Uber Suspends Driverless Car Program After Pedestrian Is Struck and Killed

[Ichinisan]

1 minute on youtube disproves this statement immediately.

...or one minute on the freeway around Atlanta.

 

[Ichinisan]

Uber reportedly reduced the number of sensors on its autonomous cars:

https://www.engadget.com/2018/03/28/uber-reduced-safety-sensors-on-its-autonomous-cars/

The article claims Uber cut down the number of Lidar sensors to 1 on its test cars, resulting in more blind spots. To me a self-driving car should not have any blind spots, let alone "more." Mentions that other companies use 5 or 6 in comparison.

Straight ahead shouldn't be a blind spot.

 

[urvile]

Lots of testing and oversight. This was simply a failure, which will lead to corrections.

What oversight (genuinely curious)? Lets hope the corrections don't cause more problems. Because when developing complex systems that's generally what happens.

The following is OT and slightly ranty:

I don't get why people god worship companies like uber and facebook. Uber was enabling citizens to break the law in aus (being disruptive and edgy). Then they made up some bullshit about the share economy like that somehow excuses their complete disregard for the rule of law.

They were aware that their drivers were being fined. It's not very ethical is it. I will admit that I am still annoyed about my undelivered chicken parmigiana. I am hoping it will still turn up.

 

[Ichinisan]

What oversight (genuinely curious)? Lets hope the corrections don't cause more problems. Because when developing complex systems that's generally what happens.

The following is OT and slightly ranty:

I don't get why people god worship companies like uber and facebook. Uber was enabling citizens to break the law in aus (being disruptive and edgy). Then they made up some bullshit about the share economy like that somehow excuses their complete disregard for the rule of law.

They were aware that their drivers were being fined. It's not very ethical is it. I will admit that I am still annoyed about my undelivered chicken parmigiana. I am hoping it will still turn up.

I have a difficult time believing any city would allow testing without major oversight. Politicians inviting that are asking for backlash from constituents.

I don't live there, so I don't know about it. I think it's stupid to assume there is limited or no oversight.

It's obviously the only reason the footage of the incident is out there.

 

[Zorba]

I'm fairly certain there is a lot more testing and preparation within these limited test areas than you or I know.

Please feel free to prove me wrong, where are the SAE Specs, ASTMs, CFRs, ISOs, etc that these cars are being designed and tested to?

Tesla basically admits to using public cars on public roads as test beds, and the others are putting experimental cars with warm bodies acting as "safety drivers" on public roads without any certification.

 

[Zorba]

I have a difficult time believing any city would allow testing without major oversight. Politicians inviting that are asking for backlash from constituents.

I don't live there, so I don't know about it. I think it's stupid to assume there is limited or no oversight.

It's obviously the only reason the footage of the incident is out there.

So you are just assuming that legislators are concerned about looking bad from a lack of oversight of big businesses? LOL. State laws are public, feel free to find what the regs are on self driving cars in Arizona.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I have a difficult time believing any city would allow testing without major oversight. Politicians inviting that are asking for backlash from constituents.

I don't live there, so I don't know about it. I think it's stupid to assume there is limited or no oversight.

It's obviously the only reason the footage of the incident is out there.

Well you must be having a difficult time then. Arizona openly courted autonomous testing by promising little regulation (beyond what applies to human cars). The Arizona government seems to pass more laws explicitly banning regulations than actual regulations themselves. Er, have you not been paying any attention to American politics? One political party has lack of regulation and deregulation as a tentpole of their platform. Isn't it odd how people will cheer lack of oversight/regulation until they see the catastrophe that stuff is there to prevent?

Arizona courted Uber after Uber threw a fit over just the registration of autonomous vehicles in California.

I think its stupid to be arguing things when you're admitting you are ignorant about it. And its not equally stupid to assume there is good oversight? Your thought process there is completely baffling.

 

[Ichinisan]

Well you must be having a difficult time then. Arizona openly courted autonomous testing by promising little regulation (beyond what applies to human cars). The Arizona government seems to pass more laws explicitly banning regulations than actual regulations themselves. Er, have you not been paying any attention to American politics? One political party has lack of regulation and deregulation as a tentpole of their platform. Isn't it odd how people will cheer lack of oversight/regulation until they see the catastrophe that stuff is there to prevent?

Arizona courted Uber after Uber threw a fit over just the registration of autonomous vehicles in California.

I think its stupid to be arguing things when you're admitting you are ignorant about it. And its not equally stupid to assume there is good oversight? Your thought process there is completely baffling.

Are they testing state-wide? I've heard it's limited to specific cities. Cities have their own regulations too and city lawmakers would be very cautious about allowing these tests to occur. I think we know Uber would have long legal discussions with city politicians and preparations would be made long before testing ever starts.

 

[Zorba]

Are they testing state-wide? I've heard it's limited to specific cities. Cities have their own regulations too and city lawmakers would be very cautious about allowing these tests to occur. I think we know Uber would have long legal discussions with city politicians and preparations would be made long before testing ever starts.

The only reason they started testing in Arizona is because they didn't want to deal with the week long registration process in CA. You need to stop assuming that someone is looking out for the public's interest when there is absolutely no evidence there is. Further, I don't believe there is any state with any regulation against using autopilot on Tesla, even though it is a completely uncertified system, that they admit they are testing on the driving public.

 

[Exterous]

I'm fairly certain there is a lot more testing and preparation within these limited test areas than you or I know.

Please feel free to prove me wrong, where are the SAE Specs, ASTMs, CFRs, ISOs, etc that these cars are being designed and tested to?

Tesla basically admits to using public cars on public roads as test beds, and the others are putting experimental cars with warm bodies acting as "safety drivers" on public roads without any certification.

Youre both right. The lack of alphabet soup certifications doesnt mean companies arent doing a ton of testing at massive, purpose built facilities like Castle or Mcity before continuing the substantial testing on the road. I've had the pleasure of being involved in a project involving a test facility and the data they generate, analyze and utilize is impressive. But it does mean that there are no overall standards to conform to so its largely up to the companies themselves and I'd be willing to bet Uber does less of this than Waymo

 

[slayer202]

Someone must stop the mass chaos and casualties these autonomous cars are causing!!!!

oh wait

 

[Zorba]

Someone must stop the mass chaos and casualties these autonomous cars are causing!!!!

oh wait

Again, considering the rate of deaths with humans is a little over 1 in 100 million miles and there have only been about 8 million miles driven by self driving cars, there is too small of a sample size of self-driving cars to say if they are safer or not. Second, there is a massive Sampling Bias mixed in the with the data from autonomous cars, because they only drive through prescribed conditions and they are only installed on newer cars that have latest in passive safety systems.

Your comment is basically like the people that used to claim the Concorde was the safest commercial airliner in the world, which it "was"... Until it wasn't (now it is basically the most unsafe in the jet age). It is amazing how many warning signs and near misses were ignored until a plane full of people died, but that is usually the only way humans learn.

I'm sorry I keep trying to hurt your troll fest with real data though.

 

[slayer202]

Here we go again with the airplane comparisons

 

[slayer202]

A woman walked into a moving car at night. Uber was slacking, and they were suspended in Arizona. Hopefully this is a wake up call to anyone cutting corners.

A tesla crashed into a broken barrier and the driver ignored the warning signals

I'm still waiting to see the problems these vehicles are causing on their own. For this rushed technology and lack of oversight you guys say there is, it doesn't seem like it has causes too many issues...Cars will crash and people will die, it's inevitable. I don't see any trend forming, though. If autonomous cars are your worry, I suggest not leaving the house

zorba calling his concorde anecdote real data. CARS, man, CARS

 

[Skel]

Are they testing state-wide? I've heard it's limited to specific cities. Cities have their own regulations too and city lawmakers would be very cautious about allowing these tests to occur. I think we know Uber would have long legal discussions with city politicians and preparations would be made long before testing ever starts.

I've been under the impression it's just the Tempe Scottsdale area. I haven't seen them in other areas. Granted I don't travel that much out of my area, but I've done it enough times I would have expected to see them. They are very annoying as they're all over the place in my area clogging up my traffic. The only thing I'm finding more annoying are those stupid bike rental things. Those are littered everywhere as people take their free ride and then dump them where ever.

 

[DietDrThunder]

A woman walked into a moving car at night. Uber was slacking, and they were suspended in Arizona. Hopefully this is a wake up call to anyone cutting corners.

A tesla crashed into a broken barrier and the driver ignored the warning signals

I'm still waiting to see the problems these vehicles are causing on their own. For this rushed technology and lack of oversight you guys say there is, it doesn't seem like it has causes too many issues...Cars will crash and people will die, it's inevitable. I don't see any trend forming, though. If autonomous cars are your worry, I suggest not leaving the house

zorba calling his concorde anecdote real data. CARS, man, CARS

I guess you didn't watch the Tesla video on the previous page.

 

[slayer202]

I guess you didn't watch the Tesla video on the previous page.

I did. Weren't the blinking lights a signal to take control? I was surprised I didn't hear an audio alert though. But did you watch? If you were paying attention while driving, you'd notice you were on the median heading directly into a barrier...

 

[Zorba]

A woman walked into a moving car at night. Uber was slacking, and they were suspended in Arizona. Hopefully this is a wake up call to anyone cutting corners.

A tesla crashed into a broken barrier and the driver ignored the warning signals

I'm still waiting to see the problems these vehicles are causing on their own. For this rushed technology and lack of oversight you guys say there is, it doesn't seem like it has causes too many issues...Cars will crash and people will die, it's inevitable. I don't see any trend forming, though. If autonomous cars are your worry, I suggest not leaving the house

zorba calling his concorde anecdote real data. CARS, man, CARS

I'm glad you don't see any pattern. Why don't you let the people that actually work with safety critical transportation equipment have an intelligent conversation.

You have yet to actually respond to any post with data, or counter any post with data in it. You are either too dumb to understand the topic or just bring a troll, probably both.

I'm sorry you can't understand how one area of mass transportation, and the safety aspects of it, (or for that matter basic statistics) apply to another area. BTW: The safety methods developed for aviation are used throughout industry in safety and mission critical applications. Further, reliability and test methods developed for aviation are used throughout industry. It just happens to be aviation and nuclear power were on the leading edge of safety and reliability philosophy. The fact that you act like it isn't related just shows how ignorant you are.

 

[DietDrThunder]

I did. Weren't the blinking lights a signal to take control? I was surprised I didn't hear an audio alert though. But did you watch? If you were paying attention while driving, you'd notice you were on the median heading directly into a barrier...

The driver that duplicated the problem knew what to expect, was paying attention, and he still almost hit the barricade. 6 seconds flies by really quickly. If you weren't expecting it, all it would take is for someone to take their eyes off the road and fiddle with the radio controls. At 60 mph, you are traveling 88 feet per second, or in 6 seconds you travel 528 feet. Plus you have to subtract 128 feet because this is how many feet it will take you to stop the Tesla at 60 mph. So that is almost 1.5 seconds less means you'll have to respond in 4.5 seconds to avoid the crash.

 

[slayer202]

I'm glad you don't see any pattern. Why don't you let the people that actually work with safety critical transportation equipment have an intelligent conversation.

You have yet to actually respond to any post with data, or counter any post with data in it. You are either too dumb to understand the topic or just bring a troll, probably both.

I'm sorry you can't understand how one area of mass transportation, and the safety aspects of it, (or for that matter basic statistics) apply to another area. BTW: The safety methods developed for aviation are used throughout industry in safety and mission critical applications. Further, reliability and test methods developed for aviation are used throughout industry. It just happens to be aviation and nuclear power were on the leading edge of safety and reliability philosophy. The fact that you act like it isn't related just shows how ignorant you are.

what's this data and facts you keep referring to? did I miss that? please repost

I already shut down your bullshit arguments, stop being salty about it. you're a clown

 

[CZroe]

Please feel free to prove me wrong, where are the SAE Specs, ASTMs, CFRs, ISOs, etc that these cars are being designed and tested to?

Actively being developed with real-world testing. Yes, we’ve progressed to that phase and it’s already proven to be orders of magnitude safer than a human driver. Not every commercial venture is villainous.

What Uber has done is halt progress and accept a huge setback at the expense of prudes who don’t even see the hypocrisy of their position. Do you really want to be one of them?

Would you have Uber pull all human-operated vehicles after a single human-caused fatality? Guess what: those are WAY more common by every metric (total, per driver, per trip, per vehicle, etc). You have to ignore science and statistics to object to further testing and development.

The future is coming. Stop fighting it. I love to drive too but the advantages are too much to ignore. Soon, I will be the one messing things up for everyone else by driving myself while they are all using autonomous vehicles on augmented roadways built with them in mind.

 

[Skel]

Actively being developed with real-world testing. Yes, we’ve progressed to that phase and it’s already proven to be orders of magnitude safer than a human driver. Not every commercial venture is villainous.

What Uber has done is halt progress and accept a huge setback at the expense of prudes who don’t even see the hypocrisy of their position. Do you really want to be one of them?

Would you have Uber pull all human-operated vehicles after a single human-caused fatality? Guess what: those are WAY more common by every metric (total, per driver, per trip, per vehicle, etc). You have to ignore science and statistics to object to further testing and development.

The future is coming. Stop fighting it. I love to drive too but the advantages are too much to ignore. Soon, I will be the one messing things up for everyone else by driving myself while they are all using autonomous vehicles on augmented roadways built with them in mind.

Proven how? I haven't seen anything to make me think it's really safer than someone driving. It's still way to early and too few cars they're testing to have that info yet.

On another note I'm seeing Waymo cars back on the road today. Not sure if they stopped testing when Uber did, or if I just hadn't seen them when I was out. I just know I haven't seen them in a bit and today saw two of them... I really wish they picked somewhere else to test, it's bad enough with Snowbirds, now it's these stupid cars.

 

[CZroe]

Proven how? I haven't seen anything to make me think it's really safer than someone driving. It's still way to early and too few cars they're testing to have that info yet.

On another note I'm seeing Waymo cars back on the road today. Not sure if they stopped testing when Uber did, or if I just hadn't seen them when I was out. I just know I haven't seen them in a bit and today saw two of them... I really wish they picked somewhere else to test, it's bad enough with Snowbirds, now it's these stupid cars.

Cold. Hard. Statistics. Look at deaths or incidents per million miles if you want.

People seem intent on ignoring them, but we already have MOUNTAINS of statistics that tell us that autonomous systems save lives.

 

[Zorba]

Actively being developed with real-world testing. Yes, we’ve progressed to that phase and it’s already proven to be orders of magnitude safer than a human driver. Not every commercial venture is villainous.

What Uber has done is halt progress and accept a huge setback at the expense of prudes who don’t even see the hypocrisy of their position. Do you really want to be one of them?

Would you have Uber pull all human-operated vehicles after a single human-caused fatality? Guess what: those are WAY more common by every metric (total, per driver, per trip, per vehicle, etc). You have to ignore science and statistics to object to further testing and development.

The future is coming. Stop fighting it. I love to drive too but the advantages are too much to ignore. Soon, I will be the one messing things up for everyone else by driving myself while they are all using autonomous vehicles on augmented roadways built with them in mind.

Except the real statistics that are published don't agree with you. Humans run 1.18 deaths per 100M miles, self driving is running 1 per 8M. Of course the sample size is too small and biased to make real statements about the over arching conclusions, but you sure can't say it is proven to be better.

I'm am not against autonomous cars at all, I am against them being pushed out on to the public without any regulation or even industry standards. They will be the future, but if they are pushed out with regulation, standards, certification and a framework for liability it will be a very short lived experiment as companies are sued out of existence.

I am very against the semi-autonomous driving cars, though, since it has been shown over and over that humans can't not reliablely take over in a split second emergency. Either the system is good enough, or it isn't, the good enough until it fails isn't right.

 

[Skel]

Cold. Hard. Statistics. Look at deaths or incidents per million miles if you want.

People seem intent on ignoring them, but we already have MOUNTAINS of statistics that tell us that autonomous systems save lives.

I'm not ignoring anything.. of course that's easy when you doing give anything past saying it. I find myself agreeing Zorba's

Except the real statistics that are published don't agree with you. Humans run 1.18 deaths per 100M miles, self driving is running 1 per 8M. Of course the sample size is too small and biased to make real statements about the over arching conclusions, but you sure can't say it is proven to be better..<snip>

I'm not saying that you're wrong.. I just would like to see the math. More so I'd like to see how it's been determined so soon. Seems like they'd need more info at this stage. It probably does look really promising (and if they weren't clogging up the roads I drive normally I would completely support them doing more testing/developing the cars) but I think it's still too soon to say it's there's MOUNTAINS of statistics (that can be twisted as all people who do statistics know) that prove anything.. other than we need more testing.

As far as the Government getting involved, I'm not sure. As long as they're not breaking the law (which it seems they aren't otherwise they wouldn't be on the roads) I'm not seeing any reason to treat them special. As long as they continue to follow the current laws and take responsibility if something goes wrong and someone dies then I've no issue with them continuing as they are.