U.S. Troop Deaths Up After Drop In July

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Here's a hint: success will have nothing to do with the number of troops killed in any given month.

You're absolutely right. The September report won't fail on body counts; it'll fail because the Iraqi government is splintered, has taken the month before September off, and shows no sign of reconciling to meet benchmarks before the report is released.

:laugh:

I still think security throughout the nation is more important than the political benchmarks. Why? Because I believe security is step one. The political mess is certainly regrettable, and does need to be worked on while the security situation is being fixed; but, it will definitely be easier to shuffle the political figures around given a more secure environment.

Step one: secure the area.
Step 2: settle the political disputes.
Step III: hand over security to Iraqis.
Step D: go home.

So, if step one has improved greatly by this Fall, then I will call that progress and express my desire to continue moving forward.

Wasn't that the step by step plan since April 2003? What's up? It seems like Steps 1 to 3 are repeated every couple of months.

please see my last post...

 

[Firebot]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Here's a hint: success will have nothing to do with the number of troops killed in any given month.

You're absolutely right. The September report won't fail on body counts; it'll fail because the Iraqi government is splintered, has taken the month before September off, and shows no sign of reconciling to meet benchmarks before the report is released.

:laugh:

I still think security throughout the nation is more important than the political benchmarks. Why? Because I believe security is step one. The political mess is certainly regrettable, and does need to be worked on while the security situation is being fixed; but, it will definitely be easier to shuffle the political figures around given a more secure environment.

Step one: secure the area.
Step 2: settle the political disputes.
Step III: hand over security to Iraqis.
Step D: go home.

So, if step one has improved greatly by this Fall, then I will call that progress and express my desire to continue moving forward.

Wasn't that the step by step plan since April 2003? What's up? It seems like Steps 1 to 3 are repeated every couple of months.

please see my last post...

All it says is: "It will work for real this time! Trust me!"

I see little difference between this 'surge' and the Fallujah cleansing in 2004. Neither change the political landscape that Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds simply don't like each other.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Here's a hint: success will have nothing to do with the number of troops killed in any given month.

You're absolutely right. The September report won't fail on body counts; it'll fail because the Iraqi government is splintered, has taken the month before September off, and shows no sign of reconciling to meet benchmarks before the report is released.

:laugh:

I still think security throughout the nation is more important than the political benchmarks. Why? Because I believe security is step one. The political mess is certainly regrettable, and does need to be worked on while the security situation is being fixed; but, it will definitely be easier to shuffle the political figures around given a more secure environment.

Step one: secure the area.
Step 2: settle the political disputes.
Step III: hand over security to Iraqis.
Step D: go home.

So, if step one has improved greatly by this Fall, then I will call that progress and express my desire to continue moving forward.

Wasn't that the step by step plan since April 2003? What's up? It seems like Steps 1 to 3 are repeated every couple of months.

please see my last post...

All it says is: "It will work for real this time! Trust me!"

I see little difference between this 'surge' and the Fallujah cleansing in 2004. Neither change the political landscape that Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds simply don't like each other.

no, perhaps not; but when was the last time you heard of any large-scale issues in Fallujah?

Give the surge and Patreus' new methodology a chance. We are truly seeing positive results on the ground. And, like I said above, once the security situation is more stable, it will be much easier to sort out the political mess. Many of us have known all along that the process would take several years - perhaps even a decade, or longer. Some of us are willing to pay that price and work as many years as it takes. Others, such as those calling for withdrawal now, can't stand anything that doesnt get resolved by the end of a two-hour mini-series...

Patience, tenacity, and hope are America's greatest weapons. Giving up should not be in that arsenal...

 

[Starbuck1975]

What poll? Surely not this one?

I was at the gym Monday night, and there was a story on CNN about a recent poll that showed American public opinion was showing increased confidence in the effectiveness of the surge as a strategy...followed by an array of talking heads speaking to the implications for the Republicans and Democrats should American public opinion gain confidence in Bush's strategy.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

I had this long response all written up but decided against posting it.

In the end I just wanted to ask "Just how stupid are you and other Bush haters?"

Then I realized, whats the point.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Phokus
Your side has been consistently wrong, you'll forgive me if i give the OP's argument more weight.

no, actually, I won't.

Being wrong for 4 years does not guarantee that they'll be wrong forever. This is called optimism and being hopeful - it's the opposite of defeatism and hopelessness. You should try it some time...

Perhaps you should read this.

While children's storybooks are a big hit in this administration, they are a poor substitute for reason and realism. If that's the foundation for our military strategy in Iraq, it's no wonder it's such a quagmire. Perhaps it's time for this administration and its faithful to grow up and accept that there's no such thing as the Easter Bunny.

Just a thought.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
no, perhaps not; but when was the last time you heard of any large-scale issues in Fallujah?

Might that not be because our journalists are largely afraid to leave the relative safety of the Green Zone? We see little reporting from anywhere much outside Baghdad.

Give the surge and Patreus' new methodology a chance. We are truly seeing positive results on the ground. And, like I said above, once the security situation is more stable, it will be much easier to sort out the political mess. Many of us have known all along that the process would take several years - perhaps even a decade, or longer. Some of us are willing to pay that price and work as many years as it takes. Others, such as those calling for withdrawal now, can't stand anything that doesnt get resolved by the end of a two-hour mini-series...

I'm sure that dismissive characterization is great for your ego, but as usual it denies reality. We want out of Iraq not because we are failing, but because we recognize it is wrong for us to be there. Our motives for invading Iraq were dishonest and dishonorable; our ever-changing excuses for staying equally so. We believe our continued presence in Iraq only makes things worse, not just within Iraq, but throughout the Muslim world, pouring even more fuel on an inferno of anti-American hatred. In short, we want out of Iraq because we still believe in right and wrong. It is wrong for us to occupy another nation to preserve the egos, imperialistic cravings, and windfall profits of America's war-mongers.

Patience, tenacity, and hope are America's greatest weapons. Giving up should not be in that arsenal...

Great bumper sticker. Pity that such tripe seems to be the primary "weapon" of this administration.