U.S. Debt (Let's get real and be civilized) Opinion Thread

[sandorski]

B E C A U S E N O B U S I N E S S C A N S U R V I V E W I T H O U T W O R K I N G F O R A F A I R P R O F I T.

If you don't one bad year kills you.

The government just has been printing money to cover it or taking from those that made money to throw at losing ones.

Oh, is English your second language?

 

[alkemyst]

Oh, is English your second language?

are you trolling?

 

[Zebo]

They won't address it. Even if bond holders cut them off as long as they have ink, paper and electricity they will print.

We don't want our taxes raised and want govt to do everything and any politician who upsets that unbalance will be history.

My guess is within 2 years SHTF either with interest rates or hyperinflation. 10 years and 27 trillion debt projections we will never see.

 

[sandorski]

are you trolling?

srsly, is it? I'm having a difficult time trying to figure out what you're trying to say.

 

[LegendKiller]

They won't address it. Even if bond holders cut them off as long as they have ink, paper and electricity they will print.

We don't want our taxes raised and want govt to do everything and any politician who upsets that unbalance will be history.

My guess is within 2 years SHTF either with interest rates or hyperinflation. 10 years and 27 trillion debt projections we will never see.

Rates will only go up if inflation does. Inflation goes up only with economic slack being taken up, commodities raising is actually deflationary to almost all other inputs into inflation. Considering the US pays far less for its food than most other world countries, it affects us far less.

As rates go up then investments into other areas increasing, especially as real rates in treasuries increase. This will be deflationary to goods but will ramp up growth while decreasing the amount of money in the economy, draining liquidity. The Fed will sell the USTs it holds for a "loss" to principal but that "loss" will be sopping up liquidity, offsetting any "loss" due to M2M on rates (which is theoretically inflationary).

The interesting part comes as the USD weakens due to the initial spike in inflation while rates stay low. This will force China to either re-value or import massive inflation from the US and the world, effectively shredding their economy to pieces and causing huge civil unrest.

What you guys don't quite get yet is that this isn't the first time the US has played an economic war. We've done it several time in the last 100 years and nobody has beaten us yet. The Euros lost twice, along with Japan once. The Sovs lost, horribly. The Japanese blew themselves to hell and back and haven't recovered for 20 years.

Will China win this time? I don't think so.

Even before the 19-teens, we won a couple economic wars, including the foolish investors who decided to plow into the states (who then shafted them, several times) and the railroads.

 

[xaeniac]

Rates will only go up if inflation does. Inflation goes up only with economic slack being taken up, commodities raising is actually deflationary to almost all other inputs into inflation. Considering the US pays far less for its food than most other world countries, it affects us far less.

As rates go up then investments into other areas increasing, especially as real rates in treasuries increase. This will be deflationary to goods but will ramp up growth while decreasing the amount of money in the economy, draining liquidity. The Fed will sell the USTs it holds for a "loss" to principal but that "loss" will be sopping up liquidity, offsetting any "loss" due to M2M on rates (which is theoretically inflationary).

The interesting part comes as the USD weakens due to the initial spike in inflation while rates stay low. This will force China to either re-value or import massive inflation from the US and the world, effectively shredding their economy to pieces and causing huge civil unrest.

What you guys don't quite get yet is that this isn't the first time the US has played an economic war. We've done it several time in the last 100 years and nobody has beaten us yet. The Euros lost twice, along with Japan once. The Sovs lost, horribly. The Japanese blew themselves to hell and back and haven't recovered for 20 years.

Will China win this time? I don't think so.

Even before the 19-teens, we won a couple economic wars, including the foolish investors who decided to plow into the states (who then shafted them, several times) and the railroads.

Nice and interesting post.

 

[ProfJohn]

I hate to break it to you but the Tea Party was a direct result of TARP. It has since been corrupted into a more conventional type of political party.

It goes far beyond TARP and has a lot more to it than that program.

As the pollster Rasmussen says "They think federal spending, deficits and taxes are too high, and they think no one in Washington is listening to them, and that latter point is really, really important."

That is pretty much the mood of much of the country.

 

[Zebo]

commodities raising is actually deflationary to almost all other inputs into inflation

What do you mean by this? Doesn't UPS have to charge more with $3 a gallon gasoline? Doesn't labor have to charge more to get to work and eat with higher commodities? Only thing I see deflationary are houses and capital equipment left over and still inventory everything else is up.

 

[manimal]

That is pretty much the mood of much of the country.

So you know the entire country pretty well then? Your facebooks must be exploding with those millions of people flooding you with updates....



The recent elections like most during recessions are as a direct result of the faltering economy...

Funny how the tea partiers didnt complain much when all the rich people got their deficit inducing tax cut...

 

[ProfJohn]

Did I say 'entire' country??

Learn to read.

And I must have missed the recent tax cut for the rich, bummer.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

very informative talk by Niall Ferguson, with better conclusions that I can master:
http://www.iie.com/events/event_detail.cfm?EventID=152&Media

Thanks for the link. I just watched this talk, and it's very interesting. One of the more sobering points he made is that one of the tipping points from imperial dominance to decline is when an empire spends more on the interest on its debts than its military. He said this tipping point will happen to the US by the end of this decade. I'm immediately skeptical of a military's relevance in a global economy, but this is an interesting issue.

The Q&A session was also very interesting. He discussed the sociocultural (not economic) factors contributing to America's current morass, as well as how information dissemination can radically alter the course of an entire nation's economy.

 

[Steeplerot]

First thing to even think about getting serious is to go back and look at the big picture. Deregulation and the corruption created has been letting corps loot the treasury/ create and profit off of foreign policy and wars have sent us into this spiral. Until we break the corporate propaganda mindset that has taken over since the 80s media deregulations we are screwed. Remember, some are not old enough to remember how 50 independent news agencies with their own investigative reporters ran the news in 1980s and about 3 do now! All of these are in bed with the military/wall street/big energy interests. If you cannot see the obvious glaring conflict of interest here you are delusional.

We are at the point now where the corps are going after the leftover scraps of a once fine country and strong middle class, now the corporate propaganda is going for retirements, unions, teachers, and whatever else the bloodsuckers can suck the last drop of.

Next step is to finish creating a air of complete disillusionment with the government and its ability to get anything done. Then the corps move in for the kill and the country is officially a banana republic owned by a few elite capitalists for the benefit of the profits of a few multinationals instead of people.


This happens all the time, problem is its usually OUR corps doing it to other countries. Thanks Reagan and friends, and the hordes of corporate stooges like in here pimping their line from foxnews/talk radio.

 

[Svnla]

I said this in another thread and I will say it again. Look at the latest US federal budget. The big fat 4 are = SS, Medicare/Medicaid, Defense, and Other Mandatory Programs.

Unless we do something about those 4, cut 100% of everything else and raise taxes won't do much.

The US is just like a big fat obese person yet still refuse to do hard stuffs such as healthy diet, cut back calories, exercises, stop smoking/drinking. So sad. Hopefully, it will not be too late or we could become another "former" great power such as Rome, England, etc.

 

[gingermeggs]

If we're lucky, we'll answer to the Chinese. If we're not, we'll be under Islamic rule.

I said this several years back.

The original Glass-Steagall being re-enacted is the only thing that will make A REAL difference to the present course of the USA, you need to kick the corrupt English bankers out from your financial system........... VERY Quickly!

 

[gingermeggs]

First thing to even think about getting serious is to go back and look at the big picture. Deregulation and the corruption created has been letting corps loot the treasury/ create and profit off of foreign policy and wars have sent us into this spiral. Until we break the corporate propaganda mindset that has taken over since the 80s media deregulations we are screwed. Remember, some are not old enough to remember how 50 independent news agencies with their own investigative reporters ran the news in 1980s and about 3 do now! All of these are in bed with the military/wall street/big energy interests. If you cannot see the obvious glaring conflict of interest here you are delusional.

We are at the point now where the corps are going after the leftover scraps of a once fine country and strong middle class, now the corporate propaganda is going for retirements, unions, teachers, and whatever else the bloodsuckers can suck the last drop of.

Next step is to finish creating a air of complete disillusionment with the government and its ability to get anything done. Then the corps move in for the kill and the country is officially a banana republic owned by a few elite capitalists for the benefit of the profits of a few multinationals instead of people.


This happens all the time, problem is its usually OUR corps doing it to other countries. Thanks Reagan and friends, and the hordes of corporate stooges like in here pimping their line from foxnews/talk radio.

Read-
If that "bail-out" policy is permitted to continue, it will blow out the nations of the world, probably the trans-Atlantic region first, and, barring exceptional new developments, Asia second, with the imminent disintegration of that hopelessly bankrupt British monetarist system, which is known variously, either as the "Inter-Alpha Group" or its doomed subsidiary, the "BRIC." That British Inter-Alpha Group has been the chief causal factor, since 1971, in the presently onrushing hyper-inflationary disintegration of the trans-Atlantic region, and, therefore, the principal source of the current threat to global civilization generally.

http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2011/webcasts/3804jan22_opener.html

Or it's the jump into the 5th dimension! lol

 

[gingermeggs]

Thanks for the link. I just watched this talk, and it's very interesting. One of the more sobering points he made is that one of the tipping points from imperial dominance to decline is when an empire spends more on the interest on its debts than its military. He said this tipping point will happen to the US by the end of this decade. I'm immediately skeptical of a military's relevance in a global economy, but this is an interesting issue.

The Q&A session was also very interesting. He discussed the sociocultural (not economic) factors contributing to America's current morass, as well as how information dissemination can radically alter the course of an entire nation's economy.

He's dancing around having to point the finger at Rupert Murdoch! he's a coward.

 

[gingermeggs]

Rates will only go up if inflation does. Inflation goes up only with economic slack being taken up, commodities raising is actually deflationary to almost all other inputs into inflation. Considering the US pays far less for its food than most other world countries, it affects us far less.

As rates go up then investments into other areas increasing, especially as real rates in treasuries increase. This will be deflationary to goods but will ramp up growth while decreasing the amount of money in the economy, draining liquidity. The Fed will sell the USTs it holds for a "loss" to principal but that "loss" will be sopping up liquidity, offsetting any "loss" due to M2M on rates (which is theoretically inflationary).

The interesting part comes as the USD weakens due to the initial spike in inflation while rates stay low. This will force China to either re-value or import massive inflation from the US and the world, effectively shredding their economy to pieces and causing huge civil unrest.

What you guys don't quite get yet is that this isn't the first time the US has played an economic war. We've done it several time in the last 100 years and nobody has beaten us yet. The Euros lost twice, along with Japan once. The Sovs lost, horribly. The Japanese blew themselves to hell and back and haven't recovered for 20 years.

Will China win this time? I don't think so.

Even before the 19-teens, we won a couple economic wars, including the foolish investors who decided to plow into the states (who then shafted them, several times) and the railroads.

So if china goes down as you say?
Where will the usa buy goods from?
How will it fund its subsidies in it's internal food supply?
how will it fuel, pay the wages and arm it's vast military?
Your high on the imperial dream!
When all other countries are ruined as well, your fucked just the same!
You need to restore morality and have people being paid on the basis of tangible production, not the fictitious wealth of wall street, which your economy is now paying for....thru the nose.
say Hello to hyper-inflation....civil unrest in what country?
EVERY FUCKEN WHERE!

 

[zhangjohn]

Don't worry about the U.S. debt. The U.S. government has a great resource that can be sold. Not high technology, not a stealth aircraft, not coal. What's that? It's the green card. :biggrin:


If you sell 10 million green card one year, you can earn 1 trillion dollar per year. So, don't worry about your debt. Chinese people are willing to go to America if you have a more open mind.

They will buy new house, new car. They need doctors, lawers and many many thing. Is that a good way to solve your problem? :biggrin:

 

[GTaudiophile]

Shouldn't corporate taxes be lower in the US?

Heard an interview recently of a SIEMENS executive who said that they are delaying certain expansions here because of high corporate taxes and they will most likely expand elsewhere.

 

[Steeplerot]

Shouldn't corporate taxes be lower in the US?

We have some of the lowest taxed upper classes and corporations in the first world.The problem is why are those who are profiting most are not paying any taxes (or almost none through loopholes) when the rest of us struggle.

 

[zhangjohn]

China defined itself as the world factory. The U.S. can define itself as "the home of the world". United States has the most inclusive culture, the most democratic government, the most freedom thought, it could be the "home of world". If USA wants to keep be the model for future world, it should have a more open mind. Someone mentioned capital movement freely, but the the free movement of labor never be relialized. If the free movement of labor can not be achieved, the exchange rate trick would have to be played. ()🙂

 

[soundforbjt]

Shouldn't corporate taxes be lower in the US?

Heard an interview recently of a SIEMENS executive who said that they are delaying certain expansions here because of high corporate taxes and they will most likely expand elsewhere.

Yes, they should be lower for some. But you have to realise, with some of the loopholes in place now and with subsidies, MANY large corps (General Electric, for example) pay NO TAXES at all! How is that fair?

 

[zhangjohn]

Whether a currency of war, or general war, if it's a war, some one will die, not only us, but also you.

The Chinese currency is not freely convertible money. The money into China is easy, but when it want to go out, that's not easy. You must know, the Communist Party is the rogue, they can change the law or rule anytime. Fair play is not exist in a Communist country.

And we have a lot of U.S. debt, we can throw it anytime. So don't play a currency war.

 

[classy]

To get out of debt is really easy.
Manage Medicare and Medicaid better, making cuts where necessary. End tax breaks for individuals and companies who don't need them.
The biggest change required to get out of debt is to cut defense spending, zoink. Try getting that through without the cries of not supporting the troops, being weak on defense, and being a terrorist.

 

[Svnla]

Don't worry about the U.S. debt. The U.S. government has a great resource that can be sold. Not high technology, not a stealth aircraft, not coal. What's that? It's the green card. :biggrin:


If you sell 10 million green card one year, you can earn 1 trillion dollar per year. So, don't worry about your debt. Chinese people are willing to go to America if you have a more open mind.

They will buy new house, new car. They need doctors, lawers and many many thing. Is that a good way to solve your problem? :biggrin:

It is already happening. See my previous thread = http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2115257&highlight=

And I fully agree. Why not making some money/gain something out of it than just give it away to ILLEGALS.