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U.S.: We will stop aid to Palestinians if UN bid proceeds

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None of you have it right in terms of what US ambassador Rubenstien said to EarKat.

Because what Rubenstien said or implied is that a Vengeful US congress would force cutting all US aid to the PA, if the PA asked for Statehood on 9/20/2011.

In the short term, that may be a blackmail threat to the PA, but still most of the downside risks are on the part of the USA and our congress. Its just tiny pocket change for naaactions like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Egypt, and others in the oil rich mid-east to more than make up the US shortfall. And if the Palestinians win their State in the general assembly after a US veto, its going to leave both Israel and the US horribly isolated as they also win the monicker as mean spirited. Not to mention the fact that Israel will no longer have a any right to collect Palestinian taxes and then use it as a weapon against Palestinians.

And if the US congress wants to be Aholes and discriminate against Arabs and Palestinians, they can go to the American people and explain why their policies resulted in an Arab oil embargo against the United States.

In short, Obama and the US won some hearts and minds in the mid-east after his Cairo speech, but if the USA fails to make the words into reality, its the USA and not the Palestinians who will be in the bigger heap of trouble all over the planet. As Ambassador Rubenstien is running out of options for the US to avoid major world embarrassment. Its already a slam dunk that well over 2/3'rd of UN member states will vote to approve a Palestinian State. Maybe the US can prevent a Palestinian State in 2011, but its not going to be cost free for the USA.
What will be the cost and who is going to install / enforce it.

An oil embargo; enough other countries pump oil to fill in the slack.
Base restrictions?
Free passage through the Suez or Panama canals - violates international law; that triggered a war between Egypt and Israel over such
Dump US currency? - someone has to purchase what is being sold.
Embargo US goods. - Good luck on that.
Loss of support. Possible; however, when the world needs US military assistance or aid; they coming a knocking awfully fast. Look at Burma;

The Palestinians are popular politically as the red headed step child; no one is going to jeopardize their future over them.
 
What will be the cost and who is going to install / enforce it.

An oil embargo; enough other countries pump oil to fill in the slack.
Base restrictions?
Free passage through the Suez or Panama canals - violates international law; that triggered a war between Egypt and Israel over such
Dump US currency? - someone has to purchase what is being sold.
Embargo US goods. - Good luck on that.
Loss of support. Possible; however, when the world needs US military assistance or aid; they coming a knocking awfully fast. Look at Burma;

The Palestinians are popular politically as the red headed step child; no one is going to jeopardize their future over them.
You need to forgive LemonLaw......none of his predictions ever come true.........
 
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...d-to-palestinians-if-un-bid-proceeds-1.380901





lol. Rubinstein. gee, i wonder why he's against Palestinian statehood? we need a non-jewish US consul general who is not biased.

with people like this in power, there is no hope for Palestein. :\


"Just because Israel became a state by saying ' Taa daa; we're a state' doesn't mean you @#%ing Arabs get to do the same thing! Who do you think you are? WE are God's chosen people, not you losers!". :sneaky:


Lol look at you blaming this guy because he is jewish.


yet, when Goldstone came out with his report, you all were like "oh look itsa jew going against jews"


fucking morons.
 
We should stop all aid to them ALL. Our deficit is too high.

/thread

I agree. It's time we let all those crazies in that part of the world settle their differences themselves, there is no need for us to be involved, and we don't have money to be handing out anyway.
 
I don't have anything against raising taxes, but I'd certainly raise taxes before we stopped supporting Israel. We have an obligation to them.

Obligation to them? No we don't. They are a sovereign country, we don't owe them anything just like they don't owe us anything.
 
Yes we should "wait" for our overlords in Israel to tell us what to do. It's so embarrassing to see how the U.S. has turned into Israel's bitch. Time to grow up and get this shit dealt with, cut aid to Palestine and Israel and tell them to fix their own disputes. We don't need to get involved in the Middle East it only creates more problems for us.
 
EK manages to convince himself, "The Palestinians are popular politically as the red headed step child; no one is going to jeopardize their future over them."

Yet EK fails to realize, Israel now is even less popular than the Palestinians. And in the mid-east, Israel no longer has a single friend, as in zero.

But every even partly industrialized nation on earth has a big interest in the Mid-East and Mid-East stability, as its becoming quite clear that Israel is the biggest threat to Mid-East stability.

Pretty soon the USA is going to have to decide who to side with, 5 Million Jews inside of Israel who oppress 3 million Palestinians, or 278 million Arabs who want a Palestinian State.

2011 is the dividing year, before 2011 the USA could pretend to be neutral and pretend to straddle the fence, but now the USA can no longer straddle any fences. We in the USA will pay big diplomatic prices for alienating 278 million Arabs and most of our allies.
 
You need to forgive LemonLaw......none of his predictions ever come true.........

A broken clock can be perceived to be right twice.

It is what is feels will support the predictions rather than a vague cloud.

Blockade runners
Egypt opening the borders
Turkey going to war
Israel kissing Obama's ring
Abbas having power to negotiate
Pressure on US to support a Palestinians state.

This is what he has had fail;
Now what will be the consequences of this latest action; or is it again wishful thinking? What insight does he possess into international politics/economics that is hidden from the rest of us and common sense.



EK manages to convince himself, "The Palestinians are popular politically as the red headed step child; no one is going to jeopardize their future over them."

Yet EK fails to realize, Israel now is even less popular than the Palestinians. And in the mid-east, Israel no longer has a single friend, as in zero.

But every even partly industrialized nation on earth has a big interest in the Mid-East and Mid-East stability, as its becoming quite clear that Israel is the biggest threat to Mid-East stability.

Pretty soon the USA is going to have to decide who to side with, 5 Million Jews inside of Israel who oppress 3 million Palestinians, or 278 million Arabs who want a Palestinian State.

2011 is the dividing year, before 2011 the USA could pretend to be neutral and pretend to straddle the fence, but now the USA can no longer straddle any fences. We in the USA will pay big diplomatic prices for alienating 278 million Arabs and most of our allies.
The biggest threat to Mid-East stability is the Arab ego. They can not stand Israel existing there. The Palestinians are just another excuse and a diversion from their own internal problems.

Again asking - what price?
We have supported Israel for the past 40 years. Who has exerted the diplomatic power; not the Arabs for sure. If I recall they came to the US for help even this year.

No one is stating the Palestinians can not have a state. They just have to be willing to abide by international guidelines to becomes a state. And they refuse to do so at this point.
 
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Pretty soon the USA is going to have to decide who to side with, 5 Million Jews inside of Israel who oppress 3 million Palestinians, or 278 million Arabs who want a Palestinian State.

2011 is the dividing year, before 2011 the USA could pretend to be neutral and pretend to straddle the fence, but now the USA can no longer straddle any fences. We in the USA will pay big diplomatic prices for alienating 278 million Arabs and most of our allies.

If those 278 million Arabs want palestinians to have a country so badly, why don't they slice off some of their own land to make it happen? Why drag out the process for 50 years trying to take land from people that clearly DON'T want palestinians to have their own country when, according to you, everyone else in the region has plenty of extra land AND want the palestinians to have their own country?

Also lulz at the US paying "diplomatic prices." 278 million Arabs... that's about 2 million who are wealthy and wield any sort of influence, and the rest that are dirt poor and live under a dictatorship of some sort in which their voices mean nothing. Yeah, I'm real worried about what those people have to say.
 
The key is those Israel's forward colonies, which have been deliberately and often illegally built by their domestic extremists to create a tangled mess of a border zone that allows no peace.

I think there's no need for negotiation. Israel could just force a peace, and negotiations could follow in a couple of decades after dust has settled down. It is a question of political will, and specifically Israeli moderates' ability to ignore the extremist minority.

In practical terms: Israel could pull back a bit, evict the hotheads from the forward colonies, set up a wide no-go buffer zone around Palestinian territory, fully close its borders towards the Palestinian territory, and declare unilateral ceasefire. This would leave the Palestinian extremists no chance to do any damage, which in turn would leave Israeli extremists no excuses to keep poking at the Palestinians, which in turn would leave the Palestinian extremists no excuses to keep trying to attack.

The funny thing is that this would have no real cost to Israel. Even with the tangled border of now, the sum of all Israelis killed in Palestinian conflicts pales in comparison to mundane things like traffic accident victims. The Palestinians just aren't a credible threat.
 
A broken clock can be perceived to be right twice.

It is what is feels will support the predictions rather than a vague cloud.

Blockade runners
Egypt opening the borders
Turkey going to war
Israel kissing Obama's ring
Abbas having power to negotiate
Pressure on US to support a Palestinians state.

This is what he has had fail;
Now what will be the consequences of this latest action; or is it again wishful thinking? What insight does he possess into international politics/economics that is hidden from the rest of us and common sense.




The biggest threat to Mid-East stability is the Arab ego. They can not stand Israel existing there. The Palestinians are just another excuse and a diversion from their own internal problems.

Again asking - what price?
We have supported Israel for the past 40 years. Who has exerted the diplomatic power; not the Arabs for sure. If I recall they came to the US for help even this year.

No one is stating the Palestinians can not have a state. They just have to be willing to abide by international guidelines to becomes a state. And they refuse to do so at this point.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Self serving Israeli propaganda from beginning to end.

As the Israeli progangda lines are wearing thinner and thinner.
 
The key is those Israel's forward colonies, which have been deliberately and often illegally built by their domestic extremists to create a tangled mess of a border zone that allows no peace.

I think there's no need for negotiation. Israel could just force a peace, and negotiations could follow in a couple of decades after dust has settled down. It is a question of political will, and specifically Israeli moderates' ability to ignore the extremist minority.

In practical terms: Israel could pull back a bit, evict the hotheads from the forward colonies, set up a wide no-go buffer zone around Palestinian territory, fully close its borders towards the Palestinian territory, and declare unilateral ceasefire. This would leave the Palestinian extremists no chance to do any damage, which in turn would leave Israeli extremists no excuses to keep poking at the Palestinians, which in turn would leave the Palestinian extremists no excuses to keep trying to attack.

The funny thing is that this would have no real cost to Israel. Even with the tangled border of now, the sum of all Israelis killed in Palestinian conflicts pales in comparison to mundane things like traffic accident victims. The Palestinians just aren't a credible threat.

I guess you haven't been paying attention. Israel essentially did this by building the wall. Then hamas started launching rockets over it.
 
Was there any threads about the hundreds of thousands of Israelis protesting for social justice?
I looked again and can't find any, how did this get missed here?
And no I'm not talking about the Glen Beck protesters telling him to take his hate back to America where it belongs
Israelis have a major housing problem on their hands and aren't too happy about the way the Gov deals with it.

Todays new/old word is Lebensraum.

"Lebensraum (help·info) (German for "habitat" or literally "living space") was one of the major political ideas of Adolf Hitler, and an important component of Nazi ideology. It served as the motivation for the expansionist policies of Nazi Germany, aiming to provide extra space for the growth of the German population, for a Greater Germany. In Hitler's book Mein Kampf, he detailed his belief that the German people needed Lebensraum ("living space", i.e. land and raw materials), and that it should be found in the East. It was the stated policy of the Nazis to kill, deport, or enslave the Polish, Russian and other Slavic populations, whom they considered inferior, and to repopulate the land with Germanic peoples. The entire urban population was to be exterminated by starvation, thus creating an agricultural surplus to feed Germany and allowing their replacement by a German upper class."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum

"Lebensraum as a justification for Israeli settlements
We were fortunate when we occupied the West Bank because had we not done so, where would we have come to live? And who knows how high housing prices would have risen?

Until now Israel had supported the occupation of the territories with two pillars: history and security - its right to inherit the land and its obligation to defend it. In recent weeks a third pillar was added, which all these years was hidden under straw and stubble. And maybe it's not a pillar but a snake, whose head must be crushed while it's still small.

According to the school of thought based on history and faith, the Land of Israel was received by the Jewish people from the hand of God, and we are commanded to take all of it by dint of the Covenant of the Pieces that God made with Abraham. That was a nice big gift, we have to admit, stretching from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates. It was granted on various festive occasions not only to Abraham but to his heirs as well. Eventually it was forced to shrink, and now there is really no reason to shrink it further out of choice.

click link for rest of article"

http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...ustification-for-israeli-settlements-1.380787
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Self serving Israeli propaganda from beginning to end.

As the Israeli progangda lines are wearing thinner and thinner.

Your predictions lines are even thinner. Nothing works.

You can not even defend your own statements.

there are factions within the Palestinians that do not want peace and want to ruin chances of it coming to fruition. Question the timing of the latest attacks on the tourists. An then the immediate reaction of Hamas in firing rockets.

It takes time to setup the rockets; it was perfect coordination in an attempt to draw off Israeli forces from the initial attack.
Those are the actions of a people that want the UN to recognize them as a nation that can live with its neighbor? Or is it one of people that are thumbing their noses at the "peaceful solution" out where everyone can see.
 
Once again Nebor makes an incorrect assertion by asking, "If those 278 million Arabs want palestinians to have a country so badly, why don't they slice off some of their own land to make it happen? "

Which in fact Jordon and Egypt did after the 1967&73 wars. And in so doing Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem were to be set aside for a Palestinian State because by UN doctrine land by conquest is illegal by UN and world doctrine. Yet here we are, 44 years later, and Israel still have not returned to their 1967 border, and still militarily occupy land they can never own. And to add injury to insult they allow Jewish settlement while discriminating against Palestinians.

After the collapse of the Annapolis conference at the end of the GWB era, nearly everyone in the world recognized Israel refused to negotiate in good faith and could not be trusted. Meanwhile Abbas has built the institution of a State and has IMF recognition for having done so. Its why I think the Pals is now the best way forward.
 
I guess you haven't been paying attention. Israel essentially did this by building the wall. Then hamas started launching rockets over it.
LOL no. They didn't pull back until they have a straight, easily defended border line and a large empty buffer zone. They just built their wall around the very colonies which, by encroaching on territory the Palestinians need to have a borderline viable state and by isolating Palestinian villages from their main territory, guarantee the conflict goes on. The other way those colonies guarantee the conflict goes on is that they are easy targets for any crackpot on the other side, which begets retaliation and so forth.

If Israel commits to an unilateral ceasefire, even if Palestinian government got fully on board, there would certainly be independent extremists lobbing rockets over the buffer zone for a while. Those men would also be there launching rockets if Israel kept bombing the area. The difference is that one of those approaches will result in stability and possibly, eventually, peace. Either way the rockets - just like the rest of what the Palestinians are capable of - do practically no damage.
 
He's a predictable Republican. No hope, no change for Palestinians, 2012 is coming.

lol! Good job holding Obama accountable. So you don't like his performance or policies NOW, so lets just call him a Republican so you can ignore reality!
 
Why should Israel have to tolerate the rockets being tossed at Israel in the first place. They may not hit anything of significance; but that is not for lack of trying.

Israel has been retaliating, not initiating.
The militant groups want to keep the tensions high so as to not have a peace process.

Most of the peace treaties; it is the Palestinians that first break them; then they cry about the fact that Israel responded.
 
lol! Good job holding Obama accountable. So you don't like his performance or policies NOW, so lets just call him a Republican so you can ignore reality!

Uh, should I hold him accountable for what he hasn't done yet? I think I'll post attacking what he's going to do in 2013!

You posted an idiotic comment. He's called a Republican because he has generally had Republican (traditional Republican, not the current crazies) policies.

You offer zero facts to support your attack, for a good reason.
 
Why should Israel have to tolerate the rockets being tossed at Israel in the first place. They may not hit anything of significance; but that is not for lack of trying.

Israel has been retaliating, not initiating.
The militant groups want to keep the tensions high so as to not have a peace process.

Most of the peace treaties; it is the Palestinians that first break them; then they cry about the fact that Israel responded.

Every day Israel is occupying the Palestinian lands, treating them second class, restricting everything from their water to road access, is initiating.
 
a follow-up article:
http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...ing-recognition-of-palestinian-state-1.381062

UN envoy Prosor: Israel has no chance of stopping recognition of Palestinian state

Sources in the Prime Minister's Office say Netanyahu is considering sitting out this year's General Assembly, sending Peres to face likely diplomatic barrage in his stead.

The Palestinian Foreign Minister, Riyad al-Maliki , said over the weekend that the Palestinian Authority is close to gaining the support of 130 states which will recognize a Palestinian state. This follows the recent recognition of a Palestinian state by Honduras
and El Salvador.

China also announced it will support the Palestinian resolution at the UN.

The Palestinians estimate that Guatemala and several Caribbean island-states will also announce their recognition of a Palestinian state in coming weeks. Israel is continuing its international campaign to avert support for the resolution and a number of ministers are being dispatched to Africa and Asia.
 
Why should Israel have to tolerate the rockets being tossed at Israel in the first place. They may not hit anything of significance; but that is not for lack of trying.

Israel has been retaliating, not initiating.
The militant groups want to keep the tensions high so as to not have a peace process.

Most of the peace treaties; it is the Palestinians that first break them; then they cry about the fact that Israel responded.
Perhaps many Palestinians see the creation of Israel as the initial act of aggression, and every action since then has only been in retaliation. :hmm:

Unfortunately throughout this whole conflict there have been parties on both sides that have disrupted the peace process. They both need to grow up, stop pointing fingers at each other, and start working toward peace.
 
Frostedflakes is rather flaky in saying, "Perhaps many Palestinians see the creation of Israel as the initial act of aggression, and every action since then has only been in retaliation."

Wrong wrong and triple wrong, Israelis may be able to say Arab Armies attacking the newly formed Israeli state in 1948 as the initial act of aggression. But for Palestinians, Israeli terrorists murdering unarmed Palestinians and forcing the rest out at the point of a gun while stealing all Palestinian owned land in the process, is the act of unjustified Israeli perfidy Israel can never live down.

Had not Israel taken that unjustifiable low road 1948-1953, we might have a accepted Israel State in the mid-east. And here we are now in 2011, and that bill is coming due as Israel loses world support at an accelerating rate. As Israel finds itself in deeper and deeper doo doo, and without an argument any nation can or will buy that Israel should be allowed to retain or occupy Gaza, the West Bank, or East Jerusalem.

As Israel hopes anyone will buy their phony Baloney argument that the PA going to the UN for Statehood is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE. When 20 years has proved believing in the Israeli track records of talk talk talk settle settle and illegally settle is the only REAL COUNTER PRODUCTIVE process.
 
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