U.S. is going nuclear!

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: QuantumPion

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The important thing to remember for the technically minded who are profoudnly linear in their thinking and lack the flexibility of the more artistic who employ the right side of their brains to a greater degree is Murphy's Law.

Even the most thick lensed engineer who shares his ass with a slide rule and his head, should be able to understand the logic of that law and radioactive for a million years. The Universe they say was created so that everything that can happen will, and that is why no sane person creates nuclear waste. Only a total asshole, I repeat, would create deadly poisons that last a million years. You can't guarantee you will be alive tomorrow, much less that your carefully laid plans for safe storage in a million years won't be breached. Only an asshole created poisons that could kill that far beyond our capacity to comprehend.

Spent fuel may be radioactive and dangerous for a few hundred or a thousand years, but the chemicals used routinely in the production of consumer goods, e.g. chlorine, plastics, heavy metals, acids, organics, solvents, etc. will remain toxic and deadly FOREVER.

For example, there is enough chlorine gas around, produced for industrial use, to kill the entire world's population 100,000 times over.

It's even worse. They pipe a real killer right into your shower where you can die from hyponatremia.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: BrownTown

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I am always amazed at how ignorant people who think they know something are. The target won't be the nuclear reactors which are shielded, but the waste fuel that is stored out in the open in tanks of water.

its funny because YOU clearly don't know what you are talking about. Spent fuel pools aren't "out in the open", they are inside the auxiliary building at the plant. We are talking about being in a pool of water surrounded by 6-10ft of concrete that's inside another building with 2-4ft concrete walls. Also, people like you tend to overstate the deadliness of spent fuel, 10+ ft of water between you and it is all you need to be safe. As point of fact, I have personally been within 20ft of spent fuel and the dosimeter stayed at 0 mrem/hr.

They aren't under the reactor dome either which was what I was talking about. And you can shove your people like me shit up your ass. Only a total imbecile would create poisons that kill for a hundred thousand years and leave them to their kids. 'People like you' are the fuck heads that endanger the all life on earth. You dumb fuckers are a walking death wish, a bunch of psychopathic hubris monkeys and you're always male, testosterone blind shit heads. Just kidding. But here's a good piece on the issue:

Link

Do you have any idea how much toxic waste will be pumped into the world when you manufacture all those windmills and solar panels to power your make believe world?

LOL, want to come to our company and look at our heavy metal waste tank? LOL @ the amount of cadmium. Oh and selenium isn't exactly stuff you want either. We take blood tests to routinely monitor our Cd and Se levels. Of course the fact that solar cells don't emit poison is the reason why it's the gold standard right. And we all know solar cells are rated for what... 25 years? (oh gosh how come I forgot what UL certification is for exactly?). Either way, you gotta toss these things out. Oh yes. These are certainly not poisonous that you can toss this stuff out and it'll biodegrade..... Laugh.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: BrownTown

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I am always amazed at how ignorant people who think they know something are. The target won't be the nuclear reactors which are shielded, but the waste fuel that is stored out in the open in tanks of water.

its funny because YOU clearly don't know what you are talking about. Spent fuel pools aren't "out in the open", they are inside the auxiliary building at the plant. We are talking about being in a pool of water surrounded by 6-10ft of concrete that's inside another building with 2-4ft concrete walls. Also, people like you tend to overstate the deadliness of spent fuel, 10+ ft of water between you and it is all you need to be safe. As point of fact, I have personally been within 20ft of spent fuel and the dosimeter stayed at 0 mrem/hr.

They aren't under the reactor dome either which was what I was talking about. And you can shove your people like me shit up your ass. Only a total imbecile would create poisons that kill for a hundred thousand years and leave them to their kids. 'People like you' are the fuck heads that endanger the all life on earth. You dumb fuckers are a walking death wish, a bunch of psychopathic hubris monkeys and you're always male, testosterone blind shit heads. Just kidding. But here's a good piece on the issue:

Link

please back that statement up by showing that safe containment of nuclear material is impossible. as far as i know, we've been doing a pretty damn good job of it. the caskets that contain nuclear material during transport can withstand a train impact at 45mph (IIRC from the history channel's "deadly cargo" documentary). please, armchair engineer your way out of that. you're doing nothing but fear mongering.

oh and for what it's worth, i love clean, green energy too. calvert cliffs nuclear power plant is a fantastic place (i live 10 miles away), and i can't wait till constellation builds a 3rd reactor to bring more skilled jobs and clean energy to the area.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: BrownTown

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I am always amazed at how ignorant people who think they know something are. The target won't be the nuclear reactors which are shielded, but the waste fuel that is stored out in the open in tanks of water.

its funny because YOU clearly don't know what you are talking about. Spent fuel pools aren't "out in the open", they are inside the auxiliary building at the plant. We are talking about being in a pool of water surrounded by 6-10ft of concrete that's inside another building with 2-4ft concrete walls. Also, people like you tend to overstate the deadliness of spent fuel, 10+ ft of water between you and it is all you need to be safe. As point of fact, I have personally been within 20ft of spent fuel and the dosimeter stayed at 0 mrem/hr.

They aren't under the reactor dome either which was what I was talking about. And you can shove your people like me shit up your ass. Only a total imbecile would create poisons that kill for a hundred thousand years and leave them to their kids. 'People like you' are the fuck heads that endanger the all life on earth. You dumb fuckers are a walking death wish, a bunch of psychopathic hubris monkeys and you're always male, testosterone blind shit heads. Just kidding. But here's a good piece on the issue:

Link

please back that statement up by showing that safe containment of nuclear material is impossible. as far as i know, we've been doing a pretty damn good job of it. the caskets that contain nuclear material during transport can withstand a train impact at 45mph (IIRC from the history channel's "deadly cargo" documentary). please, armchair engineer your way out of that. you're doing nothing but fear mongering.

oh and for what it's worth, i love clean, green energy too. calvert cliffs nuclear power plant is a fantastic place (i live 10 miles away), and i can't wait till constellation builds a 3rd reactor to bring more skilled jobs and clean energy to the area.

Oh Dear, here you are promoting nuclear energy and you don't know the simplest elements of logical thought. I don't know that nuclear waste can't be stored safely. That is the point. Nobody knows. We are talking about materials that can kill for thousands of years. Nobody can know what disasters might happen to that waste in that time. It is irresponsible to risk something that could become a huge catastrophe even if the risk is small. It's Russian Roulette and just plain stupid. Chernobyl can't be undone. And humanity hates itself so it will find a way to have an accident. There is a real force operating Murphy's Law.

 

[Moonbeam]

Naturally if you make your living in nuclear, it looks much better. That's how bias works.

I am unbiased and even pro nuclear, just as soon as all the waste we've ever made is put somewhere almost certainly safe. But that will never happen because people are pigs and do not want to go back and fix old problems.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Naturally if you make your living in nuclear, it looks much better. That's how bias works.

I am unbiased and even pro nuclear, just as soon as all the waste we've ever made is put somewhere almost certainly safe. But that will never happen because people are pigs and do not want to go back and fix old problems.

I think we can certainly put the waste somewhere safe as I said earlier... The cost of that adventure, however, places nuclear power waste generation removal beyond the beyonds. I guess there are choices that when considered within the framework of totally safe nuclear waste ummmmm 'removal' leave a no brainer situation.

I guess Pickens is right... phase out fossil fuel and phase in Wind, Solar, Wave Technology and what ever other concepts there are.. Maybe Fusion even or just hydrogen powered cars... That may be too expensive but it is an energy carrier...

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Naturally if you make your living in nuclear, it looks much better. That's how bias works.

I am unbiased and even pro nuclear, just as soon as all the waste we've ever made is put somewhere almost certainly safe. But that will never happen because people are pigs and do not want to go back and fix old problems.

Only a very small percentage of people out there are "nuclear engineers" even in the nuclear field. An electrical engineer like myself really doesn't care who wins between nuclear, coal, natural gas, wind, solar etc. You will need electrical engineers to build all of them. The same is true for mechanical and civil engineers. The companies and people who build nuclear reactors and coal plants are in large part the same one who build the clean power equipment.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: BrownTown

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Naturally if you make your living in nuclear, it looks much better. That's how bias works.

I am unbiased and even pro nuclear, just as soon as all the waste we've ever made is put somewhere almost certainly safe. But that will never happen because people are pigs and do not want to go back and fix old problems.

Only a very small percentage of people out there are "nuclear engineers" even in the nuclear field. An electrical engineer like myself really doesn't care who wins between nuclear, coal, natural gas, wind, solar etc. You will need electrical engineers to build all of them. The same is true for mechanical and civil engineers. The companies and people who build nuclear reactors and coal plants are in large part the same one who build the clean power equipment.

Good because I don't want to see a lot of people waste their lives going nowhere. There will always be more hysterical mothers with kids pulling the voting levers then there are engineers wanting to drive nuclear waste through the local park on the way to being turned into big ego hubris ideas.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Oh Dear, here you are promoting nuclear energy and you don't know the simplest elements of logical thought. I don't know that nuclear waste can't be stored safely. That is the point. Nobody knows. We are talking about materials that can kill for thousands of years. Nobody can know what disasters might happen to that waste in that time. It is irresponsible to risk something that could become a huge catastrophe even if the risk is small. It's Russian Roulette and just plain stupid. Chernobyl can't be undone. And humanity hates itself so it will find a way to have an accident. There is a real force operating Murphy's Law.

a lack of knowledge does not constitute proof. as far as the industry and military can tell, clearly we have been able to safely store nuclear material. the amount of radiation exposed to sailors on nuclear craft is less than the amount you'd get by tanning in the sun on a sunny day. we must be doing *something* right if that's the case.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Oh Dear, here you are promoting nuclear energy and you don't know the simplest elements of logical thought. I don't know that nuclear waste can't be stored safely. That is the point. Nobody knows. We are talking about materials that can kill for thousands of years. Nobody can know what disasters might happen to that waste in that time. It is irresponsible to risk something that could become a huge catastrophe even if the risk is small. It's Russian Roulette and just plain stupid. Chernobyl can't be undone. And humanity hates itself so it will find a way to have an accident. There is a real force operating Murphy's Law.

a lack of knowledge does not constitute proof. as far as the industry and military can tell, clearly we have been able to safely store nuclear material. the amount of radiation exposed to sailors on nuclear craft is less than the amount you'd get by tanning in the sun on a sunny day. we must be doing *something* right if that's the case.

It is because a lack of knowledge does not constitute proof that we must never accumulate nuclear wastes. We have a complete lack of knowledge as to what might happen to it. We don't know tomorrow much less 200,000 years of them.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Oh Dear, here you are promoting nuclear energy and you don't know the simplest elements of logical thought. I don't know that nuclear waste can't be stored safely. That is the point. Nobody knows. We are talking about materials that can kill for thousands of years. Nobody can know what disasters might happen to that waste in that time. It is irresponsible to risk something that could become a huge catastrophe even if the risk is small. It's Russian Roulette and just plain stupid. Chernobyl can't be undone. And humanity hates itself so it will find a way to have an accident. There is a real force operating Murphy's Law.

a lack of knowledge does not constitute proof. as far as the industry and military can tell, clearly we have been able to safely store nuclear material. the amount of radiation exposed to sailors on nuclear craft is less than the amount you'd get by tanning in the sun on a sunny day. we must be doing *something* right if that's the case.

It is because a lack of knowledge does not constitute proof that we must never accumulate nuclear wastes. We have a complete lack of knowledge as to what might happen to it. We don't know tomorrow much less 200,000 years of them.

have you heard of science? mechanics of materials? finite element method? these tools are used to experimentally and theoretically evaluate containers.

you realize the DoD has tons of supercomputing power just to evaluate the quality of our nuclear stockpile, right? there are a lot of scientific tools available to allow us to make predictions, to the best of our current abilities, to contain the waste.

it's not like people just ignore the things once they're built.