U.S. SOLDIER BURNED IN EFFIGY AT PORTLAND ANTI-WAR PROTEST...

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: dualsmp
Anyone remember the Piss Christ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ

Come on folks, don't fall down the dark hole of restricting free speech because some symbol is used or displayed in someway you don't like. I'm sure if it was the Piss Swastika lots of folks would support it, however I'm sure some would be offended regardless. It's a two way street, so depending on your perspective some will see things in a different way.

The problem with 'piss christ' was it was government PAID for, thats why people were upset.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Gaard
I remember reading a comment by Moonbeam a few years ago...

"The day you can't burn the flag is the day you should."

That's a really REALLY good quote. May have to sig that.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: dualsmp
Anyone remember the Piss Christ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ

Come on folks, don't fall down the dark hole of restricting free speech because some symbol is used or displayed in someway you don't like. I'm sure if it was the Piss Swastika lots of folks would support it, however I'm sure some would be offended regardless. It's a two way street, so depending on your perspective some will see things in a different way.

The problem with 'piss christ' was it was government PAID for, thats why people were upset.

My only problem with it was that people who were upset by it have no problem with government money going to churches, or to art that they approve of. It's all or nothing...either the government can give money to people and/or organizations or it can't. You don't get to establish 'standards' of what it can be used for because those standards (no matter who makes them) are going to be biased.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: dualsmp
Anyone remember the Piss Christ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ

Come on folks, don't fall down the dark hole of restricting free speech because some symbol is used or displayed in someway you don't like. I'm sure if it was the Piss Swastika lots of folks would support it, however I'm sure some would be offended regardless. It's a two way street, so depending on your perspective some will see things in a different way.

I hope you see the problem that would arise if the government started putting limits and conditions on the type of art, right? Wouldn't that be pretty much against the whole purpose of art? Do you need a federal bureau of Thomas Kinkade drawings?

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Next it will be illegal to burn an effigy of the worst president in US history?

Carter???

 

[oldman420]

I shurly do not agree with what these fools did but I would die to protect their right to do it.

 

[dyna]

When you burn the flag you denounce all things American. From there on why should you be protected by the amendents it represents? You just denounced it. You just burned an American solider in effigy. You have denounced the US military. If you get captured by a terrorist why should they risk their lives to save you?

If you want to overthrow the American government burn the flag on public American soil. That is a good place to start.

I only suggest that flag burning be restricted in a public venue. In your own private property you can have a bonfire of all the things American, I could care less.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: dahunan
Next it will be illegal to burn an effigy of the worst president in US history?

Carter???

Prior to Bush he would have been the worst in the last 50 years.

 

[kage69]

Thump said it best. :thumbsup:

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: dyna

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: dyna
Its sounds like you have a more anarchist view to free speech. I do think there should be some restrictions, especially in a public venue.

Oh, I'm quite sure you do! You're probably eager to suppress anything you don't agree with. As Sean Hannity would say, you're a great American!

😛

I'm assuming you would say, I'm a bad American!

Maybe I am or am not being a great american by wanting to restrict offending/racist/unpatriotic burnings in our town centers. Its interpreted as free speech but its more of an "free action" in my opinion and its crossed the line for being consider free speech. They could have easily posted a sign that said, "All soldiers should burn in hell." While I don't support that, I think that should be protected as free speech.

I wouldn't call you a "bad American," rather I'd call you someone who has a dangerously misinformed opinion on the First Amendment.

... or perhaps just a different opinion on it, or a varied interpretation? "dangerously misinformed" seems a bit extreme, doesnt it?

After all, how "dangerous" is this online disagreement?

what a crock.

that said, I happen to agree that the 1st amendment gives them to right to burn the effigy... but that also doesnt change the fact that I think it was nonetheless an ignorant disgrace.

It's dangerous in the sense that there are American citizens as badly misinformed on reality as you are who actually believe it. You, for example, still have the gall to post in a thread where you got completely neutered on the reality of military pay. Fake GI Joes are not cool.

listen here homie, I am intimately familiar with "grunts," and their pay - and I still contend that I've never met one in it for the money. Eskimo is flat wrong in his assessment. After 10 years, even as an E6 I take a VERY substantial paycut whenever I am mobilized, and even with tax exemption in the combat zones, my pay si far from stellar. So who got "neutered" again? ya... right.

Second, What is I believe? If you were paying attention (doubtful), you'd see that I said that I agree that these protesters have the right to do what they did, but that does not make what they did any less disgusting.

consider yourself "neutered"

g'day.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: dyna
When you burn the flag you denounce all things American. From there on why should you be protected by the amendents it represents? You just denounced it. You just burned an American solider in effigy. You have denounced the US military. If you get captured by a terrorist why should they risk their lives to save you?

If you want to overthrow the American government burn the flag on public American soil. That is a good place to start.

I only suggest that flag burning be restricted in a public venue. In your own private property you can have a bonfire of all the things American, I could care less.

We (the military) spend plenty of time rescuing scumbags from other scumbags. When it comes to American lives, we do not discriminate based on the victims' beliefs. We simply save their ass and then get as far away from them as possible... 😀

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: dyna
When you burn the flag you denounce all things American. From there on why should you be protected by the amendents it represents? You just denounced it. You just burned an American solider in effigy. You have denounced the US military. If you get captured by a terrorist why should they risk their lives to save you?

If you want to overthrow the American government burn the flag on public American soil. That is a good place to start.

I only suggest that flag burning be restricted in a public venue. In your own private property you can have a bonfire of all the things American, I could care less.

We (the military) spend plenty of time rescuing scumbags from other scumbags. When it comes to American lives, we do not discriminate based on the victims' beliefs. We simply save their ass and then get as far away from them as possible... 😀

We discriminated by our handling of Katrina...

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: dyna
When you burn the flag you denounce all things American. From there on why should you be protected by the amendents it represents? You just denounced it. You just burned an American solider in effigy. You have denounced the US military. If you get captured by a terrorist why should they risk their lives to save you?

If you want to overthrow the American government burn the flag on public American soil. That is a good place to start.

I only suggest that flag burning be restricted in a public venue. In your own private property you can have a bonfire of all the things American, I could care less.

We (the military) spend plenty of time rescuing scumbags from other scumbags. When it comes to American lives, we do not discriminate based on the victims' beliefs. We simply save their ass and then get as far away from them as possible... 😀

We discriminated by our handling of Katrina...

😕

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: dyna
When you burn the flag you denounce all things American. From there on why should you be protected by the amendents it represents? You just denounced it. You just burned an American solider in effigy. You have denounced the US military. If you get captured by a terrorist why should they risk their lives to save you?

If you want to overthrow the American government burn the flag on public American soil. That is a good place to start.

I only suggest that flag burning be restricted in a public venue. In your own private property you can have a bonfire of all the things American, I could care less.

The amendment protects the speech.. the speech doesn't need to be approved first before having the amendment applied to it.. hence the WHOLE PURPOSE of the amendment!

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: dyna
When you burn the flag you denounce all things American. From there on why should you be protected by the amendents it represents? You just denounced it. You just burned an American solider in effigy. You have denounced the US military. If you get captured by a terrorist why should they risk their lives to save you?

If you want to overthrow the American government burn the flag on public American soil. That is a good place to start.

I only suggest that flag burning be restricted in a public venue. In your own private property you can have a bonfire of all the things American, I could care less.

The amendment protects the speech.. the speech doesn't need to be approved first before having the amendment applied to it.. hence the WHOLE PURPOSE of the amendment!

Hence why I called his views "dangerous." Because they are.

 

[dyna]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: dyna
When you burn the flag you denounce all things American. From there on why should you be protected by the amendents it represents? You just denounced it. You just burned an American solider in effigy. You have denounced the US military. If you get captured by a terrorist why should they risk their lives to save you?

If you want to overthrow the American government burn the flag on public American soil. That is a good place to start.

I only suggest that flag burning be restricted in a public venue. In your own private property you can have a bonfire of all the things American, I could care less.

The amendment protects the speech.. the speech doesn't need to be approved first before having the amendment applied to it.. hence the WHOLE PURPOSE of the amendment!

That was confusing. Where did I say that speech needs to be approved?

 

[dyna]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: dyna
When you burn the flag you denounce all things American. From there on why should you be protected by the amendents it represents? You just denounced it. You just burned an American solider in effigy. You have denounced the US military. If you get captured by a terrorist why should they risk their lives to save you?

If you want to overthrow the American government burn the flag on public American soil. That is a good place to start.

I only suggest that flag burning be restricted in a public venue. In your own private property you can have a bonfire of all the things American, I could care less.

The amendment protects the speech.. the speech doesn't need to be approved first before having the amendment applied to it.. hence the WHOLE PURPOSE of the amendment!

Hence why I called his views "dangerous." Because they are.

Maybe we can't agree on my opinion but would you agree that if you denounce all the rights available to you by your country that you should no longer be protected by those rights?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: dyna
When you burn the flag you denounce all things American. From there on why should you be protected by the amendents it represents? You just denounced it. You just burned an American solider in effigy. You have denounced the US military. If you get captured by a terrorist why should they risk their lives to save you?

If you want to overthrow the American government burn the flag on public American soil. That is a good place to start.

I only suggest that flag burning be restricted in a public venue. In your own private property you can have a bonfire of all the things American, I could care less.

GUYS YOU HAVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH UNTIL YOU SAY SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T LIKE. I AM SURE THAT THIS IS A WELL THOUGHT OUT POINT OF VIEW THAT WILL NEVER COME BACK TO HAUNT ME LATER.

 

[dyna]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: dyna
When you burn the flag you denounce all things American. From there on why should you be protected by the amendents it represents? You just denounced it. You just burned an American solider in effigy. You have denounced the US military. If you get captured by a terrorist why should they risk their lives to save you?

If you want to overthrow the American government burn the flag on public American soil. That is a good place to start.

I only suggest that flag burning be restricted in a public venue. In your own private property you can have a bonfire of all the things American, I could care less.

GUYS YOU HAVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH UNTIL YOU SAY SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T LIKE. I AM SURE THAT THIS IS A WELL THOUGHT OUT POINT OF VIEW THAT WILL NEVER COME BACK TO HAUNT ME LATER.

YOU MUST HAVE A BROKEN CAPSLOCK.

 

[Steeplerot]

Burning the flag is not denouncing the good things about being American, it is the opposite, the system/what the military is being used for does not represent America nowadays in many ways, it is a denunciation of what is wrong with the country.

Once you figure this out get back to us, till then foolish blind patriotism like this is one of the concepts of why people torch silly jingoistic symbols, deal with it Dyna or you are always welcome to leave for some craphole like Zimbabwe.

 

[dyna]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Burning the flag is not denouncing the good things about being American, it is the opposite, the system/what the military is being used for does not represent America nowadays in many ways, it is a denunciation of what is wrong with the country.

Once you figure this out get back to us, till then foolish blind patriotism like this is one of the concepts of why people torch silly jingoistic symbols, deal with it.

Burning the flag is patriotic?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
listen here homie, I am intimately familiar with "grunts," and their pay - and I still contend that I've never met one in it for the money. Eskimo is flat wrong in his assessment. After 10 years, even as an E6 I take a VERY substantial paycut whenever I am mobilized, and even with tax exemption in the combat zones, my pay si far from stellar. So who got "neutered" again? ya... right.

Second, What is I believe? If you were paying attention (doubtful), you'd see that I said that I agree that these protesters have the right to do what they did, but that does not make what they did any less disgusting.

consider yourself "neutered"

g'day.

Well, according to our good friends at the department of defense, money for college was the reason cited by 32% of recruits, job training was 25%, and flat out money was 12%. Duty to country came in at 11%.

This means that more then 2/3rds of people joining the military were stating that economic reasons were their primary motivation for joining. Maybe palehorse is a proud member of the 83rd Unreasonably Patriotic and Altruistic 11% Duty to Country Airborne Division, but if not... chances are 2 out of every 3 grunts he meets joined for economic reasons of their own admission.

I'm sure the DoD hates America too though, and were just making those statistics up... because we all know that the people in our military are heroes that do it out of the goodness of their hearts because they love freedom. That makes a LOT more sense then thinking that people in the military like their country just fine, but that they consider finding a way to put food on the table before they consider The Defense Of Freedom Worldwide.

Then again, who am I to speak? We have palehorse's anecdotal evidence! Maybe everyone in the military really does act like people do in those crappy John Wayne war movies. I guess I was too busy hating America, Freedom, and looking for ways to sell us out to the Islamofascists to notice.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: dyna

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Burning the flag is not denouncing the good things about being American, it is the opposite, the system/what the military is being used for does not represent America nowadays in many ways, it is a denunciation of what is wrong with the country.

Once you figure this out get back to us, till then foolish blind patriotism like this is one of the concepts of why people torch silly jingoistic symbols, deal with it.

Burning the flag is patriotic?

When it is done as a sign of distress that our govt is not representing what is good about America, yes.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
We discriminated by our handling of Katrina...

That is a bunch of crap. Do you really think anyone in the government said "there are only blacks and poor people in N.O. leave them to die?"

Get away from the hate Bush rhetoric and you'll learn that the post Katrina rescue mission was the largest operation of its kind in the history of the country.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: dyna

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Burning the flag is not denouncing the good things about being American, it is the opposite, the system/what the military is being used for does not represent America nowadays in many ways, it is a denunciation of what is wrong with the country.

Once you figure this out get back to us, till then foolish blind patriotism like this is one of the concepts of why people torch silly jingoistic symbols, deal with it.

Burning the flag is patriotic?

When it is done as a sign of distress that our govt is not representing what is good about America, yes.

I completely disagree. The flag is a symbol of our country, not our government and/or what they may be doing that you or someone else disagrees with.