U.S. Troops Want Rumsfeld to Send Them Home

[Moonbeam]

Bush is taking a dump on Iraq and is sh!tting our national treasure. We're screwed. I'm afraid we will rue the day we didn't cut and run.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Aahh, ha, ha, ha!!! They need to shut their yaps and do their jobs. Every dogface who has ever served in combat has bitched, whined, complained and moaned about how they are being abused and not amused. The last time I looked nobody was conscripted. Guns were not put to their heads or knives to their throats to force them to join up. They need to get over it. They are there for whatever time it takes. When they go in for their ETS talk (reup to some of you) they can decline and get out.

The only thing different now is that we have instantaneous communication. Instead of letters that a week or two, sometimes a month, we have email and reporters with satellite phones looking for Johnny or Jane who never really wanted to be a soldier. No, they just wanted the money for college after spending 3 or 4 years "training".

Well, listen up bitch(s), you are getting your training now. This is what you signed up for. If you are careful and remember your training the chances of getting killed or even wounded are statistically miniscule.

My post has nothing to do with the right or wrong of this operation, only with some people in our military who are whiney little crybabies who don't like being inconvenienced.

That is the chance you took when you signed on the dotted line. I'll bet you never thought you would actually have to earn that college money, did you? Well, Uncle Sam knew.

<----served and didn't whine.

Happy we know you are a mans man. But these kids signed up to the Deparment of Defense, defense of the country being the operative word. It's very questionable at this point if Saddam ever posed a threat to us since we could annihilate him instantly and he knew that. It's Bushs an america ego why we are there... Could'nt stand someone thumbing thier nose up at USA. If these boys are dying for Lockheed-Martin and Halliburtin I think they have a right to bitch and even quit if they want. Read this: We should not be a mercenary force for kings of Big Business..

Bush is taking a dump on Iraq and is sh!tting our national treasure. We're screwed. I'm afraid we will rue the day we didn't cut and run.

Yep, You push and I'll shove, You shove and I'll punch, You punch and I'll get a baseball bat and knock your head off...etc etc etc.. Same old story of ecalation in conflict. Been there done that.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Pennstate
yes, I actually do believe the actions of many democrats qualify as treason

yeah, why don't you look up the legal definition of treason. Saying that people who don't agree with you are treasonous is UNAMERICAN! YOu'll make a great communist or Nazi party boss. Heart surgeon my as

The only ones who should be tried for treason are the PNAC conspirators (political and big business), and maybe even brain-dead, flag-worshipping fascists like HS and his ilk, they should be tried and properly hung.

Thier unbridled belligerence, international lawlessness far surpassing the maniacal, totalitarian secrecy, a total lack of personal accountability to the American people (where everything is hidden behind the mask of "secruity"), institution of a virtual police state, and arbitrary eradication of civil liberties are totally undemocratic.

How much more time do they need? Enough to perfect their torture techniques? Enough to run up an even longer and more reprehensible list of war crimes and human rights abuses? Enough to execute via Pentagon-appointed kangaroo court as many alleged "unlawful combatants" and "evil-doers" -- guilty or otherwise -- as they wish in Guantanamo and elsewhere? Enough to completely overthrow the Constitution of this United States? Times up! Get the F__k out!

Go f__k youself calling those who wish to prevent war and the Forth Riech 'treasonous' you loudmouth- ideologue a__hole. You are destroying this country and all that it stands for. :evil::|

 

[heartsurgeon]

why don't you look up the legal definition of treason

your wish is my....

"Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country
by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies. "

or

"treason
n. the crime of betraying one's country, defined in Article III, section 3 of the U.S. Constitution: "Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort." Treason requires overt acts and includes the giving of government security secrets to other countries, even if friendly, when the information could harm American security. Treason can include revealing to an antagonistic country secrets such as the design of a bomber being built by a private company for the Defense Department. Treason may include "espionage" (spying for a foreign power or doing damage to the operation of the government and its agencies, particularly those involved in security) but is separate and worse than "sedition," which involves a conspiracy to upset the operation of the government."

well, you know, now that i read the "legal" definition, i'm unsure as to whether treason or sedition best describes the actions of most democrats. hmmmm.

 

[Pennstate]

consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies

Yes. Someone like you who is trying to stifle the freedom of speech is truely the enemy of our DEMOCRATIC nation. Go turn yoursef in.

 

[heartsurgeon]

they should be tried and properly hung.

versus improperly hung?

i would have thought you would be against the death penalty..

 

[Pennstate]

One can morally accept the death penalty but oppose it in practice because our legal systems puts too many innocent people in jail. Overzealous and ELECTED prosecutors sees themselves as "atheletes" cares only about its record as its stepping stone to politics rather than justice (i.e. Ashcroft, etc...). They are elected not because they are fair, but because the are "tough on crime". They stack up charges to force a guity plea. If Ashcroft would have his way, he would punish those who commit thought crimes too.

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
you know its hard to keep all the contradictions straight..

Bush is a moron..there have been plenty of threads claiming that.
Bush lied to Congress...gosh, how did such a moron fool so many smart democrats.

Saddam sought out uranium in the 1980's (not even the dems dispute this)
Parts of a centrifuge for purifying uranium to weapons grade was recently dug up in the home garden of an Iraqi nuclear scientist.
what do you suppose saddam's intention was? just give up on nuclear weapons? do you really believe he was just going to stop without a
credible threat of force? Do you propose we should have waited until he actually tested a nuclear bomb, like the N. Koreans are planning?

Senator Kerry (D-France) has stated that he voted for giving Bush authority to use the military in Iraq "to pressure Saddam to comply with U.N. weapons inspectors" But, he didn't really expect Bush to deploy troops! Well, Saddam didn't fully comply with U.N weapons inspectors (or have you forgotten that already) even with the Troop deployed!

if he had the time to develop nuclear weapons, what impact do you think that would have on middle east oil prices, the world economy, the U.S. economy?

yes, I actually do believe the actions of many democrats qualify as treason...and yes i do believe that it encourages saddam loyalists to hang in there and keep killing an occasional U.S. soldier, so their allies like Howard Dean can ultimately win the war for them politically.

There you go twisting people's words and history again.

Senator Kerry (nice touch taking another poke at insulting France - it's worked real well so far, keep it up. Maybe you and Bush can go over there an blow Chirac and Schroeder to get the help Bush is now BEGGING for) said he voted for giving Bush authority to invade Iraq not only based on Bush's lies but also to present a united front to the UN so the UN would sanction and aid the US in the invasion if necessary instead of having Bush make the mistake of invading unilaterally.

The question of waiting and having Saddam test nukes is one of the most ridiculous charges the Bush adiministration made in their host of ridiculous charges. The story of the scientists garden was clearly a lie and was debunked along with every other story the Bush administration has cooked up so far to cover their lies. Bush and Rice had the nerve to tell the American people they had to act before the threat from Saddam came in the form of a mushroom cloud. Ridiculous. That was simply a lie told to terrorize the citizens of the US and had NO basis whatsoever in fact. I am not surprised some neo-con fascists on this forum continue to propagate that lie.

And since you bring up NK the truth is Bush has wasted time and resources in Iraq while ignoring NK and refusing to have talks after including them in his "Axis of Evil" (an incerdibly stupid blunder even for the Bush administration) while attacking another nation he included. NK is nuclear because they know, as the rest of the world now knows, the only way to keep you neo-con maniacs from invading is to threaten you with the same weapons you threaten the rest of the world with.

You can read former President and Nobel Peace Prize recipient Jimmy Carter's statement on the Bush adminstration's mistakes on NK here.

As for how the dangerous moron you defend in the White House fooled so many smart Democrats, he did it the same way he continues to fool you. He has people behind him with their hands up his a$$ using him like a puppet. Karl Rove for one. And the neo-con PNAC Pentagon civilian leaders headed by Cheney and Rumsfeld for others. Bush is so friggin' stupid he's the perfect candidate for presenting their lies because he actually believes them!

They may be smarter than Bush but they aren't wise, they are simply cunning.

"Nothing does more harm in a state than that cunning men pass for wise." - Francis Bacon

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

they should be tried and properly hung.

versus improperly hung?

i would have thought you would be against the death penalty..

I mean, unlike our President and his "Minister of Justice" Asscroft grants to 1000's of Americans rounded up by the Feds and the ~2000 "Enemy Combatants" held in Gitmo, we should try them according to the Consistitution of these United States. In public, with Habeas Corpus writ rights, afforded any defense of thier choosing to defend thier treason against this United States and her Consititution. Of course I'm against the death penalty but I don't know anymore. The damage done by Bush is beyond the pale of acceptable misconduct.

 

[JackStorm]

It has become quite apparent from Rumsfelds past speeches and coments, that he should NOT talk openly or in public. That man has the uncanning ability of insulting and/or pissing people off. He should stick to closed door brefings and the like. Personaly I'd like to see him retire. (Ashcroft aswell)

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: JackStorm
It has become quite apparent from Rumsfelds past speeches and coments, that he should NOT talk openly or in public. That man has the uncanning ability of insulting and/or pissing people off. He should stick to closed door brefings and the like. Personaly I'd like to see him retire. (Ashcroft aswell)

They kept Rumsfeld under heavy guard and cancelled a speech he was to give before our troops in Iraq yesterday.

But still he managed to display his arrogance and total ignorance of the situation in Iraq in statements he made that made their way into the news.

Asscroft has been keeping a low profile lately after his "Patriot II Tour" got the reception it deserved from America.

Retire? I dunno. I think I'd rather see them all tried for treason.

 

[JackStorm]

Well, BOBDN, it wouldn't surprice me if Ashcroft, were to one day sit infront of a judge for some major fuckup he might do. And while I can understand you wanting to have him tried for treason. I just don't see that happening (even tho he keeps advocating restricting/intrusive laws like the patriot act) But IF he were to get tried for treason, I'd welcome a guilty verdict

 

[Moonbeam]

Not sure they can be tried for treason. To me that implies a conscious act of betrayal. I don't think we can say that about the Bush people. My own take on it is that they are people who are emotionally dead. Was it you, BOBDN that quoted Bacon's "cunning". I think that's it exactly.

The more a culture thinks in terms of good and evil the more horror it dumps on its kids. The more children's behavior is likened to evil the more repressed the adult that emerges. In this way the most successful people in such a culture are the most internally schizophrenic, the most cut off from themselves. Those who have lost their inner selves, who have buried their child behind a wall of amnesia are our sickest souls, because they cannot make content with the source of human wisdom. One result is that the mind that should be loving and kind, becomes cunning instead. Without a center within your ancient self, there is nothing but emptiness everywhere you turn. You can't see morality, truth, love, kindness, anything human on which to base your thought. All that's left is ego. So the dead take care of that. Anything is possible for them because they are empty. And that emptiness drives them to seek to fill and fill and fill. The mind that should have contact with heart is filled instead with cunning. The root definition of sin, I think, is to use that which is for one purpose for another. That is why cunning is evil.

Now every person made the decision to be evil, but it wasn't done with conscious thought. It was chosen by a child who was threatened with death via rejection, if he didn't so choose.

So we have this dilemma. Bush doesn't know he is ill. He even boasts he rarely if ever questions himself. His illness is almost perfect. There is nothing to do but pity him. But he and his act in the world and in that way they are a menace. He can't go unopposed. But there is no need for hate. He's already dead from that.