**U.S. Marine kills wounded insurgent** on-line petition

[FinalFantasy]

Signed!

Support our troops, they're in Iraq fighting for our country while we are here enjoying our time at home.

 

[hysperion]

Originally posted by: tnilC
One more dead Terrorist. Good work marine.

I dont give a flying fvck if he was injured and lying on the ground. He and others in that Mosque were shooting at the Marines just moments earlier. News Flash: people get shot and die in war. Kill or be killed.

Every one of you who are acting all up in arms are and liers and hypocrits. You dont care any more than I do that that Iraqi was killed, you only act as if you do because it can be used and twisted as Anti-Bush political fodder.

well said

 

[TheGeek]

Keep up the good work, Marines!!! Shoot as many as you can. Dip the bullet in pig's blood first. Then bury them with the pig, facing away from mecca

 

[Klixxer]

Signing anything like that is against everything that any man who believes in justice and law will do.

He will be tried and judged. as it should be.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: hysperion

Originally posted by: tnilC
One more dead Terrorist. Good work marine.

I dont give a flying fvck if he was injured and lying on the ground. He and others in that Mosque were shooting at the Marines just moments earlier. News Flash: people get shot and die in war. Kill or be killed.

Every one of you who are acting all up in arms are and liers and hypocrits. You dont care any more than I do that that Iraqi was killed, you only act as if you do because it can be used and twisted as Anti-Bush political fodder.

well said

When a soldier decides YOU are a terrorist i hope you will just be a good sport and die without soiling yourself.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: PsychoYoda
Keep up the good work, Marines!!! Shoot as many as you can. Dip the bullet in pig's blood first. Then bury them with the pig facing away from mecca

How about a bit of torture first, i mean, to get you sickos really excited?

 

[g8wayrebel]

Signed...
with comment:
I sign this based on it's validity. We don't know the whole story, but if this is an accurate account, I don't think any action is merited

 

[Regs]

This is what you can expect when you throw a man out in the battlefield. You out there miles away from your family watching your friends get murdered, I doubt you'll be in your right state of mind either.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
If he was unstable and not able to do his job he should not have had a gun in his hands a judgement error of his own and his CO. We all make mistakes but having a gun calls for a cooler head what if a fellow soldier spooked him when he was nervous like that? NOT AN EXCUSE HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE PROFESSIONAL RIGHT?
another failure of the so-called best military in the world, maybe if they have a draft the quality of soldier will improve lol.
Petition? No way! try him and if found guilty take appropriate actions.

Wow... How is this a failure of the "so-called best military in the world"??? Just because you're a professional soldier and train for monthes and years doesn't necessarily prepare you for true combat. Hell, if you've seen your best friend blown to pieces by mortar roundsm, seen dead and dying people all around you, and you always have to be on the lookout for any insurgents while you fear for your life, chances are, no matter what, no matter how cool of a head you have, there is a high probability that you will become VERY, VERY nervous.

BTW, if the US army is the "so-called best army," then which country has the best army?

EDIT: made it more pleasing to the eye.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: gutharius
To all those who signed.

Do you think the Jews deserved what Hitler did to them??? Cause that is what you are saying here. By signing this petition you are saying it is ok for our troops to kill any Iraqi civilian man, woman, or child. Just because they are Iraqi does not make them sub-human. Which is what the Nazi's considered Jews in WWII and as such treated them so. By signing this petition you are signing off on Iraqis being sub-human creatures that deserve nor more respect than a mere roach on the kitchen counter top. You are signing a petition that says Hitler was right to do what he did to the Jews.

Sigh... Time to point out everything wrong with this analogy

First, did the Jews fight Hitler and the German troops, try and fight them?? Play dead and plant booby traps on themselves??? Did they behead innocent civilians working in their respective countries??

Second, is this genocide?? Is the US going out of its way to persecute and kill and burn and strip and starve and gas and dehumanize and let them rot in inhumane conditions?? And if they ever have, was it because they were Iraqi/ Muslim or because they were attacking US troops??

Thirdly, you said we justify killing Iraqi civilians.... yet I'm pretty sure the killed person was a combatant rather than a civilian.

Fourth, are you even sure that the marine actually killed the man, as I've heard some speculation on the validity of some of the conclusions drawn from the video clip. IF you're going to accuse us all of being complicit with the Holocaust, make sure that the clip is 100% true. I could make the same case with any trial ever in the history of the world. Ex: "You say that guy is innocent, but there's a 95% chance that he's guilty. That means that you justify murder." Kind of silly

Fifth, last I heard, this petition was about the soldier and not about the Holocaust. Believe me, I could say that everytime you hit your brother or some kid at school, you justify violence. Violence is what the Nazis used to carry out the Holocaust. Since you used violence, that means you agree with HItler and think that all Jews should die.

DONT ACCUSE ANYONE OF JUSTIFYING THE HOLOCAUST

EDIT: sigh... edited for content.

 

[xyyz]

i'm just reminded by the general rule for P&N:

A forum for more serious discussions of politics and current events. Passions are always high on all sides of these subjects so keep your posts on topic. PERSONAL FLAMES WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

i'm not a mod, so i can't enforce anything, but delivering your point w/o making pejorative remarks, often delivers the point more effectively.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Done... but accusing people of justifying the Holocaust is just asking to be flamed.

 

[abnormalbo]

Originally posted by: phillyTIM
The bastard needs to be tried by the Internations Courts for war crimes.

Him and his bastard President Bush and his regime of goons.

Taking a life is a last resort; when someone has been laying there overnight, injured and unarmed, and surrounded by a contingent of military, there's no reason they are to be shot.

Congress won't save him.

i guess this a-hole didn't actually read the petition. I dare you to live in the real world for a day!

 

[abnormalbo]

I don't care if your waving a white flag in the air. If you've ever shot a single shot at me, i will not hesitate to make sure you are dead.

This guy did the right thing. He protected himself and his unit. What if the guy was reaching for a granade, or a triggering device for some IED? Then we'd be seeing another news report n an ambush and 5 or more dead american soldiers instead. All of you who disagree with what this HERO did, maybe you should join the marines and see what you would do in his place.

 

[drewshin]

it's funny how conservatives always talk about people taking responsibility for their actions, but are quick to try to absolve someone who clearly should be held responsible for his actions, no matter how tough the circumstances.
the crazy thing is that if it was a child laying there and the marine shot the child, the conservatives would still be crying for the soldier to be excused.

 

[drewshin]

Originally posted by: abnormalbo
I don't care if your waving a white flag in the air. If you've ever shot a single shot at me, i will not hesitate to make sure you are dead.

This guy did the right thing. He protected himself and his unit. What if the guy was reaching for a granade, or a triggering device for some IED? Then we'd be seeing another news report n an ambush and 5 or more dead american soldiers instead. All of you who disagree with what this HERO did, maybe you should join the marines and see what you would do in his place.

It seems not many people have read the reporter's eyewitness account of the incident. No one from inside the mosque was firing, it was the Marines that entered before his unit that that were firing on the wounded people inside.

www.kevinsites.net

We hear gunshots from what seems to be coming from inside the mosque. A Marine from my squad yells, "Are there Marines in here?"

When we arrive at the front entrance, we see that another squad has already entered before us.

The lieutenant asks them, "Are there people inside?"

One of the Marines raises his hand signaling five.

"Did you shoot them," the lieutenant asks?

"Roger that, sir, " the same Marine responds.

"Were they armed?" The Marine just shrugs and we all move inside.

Immediately after going in, I see the same black plastic body bags spread around the mosque. The dead from the day before. But more surprising, I see the same five men that were wounded from Friday as well. It appears that one of them is now dead and three are bleeding to death from new gunshot wounds. The fifth is partially covered by a blanket and is in the same place and condition he was in on Friday, near a column. He has not been shot again. I look closely at both the dead and the wounded. There don't appear to be any weapons anywhere.

"These were the same wounded from yesterday," I say to the lieutenant. He takes a look around and goes outside the mosque with his radio operator to call in the situation to Battalion Forward HQ.

I see an old man in a red kaffiyeh lying against the back wall. Another is face down next to him, his hand on the old man's lap -- as if he were trying to take cover. I squat beside them, inches away and begin to videotape them. Then I notice that the blood coming from the old man's nose is bubbling. A sign he is still breathing. So is the man next to him.

While I continue to tape, a Marine walks up to the other two bodies about fifteen feet away, but also lying against the same back wall.

Then I hear him say this about one of the men:

"He's fvcking faking he's dead -- he's faking he's fvcking dead."

Through my viewfinder I can see him raise the muzzle of his rifle in the direction of the wounded Iraqi. There are no sudden movements, no reaching or lunging.

However, the Marine could legitimately believe the man poses some kind of danger. Maybe he's going to cover him while another Marine searches for weapons.

Instead, he pulls the trigger. There is a small splatter against the back wall and the man's leg slumps down.

"Well he's dead now," says another Marine in the background.

I am still rolling. I feel the deep pit of my stomach. The Marine then abruptly turns away and strides away, right past the fifth wounded insurgent lying next to a column. He is very much alive and peering from his blanket. He is moving, even trying to talk. But for some reason, it seems he did not pose the same apparent "danger" as the other man -- though he may have been more capable of hiding a weapon or explosive beneath his blanket.

But then two other marines in the room raise their weapons as the man tries to talk.

For a moment, I'm paralyzed still taping with the old man in the foreground. I get up after a beat and tell the Marines again, what I had told the lieutenant -- that this man -- all of these wounded men -- were the same ones from yesterday. That they had been disarmed treated and left here.

At that point the Marine who fired the shot became aware that I was in the room. He came up to me and said, "I didn't know sir-I didn't know." The anger that seemed present just moments before turned to fear and dread.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: drewshin
However, the Marine could legitimately believe the man poses some kind of danger

Originally posted by: ozoned
Link

NEWS RELEASE
HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES CENTRAL COMMAND
7115 South Boundary Boulevard
MacDill AFB, Fla. 33621-5101
Phone: (813) 827-5894; FAX: (813) 827-2211; DSN 651-5894

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

November 22, 2004
Release Number: 04-11-77


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


INSURGENTS FAKING DEAD FIRES ON MARINES

FALLUJAH, Iraq ? Marines from the 1st Marine Division shot and killed an insurgent, who while faking dead, opened fire on the Marines that were conducting a security and clearing patrol through the streets here at approximately 3:45 p.m. on 21 November.

For more information, please contact Capt Bradley Gordon, public affairs officer, 1st Marine Division, gordonbv@1mardivdm.usmc.mil




If in doubt, take them out.

 

[xyyz]

this "if in doubt, take them out" makes no sense here.

aren't you people READING the account of what happened. the insurgents were wounded and already checked by a previous unit. therefore the argument of "what if they were hiding anything" should die right there. unless the previous unit was seriously incompetent, which is nearly guarnteed not to be the case, these wounded insurgents had no ability to hide anything.

so please, think about what you are saying before you say anything.

the incident with the insurgent who was faking his death, i'm sure that was an entirely different scenario that cannot in any way be compared to this scenario. in that scenario marines were securing and clearing, in this scenario these insurgents were secured and cleared.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: xyyz
this "if in doubt, take them out" makes no sense here.

aren't you people READING the account of what happened. the insurgents were wounded and already checked by a previous unit. therefore the argument of "what if they were hiding anything" should die right there. unless the previous unit was seriously incompetent, which is nearly guarnteed not to be the case, these wounded insurgents had no ability to hide anything.

so please, think about what you are saying before you say anything.

the incident with the insurgent who was faking his death, i'm sure that was an entirely different scenario that cannot in any way be compared to this scenario. in that scenario marines were securing and clearing, in this scenario these insurgents were secured and cleared.

When told by the pool reporter that the men were among those wounded in Friday's firefight, the Marine who fired the shot said, "I didn't know, sir. I didn't know."

If in doubt, take them out.