U.S. Navy ship attacked!

[BLACKBEARD]

I do not want a war or a retaliatory strike. What I want is to "marginalize" the arab countries. They have proven that they are
not advanced enough to join the world of the 21rst century. What I would propose is that we make their oil meaningless in terms of our daily lives.
It is time for an energy policy which makes the United States independent of the thinking and deeds of medieval primitives whose sole contribution
to world history has been worship my god or die.
If you do not want to pump your hard earned dollars into a failed so called "peace" process then suport an energy policy which does not count
U.S. servicemen and women as part of the "cost of doing business"
As far as I am concerned we need to Drill for Oil, build nuke plants, squeeze the Colorado shales, go solar, whatever it takes! And to hell
with the goddamn enviros, their lives and their wishes are not worth squat
compared to the crew of the Cole.
Whether it be north slope or off the East coast; I say go for it and to
hell with the reindeer and the fsking whales.

johnk

 

[Opinionated]

DABANSHEE et al. - Please take all the Israeli/Palestinian stuff to the new thread OK?

Thanks.

Opinionated

 

[Opinionated]

As the Oil question is remotely related to the reason the USS Cole was in the region, I'll respond here...

BLACKBEARD - I wholeheartedly agree with you that we need to go all out to develop a comprehensive energy policy to minimize 9preferably eliminate) our dependence on foreign sources of energy. BUT, I think we can do it without totally disregarding the impact on the environment. The fact is, that we have the technology NOW to develop additional oil reserves AND coal reserves (believe it or not) such that we will not significantly impact the environment (air or water). In fact, if we do it right, we can actually accomplish our goal of energy independence AND reduce overall emissions at the same time. I've seen some of the tech (some cool-a$$ stuff at a few of the oil and gas research facilities in Houston and Dallas). Plus, there are of course other energy sources we can and should develop as well.

Opinionated

 

[Hamburgerpimp]

All over the price of oil, it is our most precious resource, now isn't it!

 

[BLACKBEARD]

Opiniated, If the oil north of Yemen were not there the Cole would not have been there.

I care not at all about people who would trade the lives of service people for time to develop a policy. Clean Air is not at stake here, what is at risk is the ugly practice of using the navy to secure energy supplies at the best possible price without a care for the price next week, which is about how long it will take the people to gorget the names of the dead.

I repeat, if the oil in the middle east were not necessary to our economy, we would not be involed. I say, turn the drilling companies loose and let
them drive a financial nail in the middle east coffin.

johnk

 

[BLACKBEARD]

Hamburgerpimp,

Get ready in the next year for some "adjustments" because of the increasing price of energy. One of the biggest laughs of the time in the
70's was the notion that an increase in the price of energy would work it's way through the economy in a year. The value of a dollar today is
about a quarter of what it was then, more or less, it looks like stagflation again. And again we will make the same shortsighted decisions
that were made in the 70's. At least this time we won't have to wear those
crummy bellbottoms

johnk

 

[Opinionated]

Red,

I ABSOLUTELY was not trying to "use" the deaths of those sailors. I was only trying to encourage folks to move the Israeli/Palestinian discussion to a dedicated thread.

I would never seek to limit what ANYONE says here or anywhere. I was simply a bit uncomfortable associating the loss of life of those dedicated public servants with the tragedy brewing in the Eastern Med.

I just thought we could have a more focused discussion in a dedicated thread. I apologize if anyone interpreted my intent otherwise.

Opinionated

PS - I started a new thread on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict if anyone cares to join us there. I think it could be a productive venue for discussing that issue and how it relates to the energy question.

 

[Opinionated]

Thanks Red.... No apology necessary. BTW, like the new icon.

Opinionated

 

[convex]

shoddy attempt at carlin humor-

"it's like the united states has a new hobby, bombing countries full of brown people... bomb them! bomb the brown people!"

 

[Zucchini]

ARghh, i hate this mess. There's enough blame for all sides.. both sides did many bad things. Religion/racism does not help matters either. It would be nice if certain groups in the US would look to the middle east and see why it is best to have a separation between church and state.

as for US dependence on foreign oil, i think thats partially a good thing. You must realize that many of these countries are dependent on selling their most precious resource. They do not have the ability to feed their populations without it. What happens when it runs out? Best to bleed their wells dry before ours hehehe evil but kinda makes sense.

Also, most americans dont care about oil it seems, just look at SUV sales.

 

[Dameon]

The death toll now is officially 17. Those missing are now presumed lost.

May god be with them. Let the world know, we will not stand idly by while this occurs.

 

[Ulfwald]

I still say find out who did this, line them up against a wall, and have a sharpshooter give each one responsible a forehead enema.

 

[DABANSHEE]

"DABANSHEE et al. - Please take all the Israeli/Palestinian stuff to the new thread OK?"

Don't you have the ability to understand the concept of 'cause & effect' Opinionated?

Over 2 days ago I said that the main reason the US has become a target of terrorism in the middle east is because of its unconditional & financial support of Israel. Then look what happens right in the middle of a new intifada starting up, a American destroyer gets blown up. Definitly sounds like a case of 'cause & effect' to me.

If you can't see that the 2 issues are related you must be blind. Either that or wearing a pair of mental blinkers.

& yet all this could have been avoided, if Truman had just taken the advice of his Middle East experts who adviced him that the creation of Israel would cause untold bloodshed in the short & long term & would be destructive to American interests. Instead Trumen said "I am sorry gentlemen, but I have to answer to hundreds of thousands who are anxious for the success of Zionism. I do not have hundreds of thousands of Arabs among my constituents"

I doubt very much that the US would ever have become a target of Middle East terrorism if the US had instead back King Faud's plan of parcelling off a bit of Germany & giving it to the Jews as New Israel (what with news of the holocaust coming out I doubt the Germans would have complained, they didn't complain when a bit of Germany was parcelled off & given to Poland to make up for the bit of Poland that Stalin gave to Belorussa, The Germans didn't complain either when 2 million Sudeten Germans where evicted from Czechoslovakia after the war), Afterall it was the Germans who committed the holocaust not the Palestinians.

The simple fact is American made itself a target of Middle East Terrorism by its unconditional financial support of Israel. Of course Arabs are going to take it out on the US, while American tax-payers are paying for the bullets that are killing Palestinian children. Until the US extricates itself from Israel it will always be a target of Middle Eastern terrorism, its that simple.

Also Arabs see Americans as hypocrites because they refuse to support UN embargos on Israel, until Israel complys with the 2 UN resolutions to do with the return of Palestinian refugees & the return of confiscated lands; yet the US goes arround forcing UN embargoes on its enamies like Serbia & Iraq. If its good enough for Serbia & Iraq to have enforced embargoes for not complying with UN resolutiuons, its then good enough for Israel. So while the US behaves with such hypocracy as far as Israel is concerned, Arabs will of course consider the US with contempt & it will always be a target.

Anyway seeing as all the American supporters of the IRA claimed that bombing military targets are not terrorist attacks, then this wasn't a terrorist attack as the targets were military not civilian. Afterall one could say that because the bullets the Israelis are using to kill Palestinian children are being paid for by American taxpayers, then a defacto state of war exists between the US & the Arab world & as such they had every right to attack US military targets in the area.

That's not my point of veiw, but until the US can understand why friction between itself & the Arab world exists, they'l never get beyond it.

 

[Opinionated]

convex - I know it was an attempt at humor, but I certainly find nothing humorous about it. In fact, as a loyal US citizen, I find it a bit insulting and inflamatory.

Opinionated

 

[Opinionated]

Dameon - My sentiments exactly. Thanks Dameon.

 

[FlashG]

Back on track. If your still interested.

CASUALTIES

My prayers and sympathy to their families..

 

[Underclocked]

DABANSHEE, you are so impressive. I'm sure the families of those 17+ dead AMERICAN sailors would surely appreciate your wisdom.

 

[Ulfwald]

Dabanshee,
your stupidity never ceases to amaze me. Until you face one simple fact, you will never know.

Fact: We as Americans may have our differences as many nations do, but if you are an outsider, don't fvck with us because we are loyal to our county, and when you harm or kill an American, you do it to all of us. We don't have to kow them directly, but it still p!sses us off. We want blood, namely of those responsible.


So until you can grasp this one simple fact, STFU!

 

[Opinionated]

DABANSHEE,



<< Don't you have the ability to understand the concept of 'cause &amp; effect' Opinionated? >>



Of course I do, and veiled attacks on my intellect will not provoke me, nor will they make YOU look any more intelligent. I don't see any evidence linking the unprovoked attack by terrorists in Yemen on the USS Cole with the current unrest in Israel. To set up an attack such as the one that was made on the USS Cole requires much advanced planning.... months in this case, I'm sure. It's MUCH more likely that the attack was made to discourage the US from engaging the Yemeni government in an attempt to improve relations.

I DO believe there are a great many terrorist organizations out there who hate the US, but to state that THE reason for doing so is our support of Israel is not accurate.



<< The simple fact is American made itself a target of Middle East Terrorism by its unconditional financial support of Israel. Of course Arabs are going to take it out on the US, while American tax-payers are paying for the bullets that are killing Palestinian children. Until the US extricates itself from Israel it will always be a target of Middle Eastern terrorism, its that simple. >>



Come on DABANSHEE, you are almost giving tacit approval for such conduct. Terrorism is simply an unacceptable form of expression, political or otherwise.

I can assure you, we REGULARLY put conditions on the financial support we give to Israel. We virtually ALWAYS put conditions on the financial aid we give.

As for trying to place the responsibility for this conflict on the American taxpayer for the deaths of Palestinian children, that's simply untrue, insulting, and another attempt at provocation.

Frankly, why does no one put any responsibility on the Palestinians for these admittedly tragic deaths. Who in their right minds would let, or worse send, CHILDREN into the streets to attack armed soldiers. I certainly wouldn't allow MY sons to do anything so foolish.



<< Until the US extricates itself from Israel it will always be a target of Middle Eastern terrorism, its that simple >>



It's NEVER that simple..... ever.

Opinionated

 

[DaBoneHead]

Interestingly enough, with the collapse of the Soviet Union, the need for the United States to stand strong and oppose communism (or anything else) is gone. The United States foreign policies are changing to ones of limited intervention. No more jump in with both feet... if a problem kicks up in Europe, let NATO take the lead. If a problem kicks up in Asia, let the UN take the lead (like the Australians did in East Timor). If a problem kicks up in Africa... ignore it and hope nobody notices. The only place the US will probably take a lead is in the Americas (like panama or grenada). The emphasis is now more to supporting our allies, rather than fighting their wars. Both Bush and Gore have talked about a &quot;humble&quot; US with respect to Foreign Policy. That is a code for &quot;let's not get involved if we don't have too&quot;. The ironic thing about this attack is it really is misplaced. Now is not the time to get the ire of the US... The only person who could have done this is Bin Laden. Yemen was his stomping ground for a looong time, and he still has assets hanging around there. Mark my words, we are going to be gunning for Bin Laden big time. No more missles from a distance, somebody is going to put a gun in his mouth and ventilate his head.

Most of the world knows that the US is trying to back out of crisis areas. A mideast peace deal would have been the jewel in the crown, and been the perfect excuse for distancing ourselves even further, even if the peace deal did fall apart. We could have taken a 'mission-accomplished' attitude and began cutting back our support for Israel on the premise that it was no longer needed in the new 'peaceful' mideast.

The attack had nothing to do with the palestinians. The attackers used very high explosive, possibly even C4. They used it in a shaped charge fashion, it was well planned, and they knew the layout of the ship well enough that they could detonate the bomb and take out the engines. All of this points to months, perhaps years, of planning.

The US started using Yemen in late 1997. It may have pissed Bin Laden off that the US was in his old hang-out and he could have even started planning back then. Trying to tie the Palestinians to this action really is incorrect, as all sides want the US support and brokerage of the peace deal, and an attack by palestine on the US would jeapardize that, plus it could bring the US down on them like the sword of damocles. Believe me, the world is very impressed with the US military... The US military is feared, and only terrorists (being the insignificant gnats that they are) would cross paths it it. We have to make an example of these terrorists, much like we made an example of Iraq when it became a rogue nation.

 

[FlashG]

DABANSHEE,

Do the right thing.


This thread is becoming to anal retentive.

The fact remains that our (US forces) are there and they are dying for their country. I wish some of you detractors would move your negative attitudes to another forum for discussion. Please

 

[FettsBabe]

Regardless of your opinions, the we &quot;the us&quot; are closing our embassies for a few days. You can check it out at

Embassy

 

[AndrewR]

DABANSHEE: Try this quote on for size...


<< Intelligence sources told NBC News that the explosion may have been an inside job, planned for six months or longer with informers from the Yemen government or the port alerting terrorists to the ship?s refueling schedule. >>


And this one...


<< A senior U.S. counter-terrorism official told NBC News that the schedule of the ship?s arrival was continually being changed, even in the ?last couple of days,? and speculated that someone on the inside was feeding information to terrorists. ?This was not your average terrorist attack,? said the official. ?It took months of planning.? >>


Kind of puts that &quot;cause and effect&quot; crap in perspective, now doesn't it?

Hmmm, not only do you want to see Jews dead, you seem to enjoy the idea of Americans dying, too.

 

[FettsBabe]

Good post Andrew

 

[chess9]

I just received an email from my son who is on the Saipan somewhere in the Med. This is the first direct communication from him in 2 weeks. They have been on heightened alert because of a trio of problems: the Balkans; the Palestinian/Israeli fighting; and now the U.S.S. Cole incident. He hasn't been able to comment and all the guys have been sending emails through their commander and all communications were directly MONITORED!

These kids pay a high price for helping other countries. No respect, low pay, separation from family, fear of death, to name a few.