U.S. will cut deficit by 50% by 2013

[sandorski]

Do people seriously hate it that much when the government lets them keep their money? Didn't you work for that money, earn it? You have no problems letting the government spend several times as much as they took from you on idiotic things, wars, pork stimulus packages, etc?

Protip: Government Debt is Your Debt. If Government is giving you Tax Breaks that Increase the Debt, they are not giving you Money back, they are not taking enough of what You Owe.

 

[MrEgo]

I don't have a problem paying taxes, but after working for the federal government for 3 years, I see how much waste there really is. The building that I worked at here in Battle Creek, MI employed nearly 2,500 people... although it was basically a 2,000-person welfare system that paid 50k - 90k per person. The other 500 actually contributed and were very productive workers.

I got a job there as a college intern, even though the work I did there had absolutely no relation to my degree (Computer Networking). I was able to do all of my homework at work, and many of the days were spent doing nothing but studying. I made just under $14/hr doing this. I received $500 and $250 cash bonuses from my supervisor for outstanding performance. I guess they really thought I was a kick-ass studier.

I could go on and on with some of the stuff I've seen.

I just saw the movie "Office Space" for the first time a few months ago. The part where Peter is interviewing with the Bobs made me laugh that much harder, because that's exactly what the work environment was like where I worked.

I know government waste is inevitable, but it really is as bad as people make it out to be. I would be much happier paying taxes if I knew the dollars were being spent much more efficiently. I just think about how we could be upgrading our infrastructure such as the power grid, mass transit, internet backbone, etc, instead of paying these low-skilled, high-dollar salaries.

That was quite the rant. What's the topic again?

 

[JockoJohnson]

Protip: Government Debt is Your Debt. If Government is giving you Tax Breaks that Increase the Debt, they are not giving you Money back, they are not taking enough of what You Owe.

I agree. However, they need to take from all equally. Don't let the upper class AND lower class get away with not paying as much of a percentage. Why should people who make less than a certain amount not pay their fair share. Instead, the middle class gets shit on and has to make up for it.

Also, the rich should be taxed more. I am not calling for a flat tax and to do away with the IRS but everyone should have an equal proportion of federal taxes----is that too much to ask?

 

[dmcowen674]

Right now I am more concerned about deflation and the economy going into a 1930's type depression.

Bush/ on

Bring it on

Bush/ off

 

[dmcowen674]

We are probably in a depression. It may take 10 years for the economy to recover. Often wars erupt during times such as these. If people get desperate they often are more willing to die, and they dont mind killing other people.

Funny, how things I said years ago are being echoed now.

You guys said it would never happen.

 

[StageLeft]

Funny, how things I said years ago are being echoed now.

You guys said it would never happen.

Since you never time-constrain your predictions your predictions mean nothing. This is why you are universally mocked for them.

 

[dmcowen674]

Since you never time-constrain your predictions your predictions mean nothing. This is why you are universally mocked for them.

How do you like it now? Affected enough yet?

 

[ShawnD1]

It's gonna be OK. Looks like the U.S. will cut the deficit in half, by 2013. Wow, that's great.
I'm sure it will happen...

This is the most pathetic thing ever. To show my support for the US budget, I'm going to stop beating my wife and kids by 2013. Until then, I have 2 belts just so I can keep wearing one while I whip some ass.

In the mean time, many other countries have been posting fairly balanced budgets. Sometimes they make money, sometimes they lose money.

I don't have a problem paying taxes, but after working for the federal government for 3 years, I see how much waste there really is. The building that I worked at here in Battle Creek, MI employed nearly 2,500 people... although it was basically a 2,000-person welfare system that paid 50k - 90k per person. The other 500 actually contributed and were very productive workers.

Welcome to every job in the history of the world. A few years ago my local phone company (a private company) had a bunch of the installers walk out. It wasn't an official union strike, but just a bunch of guys who didn't work for whatever reason. After I think 2 months of this bullshit, there was almost no change in service. The installations were being done by a very very small group of contractors, but the work was all getting done. When the company realized it didn't need those assholes, a few hundred people were fired.

Probably the worst was when I worked construction. It was for a private company that did road construction. The guy leading our group of 5 guys did absolutely fuck all for work because he had bad knees, but he was paid more than all of us. We also had one guy whose entire job was to put pylons around dirt piles and shit like that. Out of the entire 12 hours, he did maybe 1 hour of work. This is how industry operates.


Also, I'm going to link a video just to enrage people. Your economy is fucked because your banks don't have any rules. US banks leverage themselves more than pretty much any other banks in the world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nerr88t41PA

 

[Munky]

So much wrong.

1) That is *not* the thinking that caused this mess

It is, you wanna know why? Because Greenspan kept the interest rates low after the dot com bust, in effort to avert a recession. That in turn fueled the housing bubble with easy credit.

2) The First Stimulus *is* working.

Won't bother with the middle.

Err you can change policy 1st of all.

2nd of all it is mathematically proven to work, and ARRA actually is working now.

If it was *working* then the administration would not be asking for another stimulus.

 

[StageLeft]

Oh and the stimulus is working. If by working we mean temporarily stay the coming to Jesus while racking up more debt. Honestly, the stimlus is just a distraction more than anything anyway. This is a $14T economy in crisis, sub trillion here or there is meaningful but not going to be a pancea or catastrophe regardless of which way it goes.

Most people don't give a wet sh*t if companies are more profitable or not, productivity is up or not, etc.. They care about their immediate circumstance: a) Do I have a job, b) Is my house under water, c) Can I afford to buy a new car, d) Can I send my kids to college, etc. The answers to questions such as this are, if anything, worse than a year ago.

 

[piasabird]

I recommend you learn how to grow fruit and vegetables.

 

[Acanthus]

It is, you wanna know why? Because Greenspan kept the interest rates low after the dot com bust, in effort to avert a recession. That in turn fueled the housing bubble with easy credit.




If it was *working* then the administration would not be asking for another stimulus.

Economists called for a stimulus 5x the size of ARRA originally.

It does work, but it wasn't enough.

 

[theeedude]

Yep, we need 2nd stimulus, not austerity. If we try austerity now, we are going to need a much much larger stimulus to get out of the economic disaster that follows. I am talking about New Deal 2.0 stuff.

 

[StageLeft]

Yep, we need 2nd stimulus, not austerity. If we try austerity now, we are going to need a much much larger stimulus to get out of the economic disaster that follows. I am talking about New Deal 2.0 stuff.

How many more stimulus packages? Also, isn't chronic government budgets iwth deficitis really akin to stimulus to begin with in which case the entire West has had stimlus packages for many years now anyway?

 

[Darwin333]

They wish to prolong it as much as humanly possible.

Not quite true, they only care about prolonging it until they are out of office (its not "their" fault anymore... See the "great recession" for proof).

 

[Darwin333]

Yep, we need 2nd stimulus, not austerity. If we try austerity now, we are going to need a much much larger stimulus to get out of the economic disaster that follows. I am talking about New Deal 2.0 stuff.

Where the hell are we gonna get that kinda money? I'd bet you a months worth of paychecks that no way in hell we could actually borrow significantly more (as in New Deal 2.0) than we currently are without even more blatant accounting fraud or possibly the Fed buying all of the bonds. Not to mention the effect it would have on our bond rates and huge increase to our interest payments (hundreds of billions a year with how much we owe TODAY from just a few points off the historical lows).

So umm, again, where ya gonna get the money? I doubt the Chinese will loan us another trillion next year, Europe maybe? lol, who else has a bunch of cash laying around that they are willing to loan at historically low returns (damn near nothing on the short term bonds which are basically all anyone is willing to buy)?

Top 15 countries by GDP, keep in mind we are borrowing well over a trillion bucks this year just to cover "day to day operating costs" and legislation already passed and we have already had to play games with the bond market such as QE (both openly and behind closed doors), maybe I am missing something but I just don't see where we can get another trillion or so on top of what we must currently borrow.

1 United States 14,430,000
2 Japan 5,108,000
3 People's Republic of China 4,814,000[2]
4 Germany 3,273,000
5 France 2,666,000
6 United Kingdom 2,198,000
7 Italy 2,090,000
8 Brazil 1,499,000
9 Spain 1,466,000
10 Canada 1,335,000
11 Russia 1,232,000
12 India 1,095,000
13 Mexico 1,017,000
14 Australia 930,000
15 South Korea 809,700

 

[Darwin333]

GDP is irrelevant. Make it 100 trillion all that matters are how are people doing. How is employment doing. How is Education doing. What's the crime like. GINI distribution. etc

Inflation hurts poor the most because they are invariably on fixed income which will not keep pace. Asset holders are that much more richer since assets keep pace with inflation. So really the "solutions" are identical.

Print more money and you wipe out poor by inflating their check away.
Balance Budget and you wipe out poor by cutting them off.


We have to get back to basics. About 1960s would be good. When we made what we consumed, taxed people appropriately to pay for what we wanted govt to do and didn't inflate peoples savings away, as much.

And yeah cash is never good to have IMO. Doesn't do anything unlike assets.

What the "inflationists" seem to forget is that our entitlements are indexed to inflation. Inflate away 10 trillion in debt and you end up paying 100 trillion more in entitlement payments. If anyone thinks the politicians will de-index the entitlements I will be happy to put some money on that bet. Hell, I'll give ya 20-1 odds that it doesn't happen in Obama's term.

 

[StageLeft]

Where the hell are we gonna get that kinda money?

Our kids' future?

 

[theeedude]

Where the hell are we gonna get that kinda money? I'd bet you a months worth of paychecks that no way in hell we could actually borrow significantly more (as in New Deal 2.0) than we currently are without even more blatant accounting fraud or possibly the Fed buying all of the bonds. Not to mention the effect it would have on our bond rates and huge increase to our interest payments (hundreds of billions a year with how much we owe TODAY from just a few points off the historical lows).

So umm, again, where ya gonna get the money? I doubt the Chinese will loan us another trillion next year, Europe maybe? lol, who else has a bunch of cash laying around that they are willing to loan at historically low returns (damn near nothing on the short term bonds which are basically all anyone is willing to buy)?

Top 15 countries by GDP, keep in mind we are borrowing well over a trillion bucks this year just to cover "day to day operating costs" and legislation already passed and we have already had to play games with the bond market such as QE (both openly and behind closed doors), maybe I am missing something but I just don't see where we can get another trillion or so on top of what we must currently borrow.

1 United States 14,430,000
2 Japan 5,108,000
3 People's Republic of China 4,814,000[2]
4 Germany 3,273,000
5 France 2,666,000
6 United Kingdom 2,198,000
7 Italy 2,090,000
8 Brazil 1,499,000
9 Spain 1,466,000
10 Canada 1,335,000
11 Russia 1,232,000
12 India 1,095,000
13 Mexico 1,017,000
14 Australia 930,000
15 South Korea 809,700

Interest rates are record low, China is still buying US treasuries, I don't think there is an issue accessing money to borrow. Now, if we let our economy collapse from austerity and then want to borrow money to revive it, it's going to cost a lot more, both in principal and interest. NOW is the time for second stimulus.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

meh...

Protip: Government Debt is Your Debt. If Government is giving you Tax Breaks that Increase the Debt, they are not giving you Money back, they are not taking enough of what You Owe.

Why would you owe something if the government didn't overspend? The best way now is to cut back on spending. A tax break doesn't mean they aren't taking in enough. Govt spending needs to wisen up. Otherwise its just a black hole where our money goes and they'll always want more.

 

[StageLeft]

Interest rates are record low, China is still buying US treasuries, I don't think there is an issue accessing money to borrow. Now, if we let our economy collapse from austerity and then want to borrow money to revive it, it's going to cost a lot more, both in principal and interest. NOW is the time for second stimulus.

So should the US start kicking in some austerity when things are even worse such as in Greece, or should it just try and continue indefinitely juggling more and more debt balls and praying to God that they never come crashing down?

 

[theeedude]

Greece is going to exacerbate its problems with austerity. Juggling debt that is in your own currency is not all that hard.

 

[StageLeft]

Greece is going to exacerbate its problems with austerity. Juggling debt that is in your own currency is not all that hard.

lol, you speak like it has options. It has done austerity because without it _it cannot get money_. It was about to default on payments.

 

[Darwin333]

Interest rates are record low, China is still buying US treasuries, I don't think there is an issue accessing money to borrow. Now, if we let our economy collapse from austerity and then want to borrow money to revive it, it's going to cost a lot more, both in principal and interest. NOW is the time for second stimulus.

Gee, what a coincidence. http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2010/06/29/273606/ecb-fixed-term-deposit-fail/

China has sold most of its long term US holdings and serious games have been played on even the short end. The Fed has been caught red handed buying bonds from the primary dealers "behind the curtain" as well as the bonds it purchased through the QE program.

All that leads you to believe that we have the ability to sell an additional trillion or 2 in bonds in the next 12 months??? Seriously? That would put us borrowing over half of China's GDP. Seriously? And when those rates ramp up, and they will, and we have hundreds of billions a year in additional interest payments because we moved ALL of our debt to the short end and no one is buying the long end (except the Fed)?

Since all that debt is short term you must also consider future ability to borrow. If we can't roll that debt in 4 years or it becomes prohibitively expensive to do so we are done. So your solution to ensure that doesn't happen is to borrow another trillion from who the hell knows where and more than likely seriously ramp up the cost of borrowing that money (as well as jack up the costs of almost all the money we have already borrowed)?

IMO, it doesn't matter if we NEED another stimulus because I seriously question our ability to borrow the money required to do it. We are having issues borrowing and rolling current debt and you think we can double what we need to borrow?

 

[Darwin333]

Greece is going to exacerbate its problems with austerity. Juggling debt that is in your own currency is not all that hard.

Lol, wut?

Greece's problem = it owes to much money and has lied about its finances in order to be able borrow said money.

Bad solution = reduce the amount of money you are required to borrow (at absolutely insane rates)???

FFS, you can almost get a payday loan for cheaper than what Greece can borrow money at and you think they shouldn't be reducing the amount of money they will be required to borrow? Ooooh, maybe they should be doing a stimulus package too?