U.S. to Open Public Land Near Parks for Drilling

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: cubby1223
Do you guys still equate all things oil to Exxon Valdez or something? Gosh you all are pathetic. And especially in this economy, drilling = jobs.

There are many ways to create jobs which do not wreck our National Parks. How about we take that money and invest it into clean coal and new energy technologies/infrastructure instead?

Drilling for oil doesn't cost money, it makes money for the taxpayers. It's ridiculous shit like solar that hasn't done a thing for 30+ years now.

Too bad Obama wants to bankrupt coal plants, eh?

He doesn't want to bankrupt coal plants. He wants to provide them with incentive to upgrade their draconian technology so that they become clean coal power plants which is a great thing for this country.

Also, I am not willing to damage our parks and such when the majority of the fruits from the labor can be sold to other countries. No way.

Lastly, Solar is a wonderful thing if we can get it to the point of being cheaper. The only real problem with it is how much it costs to purchase the initial equipment necessary. As time goes on, it keeps getting cheaper and cheaper and cheaper. Now, the government in some states, including FL, is providing tax credits to those who utilize such technology in their homes and businesses. Such things combined with invested interest in the technological development of the stuff can bring Solar into a much more feasible reality especially when combined with all of our other sources of energy and infrastructure. It is not a question of whether or not we can. It is a question of how soon.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: winnar111
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11....html?_r=1&oref=slogin

The Bureau of Land Management has expanded its oil and gas lease program in eastern Utah to include tens of thousands of acres on or near the boundaries of three national parks, according to revised maps published this week.

Can't get much more ambiguous than that.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: Genx87
If OPEC turned down the tap to 75% and we were able to adjust our own domestic supply accordingly their influence on the market would be smaller. All they would do is cut their nose to spite their face. As it stands right now our domestic supply is so pitiful we are at the whims of these govts and the instability surrounding them.

Of course getting off oil is the ultimate goal. But that isnt going to happen for decades. Right now our biggest problem is the entrenched corn ethanol interests in washington. But that is for another thread.

The more oil we pump at home the less oil the OPEC nations have to wield power with.

That last part is a wonderful argument, but unless it was specifically written into the lease that the oil was strictly for domestic use, the Big Oil companies would just put it on the open market and sell it for the highest price anyway...
NO Profit for the American people.

I'm 100% in favor of requiring ALL oil drilled/pumped in the USA to be so limited.

What do you call that 18.75% lease royalty?[/q]

Chump change. First, the BLM and other government agencies are generally charged with providing and maintaining roads into areas with oil leases and timber leases. (A HUGE part of the US Forest Service budget gets used in such ways) I think that would make a HUGE dent in that 18.75% royalty.

WHY should the American people pay the costs for the Big Oil companies to rape the country?

More and more, I'm agreeing that the US Government should take over the oil industry for the sake of the country.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: cubby1223
Do you guys still equate all things oil to Exxon Valdez or something? Gosh you all are pathetic. And especially in this economy, drilling = jobs.

There are many ways to create jobs which do not wreck our National Parks. How about we take that money and invest it into clean coal and new energy technologies/infrastructure instead?

Take what money?

The oil companies are going to pay for it AND make new good paying jobs AND pay a crapton in taxes/royalties that you can then use to invest in new tech/infrastructure.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: Genx87
If OPEC turned down the tap to 75% and we were able to adjust our own domestic supply accordingly their influence on the market would be smaller. All they would do is cut their nose to spite their face. As it stands right now our domestic supply is so pitiful we are at the whims of these govts and the instability surrounding them.

Of course getting off oil is the ultimate goal. But that isnt going to happen for decades. Right now our biggest problem is the entrenched corn ethanol interests in washington. But that is for another thread.

The more oil we pump at home the less oil the OPEC nations have to wield power with.

That last part is a wonderful argument, but unless it was specifically written into the lease that the oil was strictly for domestic use, the Big Oil companies would just put it on the open market and sell it for the highest price anyway...
NO Profit for the American people.

I'm 100% in favor of requiring ALL oil drilled/pumped in the USA to be so limited.

Transportation costs and refining ability usually dictate where oil will be shipped. Besides, the price of oil is global so I don't understand your point. Hell, they would most likely have to pipe it to within a few miles of our domestic refineries in order to put it on a tanker to sell overseas. If our refineries can handle it its MUCH cheaper to just ship it there.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Chump change. First, the BLM and other government agencies are generally charged with providing and maintaining roads into areas with oil leases and timber leases. (A HUGE part of the US Forest Service budget gets used in such ways) I think that would make a HUGE dent in that 18.75% royalty.

WHY should the American people pay the costs for the Big Oil companies to rape the country?

More and more, I'm agreeing that the US Government should take over the oil industry for the sake of the country.

When, exactly, have we given 'Big Oil' anything? You do realize Exxon pays $40 billion a year in taxes? Chump change, eh?

I'm guessing that covers the roads off to ANWR and such several times over.

Even with your 'huge dent' into the royalty payments, they're the ones taking on the burdens and the costs of the infrastructure involved in drilling, and the risks that go along with that. Even 10% is pretty damn good given that the oil companies are doing all the heavy lifting.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Chump change. First, the BLM and other government agencies are generally charged with providing and maintaining roads into areas with oil leases and timber leases. (A HUGE part of the US Forest Service budget gets used in such ways) I think that would make a HUGE dent in that 18.75% royalty.

WHY should the American people pay the costs for the Big Oil companies to rape the country?

More and more, I'm agreeing that the US Government should take over the oil industry for the sake of the country.

Originally posted by: winnar111
When, exactly, have we given 'Big Oil' anything? You do realize Exxon pays $40 billion a year in taxes? Chump change, eh?

Does the Dick Cheney tax breaks ring any bells? How many $Billions of dollars did they gain with that one? How about the "TOP SECRET" Dick Cheney Energy Policy Meetings? I'm sure the big energy companies participated in those just out of the goodness of their collective hearts?

Originally posted by: winnar111
I'm guessing that covers the roads off to ANWR and such several times over.

Even with your 'huge dent' into the royalty payments, they're the ones taking on the burdens and the costs of the infrastructure involved in drilling, and the risks that go along with that. Even 10% is pretty damn good given that the oil companies are doing all the heavy lifting.

And HOW MUCH of those "heavy lifting costs" will they then be able to write off of their taxes? HOW MUCH of those costs will be offset by tax breaks and credits?

I'm just guessing here, but do you work for one of the oil companies in some way? Own oil company stock that you want to see large gains in again?

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: cubby1223
Do you guys still equate all things oil to Exxon Valdez or something? Gosh you all are pathetic. And especially in this economy, drilling = jobs.

There are many ways to create jobs which do not wreck our National Parks. How about we take that money and invest it into clean coal and new energy technologies/infrastructure instead?

Drilling for oil doesn't cost money, it makes money for the taxpayers. It's ridiculous shit like solar that hasn't done a thing for 30+ years now.

Too bad Obama wants to bankrupt coal plants, eh?

He doesn't want to bankrupt coal plants. He wants to provide them with incentive to upgrade their draconian technology so that they become clean coal power plants which is a great thing for this country.

Also, I am not willing to damage our parks and such when the majority of the fruits from the labor can be sold to other countries. No way.

Lastly, Solar is a wonderful thing if we can get it to the point of being cheaper. The only real problem with it is how much it costs to purchase the initial equipment necessary. As time goes on, it keeps getting cheaper and cheaper and cheaper. Now, the government in some states, including FL, is providing tax credits to those who utilize such technology in their homes and businesses. Such things combined with invested interest in the technological development of the stuff can bring Solar into a much more feasible reality especially when combined with all of our other sources of energy and infrastructure. It is not a question of whether or not we can. It is a question of how soon.

Clean coal is so expensive that it is costing the taxpayer money rather than bringing it in. The Bush presidency has dumped $1 billion or so a year into so called 'clean coal' research. Each of these 'clean coal' plants costs $1 billion+ to build. It nearly doubles the price of energy.

Instead of using what he have, we're trying to bankrupt our own technologies and import foreign oil.

Solar isn't a wonderful thing. Ridiculous Carter props aside, we can't subsidize everything forever.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: winnar111

Chump change. First, the BLM and other government agencies are generally charged with providing and maintaining roads into areas with oil leases and timber leases. (A HUGE part of the US Forest Service budget gets used in such ways) I think that would make a HUGE dent in that 18.75% royalty.

WHY should the American people pay the costs for the Big Oil companies to rape the country?

More and more, I'm agreeing that the US Government should take over the oil industry for the sake of the country.

Originally posted by: winnar111
When, exactly, have we given 'Big Oil' anything? You do realize Exxon pays $40 billion a year in taxes? Chump change, eh?

Does the Dick Cheney tax breaks ring any bells? How many $Billions of dollars did they gain with that one? How about the "TOP SECRET" Dick Cheney Energy Policy Meetings? I'm sure the big energy companies participated in those just out of the goodness of their collective hearts?

Originally posted by: winnar111
I'm guessing that covers the roads off to ANWR and such several times over.

Even with your 'huge dent' into the royalty payments, they're the ones taking on the burdens and the costs of the infrastructure involved in drilling, and the risks that go along with that. Even 10% is pretty damn good given that the oil companies are doing all the heavy lifting.

And HOW MUCH of those "heavy lifting costs" will they then be able to write off of their taxes? HOW MUCH of those costs will be offset by tax breaks and credits?

I'm just guessing here, but do you work for one of the oil companies in some way? Own oil company stock that you want to see large gains in again?

I don't see how paying 'only' $40 billion a year in taxes after so called writeoffs, credits, and breaks is us giving them money. When all is said and done, they pay more income taxes than the bottom 33 million taxpayers of this nation.

In any case, Clinton's botched 1998-1999 oil leases cost the government a lot more than the puny $2.7 billion tax break in the 2005 energy bill.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: winnar111

I don't see how paying 'only' $40 billion a year in taxes after so called writeoffs, credits, and breaks is us giving them money. When all is said and done, they pay more income taxes than the bottom 33 million taxpayers of this nation.

Considering they (collectively) probably make more in profit than the entire nation...that hardly seems unfair.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: winnar111
Clean coal is so expensive that it is costing the taxpayer money rather than bringing it in. The Bush presidency has dumped $1 billion or so a year into so called 'clean coal' research. Each of these 'clean coal' plants costs $1 billion+ to build. It nearly doubles the price of energy.

Instead of using what he have, we're trying to bankrupt our own technologies and import foreign oil.

Solar isn't a wonderful thing. Ridiculous Carter props aside, we can't subsidize everything forever.

Proof on the expense of Clean Coal even after 4-8 years of investing in it?

Oh and I love your counter argument to Solar...

Look, the bottom line here is that drilling in America is not going to get us off of foreign oil and it is not guaranteed to be cheap. We cannot even control who they sell most of it to. It is a band aid solution until we invest in a better solution at absolute best and you want to destroy our national parks to do that?

 

[alien42]

looks like a huge wrench has been thrown in the 'drill baby drill' plans in Utah. Tim DeChristopher is a true American hero and single-handedly blocked GWBs short sighted push to drill for oil in our untainted public lands.

http://www.truthdig.com/report..._monkey_wrench_guy/?ln

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: alien42
looks like a huge wrench has been thrown in the 'drill baby drill' plans in Utah. Tim DeChristopher is a true American hero and single-handedly blocked GWBs short sighted push to drill for oil in our untainted public lands.

http://www.truthdig.com/report..._monkey_wrench_guy/?ln

Fascinating. Who says one individual can't make a difference?

Will kind of suck if the guy gets brought up on charges, though. Was it really worth it?

 

[Jhhnn]

Meh. The whole point is that the Parks people have been denied the usual amount of time to comment and add their input.

It's just a chance for the Bushistas to slam whatever they want down America's throat before getting booted out the door... Unitary Executive and all that. And an expression of rightwing greed- pull it out of the ground, blow it out our tailpipes as fast as we can- a scorched earth treatment of natural resources for future generations...

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Meh. The whole point is that the Parks people have been denied the usual amount of time to comment and add their input.

It's just a chance for the Bushistas to slam whatever they want down America's throat before getting booted out the door... Unitary Executive and all that. And an expression of rightwing greed- pull it out of the ground, blow it out our tailpipes as fast as we can- a scorched earth treatment of natural resources for future generations...

Never mind that 57.4 % of Utah is FEDERAL land. Never mind that the majority of drilling will be for NATURAL GAS.

Put this shit up for a vote before all taxpayers, and it will blow your right wing greed theory back up your ass where it came from.

That being said, I do prefer we use up the reserves of the rest of the world before we use our own, it just makes good sense.

 

[Jhhnn]

Whole fleets of vehicles are natural gas powered, Ozoned, and drilling for more allows more oil to be allocated for vehicle fuel.

And, uhh, the majority of people were all for invading Iraq, at the time, all for cutting taxes at the top in pursuit of trickle-down economic goodness flimflam, and very, very happy when they could refi for 125% of ridiculously overblown housing valuations, too...

The story of the Bush Admin has been to be careful of what you wish for, because they probably put the idea in your head in the first place, and because it won't be what you expected, either...

The Rightwing has been pumpin' sunshine up America's skirt since the 80's...

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Whole fleets of vehicles are natural gas powered, Ozoned, and drilling for more allows more oil to be allocated for vehicle fuel.

And, uhh, the majority of people were all for invading Iraq, at the time, all for cutting taxes at the top in pursuit of trickle-down economic goodness flimflam, and very, very happy when they could refi for 125% of ridiculously overblown housing valuations, too...

The story of the Bush Admin has been to be careful of what you wish for, because they probably put the idea in your head in the first place, and because it won't be what you expected, either...

The Rightwing has been pumpin' sunshine up America's skirt since the 80's...

lol... talk about pumpin' sunshine...

There is little to no reason to oppose drilling and it has nothing to do with the typical liberal whining about "trickle-down", Iraq, or housing.

 

[Schadenfroh]

What are the estimates for the number of jobs that drilling in Utah would create?

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: alien42
looks like a huge wrench has been thrown in the 'drill baby drill' plans in Utah. Tim DeChristopher is a true American hero and single-handedly blocked GWBs short sighted push to drill for oil in our untainted public lands.

http://www.truthdig.com/report..._monkey_wrench_guy/?ln

Just terminate his bid and give it to the next guy, then throw him in jail on the 30th.

If the ecofundies want to buy land and not drill it, all the more power to them, as long as they make the payments.

 

[alien42]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: alien42
looks like a huge wrench has been thrown in the 'drill baby drill' plans in Utah. Tim DeChristopher is a true American hero and single-handedly blocked GWBs short sighted push to drill for oil in our untainted public lands.

http://www.truthdig.com/report..._monkey_wrench_guy/?ln

Just terminate his bid and give it to the next guy, then throw him in jail on the 30th.

If the ecofundies want to buy land and not drill it, all the more power to them, as long as they make the payments.

not surprisingly, that went right over your head. he bid on tracts that others won which makes the results void.

of course we are sitting here with a greater supply of oil than demand for it in a devastated economy and you still want to 'drill baby drill'. we are also on the verge of finally making alternative and environmentally safer fuels a reality and you are stuck in your little la-la land of ignorance. thankfully we will make progress without you and your ilk.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: alien42

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: alien42
looks like a huge wrench has been thrown in the 'drill baby drill' plans in Utah. Tim DeChristopher is a true American hero and single-handedly blocked GWBs short sighted push to drill for oil in our untainted public lands.

http://www.truthdig.com/report..._monkey_wrench_guy/?ln

Just terminate his bid and give it to the next guy, then throw him in jail on the 30th.

If the ecofundies want to buy land and not drill it, all the more power to them, as long as they make the payments.

not surprisingly, that went right over your head. he bid on tracts that others won which makes the results void.

of course we are sitting here with a greater supply of oil than demand for it in a devastated economy and you still want to 'drill baby drill'. we are also on the verge of finally making alternative and environmentally safer fuels a reality and you are stuck in your little la-la land of ignorance. thankfully we will make progress without you and your ilk.

What alternative energy? Oil is still by far the cheapest and most convenient source of energy we have.

The results aren't void....he still has to pay the bill.

10-15 years of playing catcher in prison for Bubba might teach this guy a lesson, though.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: alien42

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: alien42
looks like a huge wrench has been thrown in the 'drill baby drill' plans in Utah. Tim DeChristopher is a true American hero and single-handedly blocked GWBs short sighted push to drill for oil in our untainted public lands.

http://www.truthdig.com/report..._monkey_wrench_guy/?ln

Just terminate his bid and give it to the next guy, then throw him in jail on the 30th.

If the ecofundies want to buy land and not drill it, all the more power to them, as long as they make the payments.

not surprisingly, that went right over your head. he bid on tracts that others won which makes the results void.

of course we are sitting here with a greater supply of oil than demand for it in a devastated economy and you still want to 'drill baby drill'. we are also on the verge of finally making alternative and environmentally safer fuels a reality and you are stuck in your little la-la land of ignorance. thankfully we will make progress without you and your ilk.

What alternative energy? Oil is still by far the cheapest and most convenient source of energy we have.

The results aren't void....he still has to pay the bill.

10-15 years of playing catcher in prison for Bubba might teach this guy a lesson, though.

Yeah, a good decade in prison should teach that guy not to mildly mess with an auction! This is completely un-insane.

Oh Winnar, can't you give the world a Christmas present and keep your crazy stupidity to yourself for a day?

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: alien42

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: alien42
looks like a huge wrench has been thrown in the 'drill baby drill' plans in Utah. Tim DeChristopher is a true American hero and single-handedly blocked GWBs short sighted push to drill for oil in our untainted public lands.

http://www.truthdig.com/report..._monkey_wrench_guy/?ln

Just terminate his bid and give it to the next guy, then throw him in jail on the 30th.

If the ecofundies want to buy land and not drill it, all the more power to them, as long as they make the payments.

not surprisingly, that went right over your head. he bid on tracts that others won which makes the results void.

of course we are sitting here with a greater supply of oil than demand for it in a devastated economy and you still want to 'drill baby drill'. we are also on the verge of finally making alternative and environmentally safer fuels a reality and you are stuck in your little la-la land of ignorance. thankfully we will make progress without you and your ilk.

What alternative energy? Oil is still by far the cheapest and most convenient source of energy we have.

The results aren't void....he still has to pay the bill.

10-15 years of playing catcher in prison for Bubba might teach this guy a lesson, though.

So you're going to spend 500k in tax money to "teach someone a lesson"? The prison system and defense department are the two most bloated pieces of government.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: alien42

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: alien42
looks like a huge wrench has been thrown in the 'drill baby drill' plans in Utah. Tim DeChristopher is a true American hero and single-handedly blocked GWBs short sighted push to drill for oil in our untainted public lands.

http://www.truthdig.com/report..._monkey_wrench_guy/?ln

Just terminate his bid and give it to the next guy, then throw him in jail on the 30th.

If the ecofundies want to buy land and not drill it, all the more power to them, as long as they make the payments.

not surprisingly, that went right over your head. he bid on tracts that others won which makes the results void.

of course we are sitting here with a greater supply of oil than demand for it in a devastated economy and you still want to 'drill baby drill'. we are also on the verge of finally making alternative and environmentally safer fuels a reality and you are stuck in your little la-la land of ignorance. thankfully we will make progress without you and your ilk.

What alternative energy? Oil is still by far the cheapest and most convenient source of energy we have.

The results aren't void....he still has to pay the bill.

10-15 years of playing catcher in prison for Bubba might teach this guy a lesson, though.

So you're going to spend 500k in tax money to "teach someone a lesson"? The prison system and defense department are the two most bloated pieces of government.

He fraudulently bought $2 million in land with no intention of paying for it and would be robbing taxpayers. Unless he starts paying up, $500k is only 25% of that.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: alien42

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: alien42
looks like a huge wrench has been thrown in the 'drill baby drill' plans in Utah. Tim DeChristopher is a true American hero and single-handedly blocked GWBs short sighted push to drill for oil in our untainted public lands.

http://www.truthdig.com/report..._monkey_wrench_guy/?ln

Just terminate his bid and give it to the next guy, then throw him in jail on the 30th.

If the ecofundies want to buy land and not drill it, all the more power to them, as long as they make the payments.

not surprisingly, that went right over your head. he bid on tracts that others won which makes the results void.

of course we are sitting here with a greater supply of oil than demand for it in a devastated economy and you still want to 'drill baby drill'. we are also on the verge of finally making alternative and environmentally safer fuels a reality and you are stuck in your little la-la land of ignorance. thankfully we will make progress without you and your ilk.

What alternative energy? Oil is still by far the cheapest and most convenient source of energy we have.

The results aren't void....he still has to pay the bill.

10-15 years of playing catcher in prison for Bubba might teach this guy a lesson, though.

So you're going to spend 500k in tax money to "teach someone a lesson"? The prison system and defense department are the two most bloated pieces of government.

He fraudulently bought $2 million in land with no intention of paying for it and would be robbing taxpayers. Unless he starts paying up, $500k is only 25% of that.

We better arrest all those people who bought 500k homes on a 35k salary.