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U.S. Health Care Crisis: Profits over life

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Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Countdown U.S. Revolution Part II:

I started this thread not because of the ongoing Political battles between left and right, conservative vs Liberal.

Not because of the continuing erosion of civil liberties, not because of the nonstop bleeding of decent jobs to lower and lower scale job (even though there is a bunch of nuts on here that continue to be blind and just keep saying that it is only low paying jobs leaving the Country).

Not because of the re-boot and taking away of the Technology in the Computer and the Internet that is originating from the U.S.

But seeing Senior citizens having to take bus trips to cross the Canadian border to be able to afford to get their medications. These are people that are not likely to be the first ones to shed blood in an all out revolution by virtue of their age and frailty but will enough grandkids and people that will be in their shoes soon realize the gravity of it all and start the revolt is the question?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10-25-2003 "We believe we have not done anything wrong. We are supplying medication to elderly people who cannot otherwise afford it."

A number of cash-strapped states and communities are exploring whether to allow their workers to buy Canadian drugs in an effort to save millions of dollars. Cambridge, Mass., on Monday, became the latest municipality to say it would examine the possibility of pursuing the cheaper Canadian drugs.

Dont worry, the seniors can wave to bus fulls of general canadian citizens coming to states seeking general health care.

Care to back this up? What Canadians have the money to afford Health Care in the U.S. that Americans cannot afford? Are they able to get some sort of Insurance coverage we don't know about or is this another case strictly for the rich?

I worked in Canada for a few months. The cable tv there was full of ads for companys running MRIs on the otherside of the border. I got to hear plenty of storys about having to wait for medical service. Since then I have read many articles about Canadian doctors leaving for the US, under investment in technology(MRIS and other hightech equipment), slow adoption of drugs, general rationing of healthcare and people coming to US for healthcare services(and generally getting better service).

It is not hard to find such articles discussing these topics.
 
Originally posted by: glenn1

First of all, if someone is both so poor and so sickly that they have to choose between food or medicine, how exactly is this my fault, and more specifically, why should i pay for it? Second of all, i recognize the right of the pharmaceutical companies to do business and make a profit. Without them, there wouldn't be all these neat medicines to begin with. I don't think you have a problem with that either. We simply part ways when we discuss the profitability of the pharma companies. You seem to think they are too profitable and this is prima facie evidence of harm being done to the consumer, and i disagree. That's a reasonable difference of opinion to have methinks.

Now if you want to make the assertion that pharma companies shouldn't be allowed to do DTC (Direct To Consumer) advertising, i might be up for that.


Originally posted by: charrison

I worked in Canada for a few months. The cable tv there was full of ads for companys running MRIs on the otherside of the border. I got to hear plenty of storys about having to wait for medical service. Since then I have read many articles about Canadian doctors leaving for the US, under investment in technology(MRIS and other hightech equipment), slow adoption of drugs, general rationing of healthcare and people coming to US for healthcare services(and generally getting better service).

It is not hard to find such articles discussing these topics.

Ignoring for the moment the argument about people who are too poor and sick to pay for their healthcare and why anyone should have to pay for them even though one catastrophic illness can bankrupt event the thriftiest saver in a very short time this boils down to the competing notions of US and Canadian healthcare. Is it better to have free healthcare that is restricted or to have unrestricted healthcare that you can't afford? The results are the same. I offer another option. Healthcare shouldn't be a for profit enterprise. Human life shouldn't be put on an auction block run by pharmaceutical companies, health care providers and health care insurers. Sick people should be treated and their prescriptions filled. I know this will be called socialism but if you consider the medical benefits we give free of charge to the politicians who restrict our benefits you will realize the irony of this situation. Politicians know the value of health care and waste no time or money on getting the very best for themselves while they allow over 43 million Americans to go without health insurance. If we are to fix this there needs to be strict regulation of the pharmaceutical companies, healthcare providers, insurers and hospitals. The millions spent on advertising and contributions alone will go a long way toward paying for benefits and making healthcare available for eveyone. You may be in a position now where your concerns are being met and therefore you don't consider this your problem but let one catastrophic illness or accident occur and you'll change your mind. We are talking about human life here. I find it very odd that people who for instance claim to be pro life on the one hand don't have a problem with limiting health care that leads directly to hundreds of thousands to millions of deaths each year in the USA alone. It's time to take health care out of the realm of corporate boardrooms and stock prices and make it the humanitarian effort it should be. If planned properly a system can be created that will provide the best possible care for everyone. Otherwise we are playing god and choosing between who will live and who will die based on profits and income.
 
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Countdown U.S. Revolution Part II:

I started this thread not because of the ongoing Political battles between left and right, conservative vs Liberal.

Not because of the continuing erosion of civil liberties, not because of the nonstop bleeding of decent jobs to lower and lower scale job (even though there is a bunch of nuts on here that continue to be blind and just keep saying that it is only low paying jobs leaving the Country).

Not because of the re-boot and taking away of the Technology in the Computer and the Internet that is originating from the U.S.

But seeing Senior citizens having to take bus trips to cross the Canadian border to be able to afford to get their medications. These are people that are not likely to be the first ones to shed blood in an all out revolution by virtue of their age and frailty but will enough grandkids and people that will be in their shoes soon realize the gravity of it all and start the revolt is the question?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10-25-2003 "We believe we have not done anything wrong. We are supplying medication to elderly people who cannot otherwise afford it."

A number of cash-strapped states and communities are exploring whether to allow their workers to buy Canadian drugs in an effort to save millions of dollars. Cambridge, Mass., on Monday, became the latest municipality to say it would examine the possibility of pursuing the cheaper Canadian drugs.

Dont worry, the seniors can wave to bus fulls of general canadian citizens coming to states seeking general health care.

Care to back this up? What Canadians have the money to afford Health Care in the U.S. that Americans cannot afford? Are they able to get some sort of Insurance coverage we don't know about or is this another case strictly for the rich?

I worked in Canada for a few months. The cable tv there was full of ads for companys running MRIs on the otherside of the border. I got to hear plenty of storys about having to wait for medical service. Since then I have read many articles about Canadian doctors leaving for the US, under investment in technology(MRIS and other hightech equipment), slow adoption of drugs, general rationing of healthcare and people coming to US for healthcare services(and generally getting better service).

It is not hard to find such articles discussing these topics.

Link it.
 
Ignoring for the moment the argument about people who are too poor and sick to pay for their healthcare and why anyone should have to pay for them even though one catastrophic illness can bankrupt event the thriftiest saver in a very short time this boils down to the competing notions of US and Canadian healthcare. Is it better to have free healthcare that is restricted or to have unrestricted healthcare that you can't afford? The results are the same. I offer another option. Healthcare shouldn't be a for profit enterprise. Human life shouldn't be put on an auction block run by pharmaceutical companies, health care providers and health care insurers. Sick people should be treated and their prescriptions filled. I know this will be called socialism but if you consider the medical benefits we give free of charge to the politicians who restrict our benefits you will realize the irony of this situation. Politicians know the value of health care and waste no time or money on getting the very best for themselves while they allow over 43 million Americans to go without health insurance. If we are to fix this there needs to be strict regulation of the pharmaceutical companies, healthcare providers, insurers and hospitals. The millions spent on advertising and contributions alone will go a long way toward paying for benefits and making healthcare available for eveyone. You may be in a position now where your concerns are being met and therefore you don't consider this your problem but let one catastrophic illness or accident occur and you'll change your mind. We are talking about human life here. I find it very odd that people who for instance claim to be pro life on the one hand don't have a problem with limiting health care that leads directly to hundreds of thousands to millions of deaths each year in the USA alone. It's time to take health care out of the realm of corporate boardrooms and stock prices and make it the humanitarian effort it should be. If planned properly a system can be created that will provide the best possible care for everyone. Otherwise we are playing god and choosing between who will live and who will die based on profits and income.

I understand your concerns and know that your heart is in the right place. There's a few problems with your plan though. First of all, I think that giving the government the responsibility for the healthcare of 280 million people is a bit too much to ask in terms of complexity.

Secondly, I can definitely empathize with the person that has a catrastrophic injury/illness that wipes them out. I daresay the better solution to this would be to use taxpayer funds to give grants to citizens to purchase their own personal catastrophic healthcare insurance. That does the most amount of good for the least amount of expense and government interference in the provider side of the healtcare market.

Also, keep in mind that this type of situation isn't what's driving up health care costs, however. Rather it's those with termincal conditions in the last waning moments of life where heroic efforts are being made to prolong their life by another couple of hours or days. Since reality dictates that there is a limited amount of resources available to pay for healthcare, do we spend any given $1 million on primary care for 10,000 people, or multiple organ transplants for a single person? Both have needs, and choices will have to be made. Do you want a Washington bureaucrat making the decision if you're one of the people involved in the above scenario needing healthcare?

You need to keep in mind also that socialized medicine won't work because of the simple economic principle that people don't value what is given to them for free. Do you really want your tax dollars paying for the chronic malingerer who goes to the emergency room for every ingrown hair? Socializing healthcare won't do anything to control costs, which is kinda the whole point of this exercise.


 
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Countdown U.S. Revolution Part II:

I started this thread not because of the ongoing Political battles between left and right, conservative vs Liberal.

Not because of the continuing erosion of civil liberties, not because of the nonstop bleeding of decent jobs to lower and lower scale job (even though there is a bunch of nuts on here that continue to be blind and just keep saying that it is only low paying jobs leaving the Country).

Not because of the re-boot and taking away of the Technology in the Computer and the Internet that is originating from the U.S.

But seeing Senior citizens having to take bus trips to cross the Canadian border to be able to afford to get their medications. These are people that are not likely to be the first ones to shed blood in an all out revolution by virtue of their age and frailty but will enough grandkids and people that will be in their shoes soon realize the gravity of it all and start the revolt is the question?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10-25-2003 "We believe we have not done anything wrong. We are supplying medication to elderly people who cannot otherwise afford it."

A number of cash-strapped states and communities are exploring whether to allow their workers to buy Canadian drugs in an effort to save millions of dollars. Cambridge, Mass., on Monday, became the latest municipality to say it would examine the possibility of pursuing the cheaper Canadian drugs.

Dont worry, the seniors can wave to bus fulls of general canadian citizens coming to states seeking general health care.

Care to back this up? What Canadians have the money to afford Health Care in the U.S. that Americans cannot afford? Are they able to get some sort of Insurance coverage we don't know about or is this another case strictly for the rich?

I worked in Canada for a few months. The cable tv there was full of ads for companys running MRIs on the otherside of the border. I got to hear plenty of storys about having to wait for medical service. Since then I have read many articles about Canadian doctors leaving for the US, under investment in technology(MRIS and other hightech equipment), slow adoption of drugs, general rationing of healthcare and people coming to US for healthcare services(and generally getting better service).

It is not hard to find such articles discussing these topics.

Link it.

Various articles on mri shortages

various articles about doctor shortages

Various articles about healthcare waits in canada

These articles seems to back up the anecdotal storys i head while i was working in Canada.
 
Originally posted by: glenn1
Ignoring for the moment the argument about people who are too poor and sick to pay for their healthcare and why anyone should have to pay for them even though one catastrophic illness can bankrupt event the thriftiest saver in a very short time this boils down to the competing notions of US and Canadian healthcare. Is it better to have free healthcare that is restricted or to have unrestricted healthcare that you can't afford? The results are the same. I offer another option. Healthcare shouldn't be a for profit enterprise. Human life shouldn't be put on an auction block run by pharmaceutical companies, health care providers and health care insurers. Sick people should be treated and their prescriptions filled. I know this will be called socialism but if you consider the medical benefits we give free of charge to the politicians who restrict our benefits you will realize the irony of this situation. Politicians know the value of health care and waste no time or money on getting the very best for themselves while they allow over 43 million Americans to go without health insurance. If we are to fix this there needs to be strict regulation of the pharmaceutical companies, healthcare providers, insurers and hospitals. The millions spent on advertising and contributions alone will go a long way toward paying for benefits and making healthcare available for eveyone. You may be in a position now where your concerns are being met and therefore you don't consider this your problem but let one catastrophic illness or accident occur and you'll change your mind. We are talking about human life here. I find it very odd that people who for instance claim to be pro life on the one hand don't have a problem with limiting health care that leads directly to hundreds of thousands to millions of deaths each year in the USA alone. It's time to take health care out of the realm of corporate boardrooms and stock prices and make it the humanitarian effort it should be. If planned properly a system can be created that will provide the best possible care for everyone. Otherwise we are playing god and choosing between who will live and who will die based on profits and income.

I understand your concerns and know that your heart is in the right place. There's a few problems with your plan though. First of all, I think that giving the government the responsibility for the healthcare of 280 million people is a bit too much to ask in terms of complexity.

Secondly, I can definitely empathize with the person that has a catrastrophic injury/illness that wipes them out. I daresay the better solution to this would be to use taxpayer funds to give grants to citizens to purchase their own personal catastrophic healthcare insurance. That does the most amount of good for the least amount of expense and government interference in the provider side of the healtcare market.

Also, keep in mind that this type of situation isn't what's driving up health care costs, however. Rather it's those with termincal conditions in the last waning moments of life where heroic efforts are being made to prolong their life by another couple of hours or days. Since reality dictates that there is a limited amount of resources available to pay for healthcare, do we spend any given $1 million on primary care for 10,000 people, or multiple organ transplants for a single person? Both have needs, and choices will have to be made. Do you want a Washington bureaucrat making the decision if you're one of the people involved in the above scenario needing healthcare?

You need to keep in mind also that socialized medicine won't work because of the simple economic principle that people don't value what is given to them for free. Do you really want your tax dollars paying for the chronic malingerer who goes to the emergency room for every ingrown hair? Socializing healthcare won't do anything to control costs, which is kinda the whole point of this exercise.

There is no simple solution and any solution will require honesty on all sides. In cases of terminal illness tough decisions have to be made and I would want families to make them together definitely not beaurocrats. If people are honest and providers are honest I think the costs of health care can be greatly reduced. I had a very good friend years ago who worked for a health care company that provided supplies to providers and the prices they charged were nothing short of criminal and this was before health care reached crisis proportions. Something needs to be done about runaway costs and runaway services but in the final analysis people who need care or prescriptions can't be denied them. We are a better nation than that.
 
Originally posted by: glenn1

You need to keep in mind also that socialized medicine won't work because of the simple economic principle that people don't value what is given to them for free.

unfortunately i think that since, for most people, healthcare costs are hidden by being paid as a "benefit," that mentality has set in.
 
Originally posted by: nowareman
Originally posted by: glenn1

First of all, if someone is both so poor and so sickly that they have to choose between food or medicine, how exactly is this my fault, and more specifically, why should i pay for it? Second of all, i recognize the right of the pharmaceutical companies to do business and make a profit. Without them, there wouldn't be all these neat medicines to begin with. I don't think you have a problem with that either. We simply part ways when we discuss the profitability of the pharma companies. You seem to think they are too profitable and this is prima facie evidence of harm being done to the consumer, and i disagree. That's a reasonable difference of opinion to have methinks.

Now if you want to make the assertion that pharma companies shouldn't be allowed to do DTC (Direct To Consumer) advertising, i might be up for that.


Originally posted by: charrison

I worked in Canada for a few months. The cable tv there was full of ads for companys running MRIs on the otherside of the border. I got to hear plenty of storys about having to wait for medical service. Since then I have read many articles about Canadian doctors leaving for the US, under investment in technology(MRIS and other hightech equipment), slow adoption of drugs, general rationing of healthcare and people coming to US for healthcare services(and generally getting better service).

It is not hard to find such articles discussing these topics.

Ignoring for the moment the argument about people who are too poor and sick to pay for their healthcare and why anyone should have to pay for them even though one catastrophic illness can bankrupt event the thriftiest saver in a very short time this boils down to the competing notions of US and Canadian healthcare. Is it better to have free healthcare that is restricted or to have unrestricted healthcare that you can't afford? The results are the same. I offer another option. Healthcare shouldn't be a for profit enterprise. Human life shouldn't be put on an auction block run by pharmaceutical companies, health care providers and health care insurers. Sick people should be treated and their prescriptions filled. I know this will be called socialism but if you consider the medical benefits we give free of charge to the politicians who restrict our benefits you will realize the irony of this situation. Politicians know the value of health care and waste no time or money on getting the very best for themselves while they allow over 43 million Americans to go without health insurance. If we are to fix this there needs to be strict regulation of the pharmaceutical companies, healthcare providers, insurers and hospitals. The millions spent on advertising and contributions alone will go a long way toward paying for benefits and making healthcare available for eveyone. You may be in a position now where your concerns are being met and therefore you don't consider this your problem but let one catastrophic illness or accident occur and you'll change your mind. We are talking about human life here. I find it very odd that people who for instance claim to be pro life on the one hand don't have a problem with limiting health care that leads directly to hundreds of thousands to millions of deaths each year in the USA alone. It's time to take health care out of the realm of corporate boardrooms and stock prices and make it the humanitarian effort it should be. If planned properly a system can be created that will provide the best possible care for everyone. Otherwise we are playing god and choosing between who will live and who will die based on profits and income.

Excellent post Nowareman. I may change the Title of this thread to U.S. Healthcare crisis which has clearly been the focus here.

 
Originally posted by: glenn1
Ignoring for the moment the argument about people who are too poor and sick to pay for their healthcare and why anyone should have to pay for them even though one catastrophic illness can bankrupt event the thriftiest saver in a very short time this boils down to the competing notions of US and Canadian healthcare. Is it better to have free healthcare that is restricted or to have unrestricted healthcare that you can't afford? The results are the same. I offer another option. Healthcare shouldn't be a for profit enterprise. Human life shouldn't be put on an auction block run by pharmaceutical companies, health care providers and health care insurers. Sick people should be treated and their prescriptions filled. I know this will be called socialism but if you consider the medical benefits we give free of charge to the politicians who restrict our benefits you will realize the irony of this situation. Politicians know the value of health care and waste no time or money on getting the very best for themselves while they allow over 43 million Americans to go without health insurance. If we are to fix this there needs to be strict regulation of the pharmaceutical companies, healthcare providers, insurers and hospitals. The millions spent on advertising and contributions alone will go a long way toward paying for benefits and making healthcare available for eveyone. You may be in a position now where your concerns are being met and therefore you don't consider this your problem but let one catastrophic illness or accident occur and you'll change your mind. We are talking about human life here. I find it very odd that people who for instance claim to be pro life on the one hand don't have a problem with limiting health care that leads directly to hundreds of thousands to millions of deaths each year in the USA alone. It's time to take health care out of the realm of corporate boardrooms and stock prices and make it the humanitarian effort it should be. If planned properly a system can be created that will provide the best possible care for everyone. Otherwise we are playing god and choosing between who will live and who will die based on profits and income.

I understand your concerns and know that your heart is in the right place. There's a few problems with your plan though. First of all, I think that giving the government the responsibility for the healthcare of 280 million people is a bit too much to ask in terms of complexity.

Secondly, I can definitely empathize with the person that has a catrastrophic injury/illness that wipes them out. I daresay the better solution to this would be to use taxpayer funds to give grants to citizens to purchase their own personal catastrophic healthcare insurance. That does the most amount of good for the least amount of expense and government interference in the provider side of the healtcare market.

Also, keep in mind that this type of situation isn't what's driving up health care costs, however. Rather it's those with termincal conditions in the last waning moments of life where heroic efforts are being made to prolong their life by another couple of hours or days. Since reality dictates that there is a limited amount of resources available to pay for healthcare, do we spend any given $1 million on primary care for 10,000 people, or multiple organ transplants for a single person? Both have needs, and choices will have to be made. Do you want a Washington bureaucrat making the decision if you're one of the people involved in the above scenario needing healthcare?

You need to keep in mind also that socialized medicine won't work because of the simple economic principle that people don't value what is given to them for free. Do you really want your tax dollars paying for the chronic malingerer who goes to the emergency room for every ingrown hair? Socializing healthcare won't do anything to control costs, which is kinda the whole point of this exercise.

how can you explain the fact that the US spend the highest % of its GDP on healthcare.
compare it with some European countries with socialized medecine and you are going to be amazed.

costs in these countries are far lower then in the US
 
Did anyone catch the story on (i think it was ABC news) on friday talking about the costs of health care and about the success of Taiwan's new health care system. The story, at least the way it was told on TV, is that their health care system was in a very similar state to ours regarding costs and coverages before its collapse too. Thought it was an interesting piece.
 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: charrison

Dont worry, the seniors can wave to bus fulls of general canadian citizens coming to states seeking general health care.

Care to back this up? What Canadians have the money to afford Health Care in the U.S. that Americans cannot afford? Are they able to get some sort of Insurance coverage we don't know about or is this another case strictly for the rich?

It is true, it does happen sometimes. It made a scandal about 2 or 3 years ago. Some hospitals in Montreal were so overcrowded and waiting lists so long that the government paid to have some people trated in Plattsburg (for serious, urgent radiotherapy). It was a scandal because most of those patients got treated in Plattsburg by doctors and nurses that had left Montreal in the previous health care reform to get a higher pay in the US...
 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: charrison

Dont worry, the seniors can wave to bus fulls of general canadian citizens coming to states seeking general health care.

Care to back this up? What Canadians have the money to afford Health Care in the U.S. that Americans cannot afford? Are they able to get some sort of Insurance coverage we don't know about or is this another case strictly for the rich?

It is true, it does happen sometimes. It made a scandal about 2 or 3 years ago. Some hospitals in Montreal were so overcrowded and waiting lists so long that the government paid to have some people trated in Plattsburg (for serious, urgent radiotherapy). It was a scandal because most of those patients got treated in Plattsburg by doctors and nurses that had left Montreal in the previous health care reform to get a higher pay in the US...
 
Originally posted by: Mavrick
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: charrison

Dont worry, the seniors can wave to bus fulls of general canadian citizens coming to states seeking general health care.

Care to back this up? What Canadians have the money to afford Health Care in the U.S. that Americans cannot afford? Are they able to get some sort of Insurance coverage we don't know about or is this another case strictly for the rich?

It is true, it does happen sometimes. It made a scandal about 2 or 3 years ago. Some hospitals in Montreal were so overcrowded and waiting lists so long that the government paid to have some people trated in Plattsburg (for serious, urgent radiotherapy). It was a scandal because most of those patients got treated in Plattsburg by doctors and nurses that had left Montreal in the previous health care reform to get a higher pay in the US...

Keyword: Sometimes. They aren't driving over in bus loads.

 
Here's a story about Illinoise wanting Fed to waive import ban on drugs from Canada, because it would save them an estimated 17% on their annua Rx drugs expense
 
The government schools in the country get continually worse. Every year we fall further and further behind the rest of the world as far as quality of education. Do you really want the government to run our health care?
 
Originally posted by: BoberFett
The government schools in the country get continually worse. Every year we fall further and further behind the rest of the world as far as quality of education. Do you really want the government to run our health care?

I just want them to put some reigns on the thieving pharmeceutical co.s
 
Also, much of the R&D is done by small biotech startups who are then acquired by big pharma or big pharma licences the tech. Much of the direct R&D expenses for big pharma are usually joint ventures with those startups.

The costs in the European countries for healthcare are low because we pay for it. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: rjain
Also, much of the R&D is done by small biotech startups who are then acquired by big pharma or big pharma licences the tech. Much of the direct R&D expenses for big pharma are usually joint ventures with those startups.

The costs in the European countries for healthcare are low because we pay for it. 🙂


yeah right
rolleye.gif
 
The costs in the European countries for healthcare are low because we pay for it.

exactly. that's why America is now the leader in creating blockbuster drugs, while europe now creates no new drugs at all, no incentive for innovation means no innovation.

why not just make drug companies give away drugs for free. then everybody would have free drugs and everything would be happy. who needs to fund new drug research when we probably have all the drugs we already need. yay! problem solved.

the solution is to legislate drug companies out of existence, no evil drug companies means no drugs. no drugs, no problem, problem solved.

alternatively we could slimline the drug testing procedure to reduce heavy R&D expenses but then we'd end up with another fen/phen and then ppl would be pis sed at the FDA. hence drug testing and research is way expensive, and they pass the savings onto us...
 
Actually, Europe does create a good number of drugs (and many are created with both American and European research facilities collaborating), but the initial launches are most often in the more lucrative US market, where people are willing to bear the brunt of the costs. Of course, justifying selling the same drug at different prices at different times is a bit hard to do, but I'm sure the MPAA can jump in and offer their rationale for doing the same thing with their products. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
The costs in the European countries for healthcare are low because we pay for it.

exactly. that's why America is now the leader in creating blockbuster drugs, while europe now creates no new drugs at all, no incentive for innovation means no innovation.

why not just make drug companies give away drugs for free. then everybody would have free drugs and everything would be happy. who needs to fund new drug research when we probably have all the drugs we already need. yay! problem solved.

the solution is to legislate drug companies out of existence, no evil drug companies means no drugs. no drugs, no problem, problem solved.

alternatively we could slimline the drug testing procedure to reduce heavy R&D expenses but then we'd end up with another fen/phen and then ppl would be pis sed at the FDA. hence drug testing and research is way expensive, and they pass the savings onto us...

Never heard of Elan Pharmacuticals huh?

 
Dont worry, the seniors can wave to bus fulls of general canadian citizens coming to states seeking general health care.
Actually, most of the Canadians that can afford to get any healthcare in the US are coming by plane. General healthcare, which would typically be characterized as health maintenance and preventative care, is far superior (on average) in Canada than the USA. There is a significant queue for procedures in Canada but the same issue exists in the US . . . unless of course you can pay to move to the front of the queue.

My research specialty is childhood autism and schizophrenia. Our state has one of the best (if not the top) program in childhood diagnosis and intervention (TEACCH). We have 9 regional centers providing these services. The waiting list for evaluation typically ranges from 12-18 months.

For all child psychiatric conditions the waiting time for an evaluation in our developmental neuropsychopharmacology clinic is 6 weeks. After which we essentially guarantee that no physician at our hospital will continue to follow your child b/c none of the physicians associated with the university are taking new patients.

Charlotte is the largest city in North Carolina but has only two private practice pediatric endocrinologists.

You can complain about Canadian healthcare all you want but only the wealthy and those living in select geographical areas consider the American system a gem. The rest either don't know or rarely need to access the system.
 
Perhaps part of the problem is that Americans expect drug companies to subsidize their extravagant, unhealthy lifestyles. There was an article in the Mpls Star Tribune about yesterday, and while I haven't read the whole thing I read the first page and in my opinion neither side is innocent.

Americans may spend a fortune on drugs, but some of the areas that it's spent on sicken me.
- Anti-depressants: Get a clue arsehole, your life is a cakewalk compared to much of the world. There are far better ways to deal with depression than drugs.
- An ulcer drug: Slow down, life isn't a f@cking race. If you want to drive your body into the ground, be prepared to pay the piper.
- Cholestorol reducing drugs: Eat healthier you fat bastards.

Much of America's rising drug costs are self inflicted, and I hardly blame the drug companies for trying to get as much money as they can out of us. While there are certainly a lot of legitimate uses for drugs, perhaps we wouldn't have the problems we do with drug prices if doctors didn't hand them out like (very expensive) candy.
 
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Perhaps part of the problem is that Americans expect drug companies to subsidize their extravagant, unhealthy lifestyles. There was an article in the Mpls Star Tribune about yesterday, and while I haven't read the whole thing I read the first page and in my opinion neither side is innocent.

Americans may spend a fortune on drugs, but some of the areas that it's spent on sicken me.
- Anti-depressants: Get a clue arsehole, your life is a cakewalk compared to much of the world. There are far better ways to deal with depression than drugs.
- An ulcer drug: Slow down, life isn't a f@cking race. If you want to drive your body into the ground, be prepared to pay the piper.
- Cholestorol reducing drugs: Eat healthier you fat bastards.

Much of America's rising drug costs are self inflicted, and I hardly blame the drug companies for trying to get as much money as they can out of us. While there are certainly a lot of legitimate uses for drugs, perhaps we wouldn't have the problems we do with drug prices if doctors didn't hand them out like (very expensive) candy.

I'd agree with that for the most part.🙂 Nobody wants to have to take personal responsibility for their health - they just want a drug that'll fix em up quick when they break themselves.

CkG
 
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