for your side of the argument? How is it that the when you're making sweeping judgements, you want to put the burden of proof on others?

 

[themusgrat]

About right wingers not liking education, some are right, some are wrong. We have poured money into education, and left it at that. Democrats think that more money will solve the problem, and republicans think that if something doesn't work after a long while, cut back on it and try something else. For example, I live in Memphis, TN. The Shelby County schools used to receive like 3000 per student, and Memphis City received like 5000. Shelby County scores were 15-20% better on average. Now, both districts receive 6000. Shelby County scores have dropped significantly, and Memphis City scores have risen slightly, to be a bit better than Shelby County. So maybe a little more money helps, but not a bunch. You liberals are just that when it comes to money. Way too liberal, not willing to do anything else.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: themusgrat
About right wingers not liking education, some are right, some are wrong. We have poured money into education, and left it at that. Democrats think that more money will solve the problem, and republicans think that if something doesn't work after a long while, cut back on it and try something else. For example, I live in Memphis, TN. The Shelby County schools used to receive like 3000 per student, and Memphis City received like 5000. Shelby County scores were 15-20% better on average. Now, both districts receive 6000. Shelby County scores have dropped significantly, and Memphis City scores have risen slightly, to be a bit better than Shelby County. So maybe a little more money helps, but not a bunch. You liberals are just that when it comes to money. Way too liberal, not willing to do anything else.

Exactly. How does more money change the concept of or the way Algebra is taught?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: themusgrat
About right wingers not liking education, some are right, some are wrong. We have poured money into education, and left it at that. Democrats think that more money will solve the problem, and republicans think that if something doesn't work after a long while, cut back on it and try something else. For example, I live in Memphis, TN. The Shelby County schools used to receive like 3000 per student, and Memphis City received like 5000. Shelby County scores were 15-20% better on average. Now, both districts receive 6000. Shelby County scores have dropped significantly, and Memphis City scores have risen slightly, to be a bit better than Shelby County. So maybe a little more money helps, but not a bunch. You liberals are just that when it comes to money. Way too liberal, not willing to do anything else.

Exactly. How does more money change the concept of or the way Algebra is taught?

That's just silly. Pouring money into education might not be working because education isn't a monolithic entity, some areas of education are a better use of money than others. Just as an example, school systems today spend far more money on testing than they used to...money that COULD be spent directly on education. Say, spend it on teacher salaries. Teaching is an almost worthless return on an investment in education, and ranks among the jobs least rewarded in our society. Most people would agree that a teacher holds a vital job that requires just as much skill and knowledge as any other white collar job, yet the guy getting your order wrong at Taco Bell makes close to the same amount. Spending more money on teacher salaries might be "way too liberal", but it would be a great way to attract better teachers. Money isn't always the answer, but in some places in education, it just might be.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: themusgrat
About right wingers not liking education, some are right, some are wrong. We have poured money into education, and left it at that. Democrats think that more money will solve the problem, and republicans think that if something doesn't work after a long while, cut back on it and try something else. For example, I live in Memphis, TN. The Shelby County schools used to receive like 3000 per student, and Memphis City received like 5000. Shelby County scores were 15-20% better on average. Now, both districts receive 6000. Shelby County scores have dropped significantly, and Memphis City scores have risen slightly, to be a bit better than Shelby County. So maybe a little more money helps, but not a bunch. You liberals are just that when it comes to money. Way too liberal, not willing to do anything else.

Exactly. How does more money change the concept of or the way Algebra is taught?

That's just silly. Pouring money into education might not be working because education isn't a monolithic entity, some areas of education are a better use of money than others. Just as an example, school systems today spend far more money on testing than they used to...money that COULD be spent directly on education. Say, spend it on teacher salaries. Teaching is an almost worthless return on an investment in education, and ranks among the jobs least rewarded in our society. Most people would agree that a teacher holds a vital job that requires just as much skill and knowledge as any other white collar job, yet the guy getting your order wrong at Taco Bell makes close to the same amount. Spending more money on teacher salaries might be "way too liberal", but it would be a great way to attract better teachers. Money isn't always the answer, but in some places in education, it just might be.

I would like to see teachers make a little more money too. Although $40,000 a year (with summer off) plus excellent benefits doesn't seem like a ripoff. I don't think anyone working at Taco Bell is making that much.

 

[Generator]

In dealings with college professor few have been political. And if they have there politics have been right of center. Comments like,..."shoot all the muslims" or "shoot anything with a towel on its head." Or my favorite, "I really hope there are blacks in heaven."