U.S. snipers accused of 'baiting' Iraqis

[techs]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200..._st_pe/us_iraq_snipers

Army snipers hunting insurgents in Iraq were under orders to "bait" their targets with suspicious materials, such as detonation cords, and then kill whoever picked up the items, according to the defense attorney for a soldier accused of planting evidence on an Iraqi he killed. Gary Myers, an attorney for Sgt. Evan Vela, said his client had acted "pursuant to orders."

"We believe that our client has done nothing more than he was instructed to do by superiors," Myers said in a telephone interview.

Myers and Vela's father, Curtis Carnahan of Idaho Falls, Idaho, said in separate interviews that sworn statements and testimony in the cases of two other accused Ranger snipers indicate that the Army has a classified program that encourages snipers to "bait" potential targets and then kill whoever takes the bait.

The Army on Monday declined to confirm such a program exists.



OMFG! If this is true, it is the stupidest thing yet we have done in Iraq.
Clearly we are trying to win the support of the Iraqi people.
By killing them indiscrimately.

 

[Nebor]

I posted about a brother of mine doing exactly this months ago, and everyone decried him as a killer. :roll:

 

[ayabe]

Surprisingly I don't have a problem with this.

Now that this is out in the open, they will use children which will negate the strategy.

 

[manowar821]

Wow, any person doing this is not worthy of the title "human". Fricking monsters.

We're really setting an example, aren't we Nebor?

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...eadid=2100035&catid=52

 

[Appledrop]

wow sickening if true

 

[ayabe]

Someone going to pick up material to make a bomb knows what it is and most likely will employ this material against Iraqi's and our guys.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: manowar821
Wow, any person doing this is not worthy of the title "human". Fricking monsters.

We're really setting an example, aren't we Nebor?

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...eadid=2100035&catid=52

I said we're the decider, not the example setter. GOSH! :roll:

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: ayabe
Someone going to pick up material to make a bomb knows what it is and most likely will employ this material against Iraqi's and our guys.

Huh? Is it labeled "Bomb Parts"?

 

[Sinsear]

I have no qualms with this tactic.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: ayabe
Someone going to pick up material to make a bomb knows what it is and most likely will employ this material against Iraqi's and our guys.

Huh? Is it labeled "Bomb Parts"?

Do you even know what det cord is? It's very recognizable to the people familiar with it and is only used for one purpose.

 

[Fern]

Well techs, if you can find anything, no matter the source - substantiated or not, to make the USA or it's military look bad you'll post it lickity-split.

How about some of the other paragraphs you left out?

Boyce also said there are no classified programs that authorize the murder of Iraqi civilians or the use of "drop weapons" to make killings appeared to be legally justified, which is what Vela and the two other snipers are accused of doing.

The Post said that although it doesn't appear that the three alleged shootings were specifically part of the classified program, defense attorneys argue that the program may have encouraged them by blurring the legal lines in a complex war zone.

So, even if such a program exists, which the military denies, these soldiers weren't even in it according to the press.

I mean WTF???

Defense attorneys? These are same people who come up with sh*t like "twinkies made my client into a killer", or the excuse that they played too many FPS PC games.

Gimmee a f'ing break. Jeebus

Fern

 

[Nebor]

The only way this could be made better is if US SF operators posed as terrorists on the internet and talked to these other terrorists in chat rooms:

B3ard3db0mber23: So like, my mullah went out of town and left me $5M Iraqi for food, but I was thinking about buying some bomb parts
Jih4d43v3r: That sounds hot.
B3ard3db0mber23: You want to come over and maybe do something?
Jih4d43v3r: Like build a bomb?
B3ard3db0mber23: I don't know... I've never done that before. It would be my first time
Jih4d43v3r: Don't worry, I've done it tons of times, it'll be fun!
B3ard3db0mber23: Well... ok! I'll leave the front door unlocked and the bomb parts on the kitchen table.

 

[Aimster]

so if a kid picks it up. blow their head off.

if anyone even goes near it to figure out what it is, blow their head off

not like we are curious creatures. We will simply ignore something sitting there on the side of the street.

 

[WelshBloke]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: ayabe
Someone going to pick up material to make a bomb knows what it is and most likely will employ this material against Iraqi's and our guys.

Huh? Is it labeled "Bomb Parts"?

Do you even know what det cord is? It's very recognizable to the people familiar with it and is only used for one purpose.

No I dont know what one looks like, so if I saw one lying on the ground and picked it up to have a closer look I'd deserve to be shot in the head?

 

[Sinsear]

Originally posted by: Nebor
The only way this could be made better is if US SF operators posed as terrorists on the internet and talked to these other terrorists in chat rooms:

B3ard3db0mber23: So like, my mullah went out of town and left me $5M Iraqi for food, but I was thinking about buying some bomb parts
Jih4d43v3r: That sounds hot.
B3ard3db0mber23: You want to come over and maybe do something?
Jih4d43v3r: Like build a bomb?
B3ard3db0mber23: I don't know... I've never done that before. It would be my first time
Jih4d43v3r: Don't worry, I've done it tons of times, it'll be fun!
B3ard3db0mber23: Well... ok! I'll leave the front door unlocked and the bomb parts on the kitchen table.

:laugh:

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: ayabe
Someone going to pick up material to make a bomb knows what it is and most likely will employ this material against Iraqi's and our guys.

Huh? Is it labeled "Bomb Parts"?

Do you even know what det cord is? It's very recognizable to the people familiar with it and is only used for one purpose.

I don't know what it is, but I would probably pick it up and examine it if I saw some laying around. If it looked valuable and I needed the money I might even walk off with it.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: ayabe
Someone going to pick up material to make a bomb knows what it is and most likely will employ this material against Iraqi's and our guys.

Huh? Is it labeled "Bomb Parts"?

Do you even know what det cord is? It's very recognizable to the people familiar with it and is only used for one purpose.

No I dont know what one looks like, so if I saw one lying on the ground and picked it up to have a closer look I'd deserve to be shot in the head?

YES.. Iraqis should be shot in the head just for being an Iraqi in their own country wishing Americans weren't there killing them and their countrymen

Does anyone even remember where the 9/11 hijackers were from and where they trained? Or do we just want blood?

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: ayabe
Someone going to pick up material to make a bomb knows what it is and most likely will employ this material against Iraqi's and our guys.

Huh? Is it labeled "Bomb Parts"?

Do you even know what det cord is? It's very recognizable to the people familiar with it and is only used for one purpose.

No I dont know what one looks like, so if I saw one lying on the ground and picked it up to have a closer look I'd deserve to be shot in the head?

With the amount of bombings that occur daily in Baghdad I would think most people would be wary of such things.

But this is pointless the people crying in this thread are as Fern said looking for any excuse to bash the military.

I am as against the war as the rest of you, but this isn't a big deal. None of the ridiculous accusations being put forth in this thread has any basis in what was reported.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Fern
Well techs, if you can find anything, no matter the source - substantiated or not, to make the USA or it's military look bad you'll post it lickity-split.

How about some of the other paragraphs you left out?

Boyce also said there are no classified programs that authorize the murder of Iraqi civilians or the use of "drop weapons" to make killings appeared to be legally justified, which is what Vela and the two other snipers are accused of doing.

The Post said that although it doesn't appear that the three alleged shootings were specifically part of the classified program, defense attorneys argue that the program may have encouraged them by blurring the legal lines in a complex war zone.

So, even if such a program exists, which the military denies, these soldiers weren't even in it according to the press.

I mean WTF???

Defense attorneys? These are same people who come up with sh*t like "twinkies made my client into a killer", or the excuse that they played too many FPS PC games.

Gimmee a f'ing break. Jeebus

Fern

yes, The military is always ready to fess up immediately to things like this... just like they did with the Iran-Contra affair and other BS

 

[Sinsear]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: ayabe
Someone going to pick up material to make a bomb knows what it is and most likely will employ this material against Iraqi's and our guys.

Huh? Is it labeled "Bomb Parts"?

Do you even know what det cord is? It's very recognizable to the people familiar with it and is only used for one purpose.

No I dont know what one looks like, so if I saw one lying on the ground and picked it up to have a closer look I'd deserve to be shot in the head?

YES.. Iraqis should be shot in the head just for being an Iraqi in their own country wishing Americans weren't there killing them and their countrymen

Does anyone even remember where the 9/11 hijackers were from and where they trained? Or do we just want blood?

This is not a 9/11 thread. Thanks for playing, troll along somewhere else

 

[Starbuck1975]

I have read a number of stories on the baiting tactics. From what I have read and heard, the snipers created caches of various weapons and supplies that could be used to make roadside bombs...mirroring the drop point caches used by the insurgents as a means of suppplying its operatives. They were not simply dropping a piece of det cord on the ground and shooting anyone that approaches it.

So the Army sets up dummy caches as a means of drawing out insurgents, and subsequently kills them...seems like a fairly straightforward and very clever tactic...certainly gives insurgents reason to pause or question the security of their own cache locations...is it one of ours, or is it an American trap?

To combat the insurgency, we have to draw them out of hiding, and use precision weapons to kill them, thereby mitigating the threat of further collatoral damage...a far better tactic than indiscriminate shootouts in Iraqi neighborhoods, and a form of psychological warfare to keep the insurgency on the defensive.

The Soviets used a similar tactic with cold weather gear and food caches during the battles of Moscow and Stalingrad.

I would question this tactic if stories start to emerge that the snipers are indiscriminately shooting anyone that approaches these caches...particularly children...otherwise, if the snipers have rules of engagement and follow them, I have no problem with this tactic.

 

[Sinsear]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I have read a number of stories on the baiting tactics. From what I have read and heard, the snipers created caches of various weapons and supplies that could be used to make roadside bombs...mirroring the drop point caches used by the insurgents as a means of suppplying its operatives. They were not simply dropping a piece of det cord on the ground and shooting anyone that approaches it.

So the Army sets up dummy caches as a means of drawing out insurgents, and subsequently kills them...seems like a fairly straightforward and very clever tactic...certainly gives insurgents reason to pause or question the security of their own cache locations...is it one of ours, or is it an American trap?

To combat the insurgency, we have to draw them out of hiding, and use precision weapons to kill them, thereby mitigating the threat of further collatoral damage...a far better tactic than indiscriminate shootouts in Iraqi neighborhoods, and a form of psychological warfare to keep the insurgency on the defensive.

The Soviets used a similar tactic with cold weather gear and food caches during the battles of Moscow and Stalingrad.

I would question this tactic if stories start to emerge that the snipers are indiscriminately shooting anyone that approaches these caches...particularly children...otherwise, if the snipers have rules of engagement and follow them, I have no problem with this tactic.

But the children.........

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: ayabe
Someone going to pick up material to make a bomb knows what it is and most likely will employ this material against Iraqi's and our guys.

Huh? Is it labeled "Bomb Parts"?

Do you even know what det cord is? It's very recognizable to the people familiar with it and is only used for one purpose.

No I dont know what one looks like, so if I saw one lying on the ground and picked it up to have a closer look I'd deserve to be shot in the head?

With the amount of bombings that occur daily in Baghdad I would think most people would be wary of such things.

But this is pointless the people crying in this thread are as Fern said looking for any excuse to bash the military.

I am as against the war as the rest of you, but this isn't a big deal. None of the ridiculous accusations being put forth in this thread has any basis in what was reported.

The point is people who do not know what something is may pick it up because they are curious. You think it is justified to kill Iraqis for being ordinary curious humans?

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I have read a number of stories on the baiting tactics. From what I have read and heard, the snipers created caches of various weapons and supplies that could be used to make roadside bombs...mirroring the drop point caches used by the insurgents as a means of suppplying its operatives. They were not simply dropping a piece of det cord on the ground and shooting anyone that approaches it.

So the Army sets up dummy caches as a means of drawing out insurgents, and subsequently kills them...seems like a fairly straightforward and very clever tactic...certainly gives insurgents reason to pause or question the security of their own cache locations...is it one of ours, or is it an American trap?

To combat the insurgency, we have to draw them out of hiding, and use precision weapons to kill them, thereby mitigating the threat of further collatoral damage...a far better tactic than indiscriminate shootouts in Iraqi neighborhoods, and a form of psychological warfare to keep the insurgency on the defensive.

The Soviets used a similar tactic with cold weather gear and food caches during the battles of Moscow and Stalingrad.

I would question this tactic if stories start to emerge that the snipers are indiscriminately shooting anyone that approaches these caches...particularly children...otherwise, if the snipers have rules of engagement and follow them, I have no problem with this tactic.

Are the people picking up the items wearing shirts that say "I am an insurgent" ?

 

[jackschmittusa]

Can't wait till the Iraqi snipers start leaving Playboys and bottles of Jack out as bait.