U.S. troops criticized for parading naked Iraqis

[flavio]

The incident, reported in the Oslo-based daily Dagbladet, involved American soldiers who took four young Iraqi men prisoner, stripped them, burned their clothes and paraded them naked around a public park where light weapons were being stored.

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[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: flavio

The incident, reported in the Oslo-based daily Dagbladet, involved American soldiers who took four young Iraqi men prisoner, stripped them, burned their clothes and paraded them naked around a public park where light weapons were being stored.

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I hope they don't make a habit of it. It's not acceptable behaviour from a professional army.

Andy

 

[Nitemare]

maybe they should just cut off their hands instead...I believe the expression is when in Rome.....do as the Romans

 

[jjones]

Yeah, it may seem inappropriate, and probably is, but it appears they were going along with what some of the locals thought would be a deserved punishment and help to discourage others. Hard to say sitting in the comfort of home, but I would guess that western standards aren't always the best practical methods in some cases like this.

 

[aznparty]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
maybe they should just cut off their hands instead...I believe the expression is when in Rome.....do as the Romans

No you are quite wrong! We should cut their hands off, then parade them naked thru the streets!

 

[konichiwa]

What a display of intelligence. Everyone jumps on al-Jazeera for displaying images of well-treated POW's, but at the same time, you advocate "cutting off" the hands of Iraqi prisoners and "parading them naked thru the streets"

Heh

 

[Alistar7]

Saddam had the "deceny" to kill them right there on the spot, without a court system, a punishment of public shame was the best they could do, I doubt they tried it again.

 

[rawoutput]

I don't see a problem with shaming people for their actions. It's not like there's a court or decent jail to hold them in.

 

[Alistar7]

It's no wonder they looted. The punishment went from instant death to being forced to walk home nude, at worst.

 

[flavio]

It's amazing what actions the war-backers deem acceptable. There is really nothing imaginable that we could do to them that would even raise a little concern is there? Nothing?

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: konichiwa
What a display of intelligence. Everyone jumps on al-Jazeera for displaying images of well-treated POW's, but at the same time, you advocate "cutting off" the hands of Iraqi prisoners and "parading them naked thru the streets"

Heh

"""well-treated POW's"""


Which POW's are you speaking of?

The ones that were lying dead on the floor that looked to have been shot in their heads, of the one's forced to speak to cameras and microphones?

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: jjones
Yeah, it may seem inappropriate, and probably is, but it appears they were going along with what some of the locals thought would be a deserved punishment and help to discourage others. Hard to say sitting in the comfort of home, but I would guess that western standards aren't always the best practical methods in some cases like this.

What like simply arresting them? Don't see a problem, with that?

Andy

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Well at least the US troops are showing some cultural competency.

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: Fencer128

Originally posted by: jjones
Yeah, it may seem inappropriate, and probably is, but it appears they were going along with what some of the locals thought would be a deserved punishment and help to discourage others. Hard to say sitting in the comfort of home, but I would guess that western standards aren't always the best practical methods in some cases like this.

What like simply arresting them? Don't see a problem, with that?

Andy

No, I don't see a problem with simply arresting them. But like I said, that's from sitting here in the comfort of my home. I don't know, and neither do you, what circumstances influenced the soldiers not to simply arrest them. Like arrest them and then do what with them? Where do you keep them and what authority is responsible for holding them? When will they see a judge or see the inside of a court room? Who defends them? Who prosecutes them?

Going along with arresting them means the entire judicial process is applicable which to me doesn't seem to exist quite yet. I don't think some of you people are following through on your thinking. You're just calling out for the simplest reaction and just applying the first step, not realizing what it completely entails if you are required to follow through the process.

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: Fencer128

Originally posted by: jjones
Yeah, it may seem inappropriate, and probably is, but it appears they were going along with what some of the locals thought would be a deserved punishment and help to discourage others. Hard to say sitting in the comfort of home, but I would guess that western standards aren't always the best practical methods in some cases like this.

What like simply arresting them? Don't see a problem, with that?

Andy

No, I don't see a problem with simply arresting them. But like I said, that's from sitting here in the comfort of my home. I don't know, and neither do you, what circumstances influenced the soldiers not to simply arrest them. Like arrest them and then do what with them? Where do you keep them and what authority is responsible for holding them? When will they see a judge or see the inside of a court room? Who defends them? Who prosecutes them?

Going along with arresting them means the entire judicial process is applicable which to me doesn't seem to exist quite yet. I don't think some of you people are following through on your thinking. You're just calling out for the simplest reaction and just applying the first step, not realizing what it completely entails if you are required to follow through the process.

Sorry - but I still don't buy that. What about the people the US has already detained? How do they deal with those? Is this going to become standard practice? Is every such act going to result in such degradation? Where do we draw the line, maybe the crowd we be ok with a quick beating - or maybe the crowd would see nothing wrong with nudity plus a little spitting. Maybe the offenders could be used as forced laborers instead? That would solve the problem of us "not knowing what to do with them".

I would hope and expect that the soldiers should be appropriately disciplined for taking matters into their own hands in this way, though I doubt they will be because who's got the authority to tell them what to do anyway? Not the civilians for sure. I would also hope that their superiors make clear what their soldier's mandate is precisely. Arrest them or chase them away.

Andy

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: konichiwa
What a display of intelligence. Everyone jumps on al-Jazeera for displaying images of well-treated POW's, but at the same time, you advocate "cutting off" the hands of Iraqi prisoners and "parading them naked thru the streets"

Heh

Would you prefer the Hussein way? Raping them, cutting off their head and leaving it on the door step of their families....

don't know about you, but I'd rather streak and retain all of my anatomy any day.

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: konichiwa
What a display of intelligence. Everyone jumps on al-Jazeera for displaying images of well-treated POW's, but at the same time, you advocate "cutting off" the hands of Iraqi prisoners and "parading them naked thru the streets"

Heh

Would you prefer the Hussein way? Raping them, cutting off their head and leaving it on the door step of their families....

don't know about you, but I'd rather streak and retain all of my anatomy any day.

You're pretty much willing to try and justify anything that goes on over there huh? There isn't anything they could do that would even make you pause for a sec right?

Parade them naked? Well they could have cut off their head so it must be ok.

Nice logic.

 

[Windi]

Would you prefer the Hussein way? Raping them, cutting off their head and leaving it on the door step of their families....

don't know about you, but I'd rather streak and retain all of my anatomy any day.

You're completely missing the point here.

"They break the rules, so we're allowed to break them too"
Don't think like that.

The soldiers want to show that they're better than the previous regime, no? Well, making someone parade naked doesn't do that. It makes the Iraqis despise the troops.

 

[rawoutput]

Originally posted by: Windi

Would you prefer the Hussein way? Raping them, cutting off their head and leaving it on the door step of their families....

don't know about you, but I'd rather streak and retain all of my anatomy any day.

You're completely missing the point here.

"They break the rules, so we're allowed to break them too"
Don't think like that.

The soldiers want to show that they're better than the previous regime, no? Well, making someone parade naked doesn't do that. It makes the Iraqis despise the troops.

How the hell would you know. The soldiers were acting on suggestions from the (non-looting) locals over there. If a couple looters are sore at US troops for getting embarassed after stealing property, then boo hoo. It beats getting your hands cut off.

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: Fencer128

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: Fencer128

Originally posted by: jjones
Yeah, it may seem inappropriate, and probably is, but it appears they were going along with what some of the locals thought would be a deserved punishment and help to discourage others. Hard to say sitting in the comfort of home, but I would guess that western standards aren't always the best practical methods in some cases like this.

What like simply arresting them? Don't see a problem, with that?

Andy

No, I don't see a problem with simply arresting them. But like I said, that's from sitting here in the comfort of my home. I don't know, and neither do you, what circumstances influenced the soldiers not to simply arrest them. Like arrest them and then do what with them? Where do you keep them and what authority is responsible for holding them? When will they see a judge or see the inside of a court room? Who defends them? Who prosecutes them?

Going along with arresting them means the entire judicial process is applicable which to me doesn't seem to exist quite yet. I don't think some of you people are following through on your thinking. You're just calling out for the simplest reaction and just applying the first step, not realizing what it completely entails if you are required to follow through the process.

Sorry - but I still don't buy that. What about the people the US has already detained? How do they deal with those? Is this going to become standard practice? Is every such act going to result in such degradation? Where do we draw the line, maybe the crowd we be ok with a quick beating - or maybe the crowd would see nothing wrong with nudity plus a little spitting. Maybe the offenders could be used as forced laborers instead? That would solve the problem of us "not knowing what to do with them".

I would hope and expect that the soldiers should be appropriately disciplined for taking matters into their own hands in this way, though I doubt they will be because who's got the authority to tell them what to do anyway? Not the civilians for sure. I would also hope that their superiors make clear what their soldier's mandate is precisely. Arrest them or chase them away.

Andy

Like I said, it's nice, simple and easy to decide that from the comfort of your home. I'd like to see what you'd say after a month in Iraq and in the same particular circumstances. Don't get me wrong, I don't condone it, but I'm not about to second guess it either.

Edit: And BTW, the superiors are responsible for the actions of the soldiers under them so I am giving my POV based upon that.

 

[Richdog]

Originally posted by: Fencer128

Originally posted by: flavio

The incident, reported in the Oslo-based daily Dagbladet, involved American soldiers who took four young Iraqi men prisoner, stripped them, burned their clothes and paraded them naked around a public park where light weapons were being stored.

More

I hope they don't make a habit of it. It's not acceptable behaviour from a professional army.


I didnt realise the American army WAS professional... anyway, as you said, its not acceptable behaviour and this is the first I've heard of it. Whatever you think of British troops, we would NEVER do something like that.

 

[UltraQuiet]

I didnt realise the American army WAS professional

Then you need to pull your head out your ass.

... anyway, as you said, its not acceptable behaviour and this is the first I've heard of it.

Agreed if they did it on their own.

Whatever you think of British troops, we would NEVER do something like that.

I think very highly of British troops but your statement is pure speculation and is not supported by historical fact.

 

[Czar]

Ultra Quiet,
3. Please respect your fellow members. PERSONAL ATTACKS WILL NOT BE TOLERATED

 

[Bigdude]

We should have killed them all, no Iraqi's deserve to live. They are all just as guilty as Saddam, of crimes against humanity. The only acceptable solution is the total extermination of the Iraqi people.

 

[rawoutput]

Originally posted by: Bigdude
We should have killed them all, no Iraqi's deserve to live. They are all just as guilty as Saddam, of crimes against humanity. The only acceptable solution is the total extermination of the Iraqi people.

The Cobra Commander Party speaks out!