U.S. dangerously close to debt limit

[ajf3]

That's one of mine biggest criticisms of Bush... I don't understand why he rufused to recoup our Iraq expenditures with their oil.... The people against the war would/are bitching either way, so why no take 25% of their product for the next decade or so?

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Pandaren
"Rise and shine. Wake up and smell the ashes." - G-Man, Half Life 2.

Nearly bankrupt people almost always keep borrowing more and more to pay their previous debts. They get more credit cards. They transfer balances. And in the end usually nothing can save them from insolvency.

I see the national debt as a looming disaster on future generations. There will be a day when those minimum payments come due, and when the government defaults, everything will go to hell...

The US is a country of debtors. Our ever increasing consumption is fueled by ever higher credit card debt. Our economy is running on those debts. Our government survives on loan after loan. People need to stop buying what they can't afford and take some personal responsibility for their actions instead of just borrowing and borrowing.

/Engineer does the rapid applause....*clap*...*clap*...*clap*


BINGO!!!

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: ajf3
That's one of mine biggest criticisms of Bush... I don't understand why he rufused to recoup our Iraq expenditures with their oil.... The people against the war would/are bitching either way, so why no take 25% of their product for the next decade or so?

Because Iraqis shouldn't pay for American mistakes. Take some responsibility and don't steal to support your warmongering habit.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
The balanced budget was based on smoke and mirrors. Increased government revenues were largely based on a stock market bubble fuel by speculation mania and corporate accounting scandals.

Bush inherited a recession and the economic effects of 9/11. I think he's done a good job considering the mess he inherited and circumstances clearly outside of his control.

And I don't. This "recession" is mostly bullsh!t. First, it came before, and not after, 9/11. Unemployment has stayed relatively low. Interest rates have maintained at all-time lows. Real estate values have jumped.

There is a lot of good and a lot of money still in our economy. Bush just likes to buy votes by cutting taxes and increasing spending, something I find unconscionable. Passing your expenses down to future generations simply because you "moral" people can't live within in your means, not in your personal lives and not with your government.

And the prosperity of the mid-late 90's was not caused by the dot-com bubble. Quite the opposite, the dot-come bubble was caused by the prosperity (people not used to having excess money had more than they knew what to do with and invested unwisely). Nor was it caused by Clinton either, but by major advancements in technology. At least he didn't stand in the way though.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Pandaren
"Rise and shine. Wake up and smell the ashes." - G-Man, Half Life 2.

Nearly bankrupt people almost always keep borrowing more and more to pay their previous debts. They get more credit cards. They transfer balances. And in the end usually nothing can save them from insolvency.

I see the national debt as a looming disaster on future generations. There will be a day when those minimum payments come due, and when the government defaults, everything will go to hell...

The US is a country of debtors. Our ever increasing consumption is fueled by ever higher credit card debt. Our economy is running on those debts. Our government survives on loan after loan. People need to stop buying what they can't afford and take some personal responsibility for their actions instead of just borrowing and borrowing.

Bingo, hit the nail right on the head.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Riprorin
The balanced budget was based on smoke and mirrors. Increased government revenues were largely based on a stock market bubble fuel by speculation mania and corporate accounting scandals.

Bush inherited a recession and the economic effects of 9/11. I think he's done a good job considering the mess he inherited and circumstances clearly outside of his control.

And I don't. This "recession" is mostly bullsh!t. First, it came before, and not after, 9/11. Unemployment has stayed relatively low. Interest rates have maintained at all-time lows. Real estate values have jumped.

There is a lot of good and a lot of money still in our economy. Bush just likes to buy votes by cutting taxes and increasing spending, something I find unconscionable. Passing your expenses down to future generations simply because you "moral" people can't live within in your means, not in your personal lives and not with your government.

And the prosperity of the mid-late 90's was not caused by the dot-com bubble. Quite the opposite, the dot-come bubble was caused by the prosperity (people not used to having excess money had more than they knew what to do with and invested unwisely). Nor was it caused by Clinton either, but by major advancements in technology. At least he didn't stand in the way though.

We have deficits because people want all the benefits of big government but they don't want to pay for them.

The balanced budget was an anomoly. If Americans really want a balanced budget, they'll have to make some sacrifices, and I don't see that happening.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Riprorin
The balanced budget was based on smoke and mirrors. Increased government revenues were largely based on a stock market bubble fuel by speculation mania and corporate accounting scandals.

Bush inherited a recession and the economic effects of 9/11. I think he's done a good job considering the mess he inherited and circumstances clearly outside of his control.

And I don't. This "recession" is mostly bullsh!t. First, it came before, and not after, 9/11. Unemployment has stayed relatively low. Interest rates have maintained at all-time lows. Real estate values have jumped.

There is a lot of good and a lot of money still in our economy. Bush just likes to buy votes by cutting taxes and increasing spending, something I find unconscionable. Passing your expenses down to future generations simply because you "moral" people can't live within in your means, not in your personal lives and not with your government.

And the prosperity of the mid-late 90's was not caused by the dot-com bubble. Quite the opposite, the dot-come bubble was caused by the prosperity (people not used to having excess money had more than they knew what to do with and invested unwisely). Nor was it caused by Clinton either, but by major advancements in technology. At least he didn't stand in the way though.

We have deficits because people want all the benefits of big government but they don't want to pay for them.

The balanced budget was an anomoly. If Americans really want a balanced budget, they'll have to make some sacrifices, and I don't see that happening.

Hmm...I wasn't aware that the average American citizen voted on the budget and signed it once it passed out of the House and the Senate.


News to me.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Riprorin
The balanced budget was based on smoke and mirrors. Increased government revenues were largely based on a stock market bubble fuel by speculation mania and corporate accounting scandals.

Bush inherited a recession and the economic effects of 9/11. I think he's done a good job considering the mess he inherited and circumstances clearly outside of his control.

And I don't. This "recession" is mostly bullsh!t. First, it came before, and not after, 9/11. Unemployment has stayed relatively low. Interest rates have maintained at all-time lows. Real estate values have jumped.

There is a lot of good and a lot of money still in our economy. Bush just likes to buy votes by cutting taxes and increasing spending, something I find unconscionable. Passing your expenses down to future generations simply because you "moral" people can't live within in your means, not in your personal lives and not with your government.

And the prosperity of the mid-late 90's was not caused by the dot-com bubble. Quite the opposite, the dot-come bubble was caused by the prosperity (people not used to having excess money had more than they knew what to do with and invested unwisely). Nor was it caused by Clinton either, but by major advancements in technology. At least he didn't stand in the way though.

We have deficits because people want all the benefits of big government but they don't want to pay for them.

The balanced budget was an anomoly. If Americans really want a balanced budget, they'll have to make some sacrifices, and I don't see that happening.

Hmm...I wasn't aware that the average American citizen voted on the budget and signed it once it passed out of the House and the Senate.


News to me.

Tha average American votes for candidates who bring home the pork. How many candidates get elected on promises to cut you benies?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Riprorin
The balanced budget was based on smoke and mirrors. Increased government revenues were largely based on a stock market bubble fuel by speculation mania and corporate accounting scandals.

Bush inherited a recession and the economic effects of 9/11. I think he's done a good job considering the mess he inherited and circumstances clearly outside of his control.

And I don't. This "recession" is mostly bullsh!t. First, it came before, and not after, 9/11. Unemployment has stayed relatively low. Interest rates have maintained at all-time lows. Real estate values have jumped.

There is a lot of good and a lot of money still in our economy. Bush just likes to buy votes by cutting taxes and increasing spending, something I find unconscionable. Passing your expenses down to future generations simply because you "moral" people can't live within in your means, not in your personal lives and not with your government.

And the prosperity of the mid-late 90's was not caused by the dot-com bubble. Quite the opposite, the dot-come bubble was caused by the prosperity (people not used to having excess money had more than they knew what to do with and invested unwisely). Nor was it caused by Clinton either, but by major advancements in technology. At least he didn't stand in the way though.

We have deficits because people want all the benefits of big government but they don't want to pay for them.

The balanced budget was an anomoly. If Americans really want a balanced budget, they'll have to make some sacrifices, and I don't see that happening.

Hmm...I wasn't aware that the average American citizen voted on the budget and signed it once it passed out of the House and the Senate.


News to me.

They vote for congresscritters which vote for and approve the budget...

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Riprorin
The balanced budget was based on smoke and mirrors. Increased government revenues were largely based on a stock market bubble fuel by speculation mania and corporate accounting scandals.

Bush inherited a recession and the economic effects of 9/11. I think he's done a good job considering the mess he inherited and circumstances clearly outside of his control.

And I don't. This "recession" is mostly bullsh!t. First, it came before, and not after, 9/11. Unemployment has stayed relatively low. Interest rates have maintained at all-time lows. Real estate values have jumped.

There is a lot of good and a lot of money still in our economy. Bush just likes to buy votes by cutting taxes and increasing spending, something I find unconscionable. Passing your expenses down to future generations simply because you "moral" people can't live within in your means, not in your personal lives and not with your government.

And the prosperity of the mid-late 90's was not caused by the dot-com bubble. Quite the opposite, the dot-come bubble was caused by the prosperity (people not used to having excess money had more than they knew what to do with and invested unwisely). Nor was it caused by Clinton either, but by major advancements in technology. At least he didn't stand in the way though.

We have deficits because people want all the benefits of big government but they don't want to pay for them.

The balanced budget was an anomoly. If Americans really want a balanced budget, they'll have to make some sacrifices, and I don't see that happening.

Hmm...I wasn't aware that the average American citizen voted on the budget and signed it once it passed out of the House and the Senate.


News to me.

They vote for congresscritters which vote for and approve the budget...

Those critters have long stopped listening to the people on the budget and deficits. It's get votes by cutting taxes AND spending more on the people.

I still feel that the deficits (trade and budget) will get us before anything else...including a war (although war may contribute more to the deficits than we can imagine).

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Riprorin
The balanced budget was based on smoke and mirrors. Increased government revenues were largely based on a stock market bubble fuel by speculation mania and corporate accounting scandals.

Bush inherited a recession and the economic effects of 9/11. I think he's done a good job considering the mess he inherited and circumstances clearly outside of his control.

And I don't. This "recession" is mostly bullsh!t. First, it came before, and not after, 9/11. Unemployment has stayed relatively low. Interest rates have maintained at all-time lows. Real estate values have jumped.

There is a lot of good and a lot of money still in our economy. Bush just likes to buy votes by cutting taxes and increasing spending, something I find unconscionable. Passing your expenses down to future generations simply because you "moral" people can't live within in your means, not in your personal lives and not with your government.

And the prosperity of the mid-late 90's was not caused by the dot-com bubble. Quite the opposite, the dot-come bubble was caused by the prosperity (people not used to having excess money had more than they knew what to do with and invested unwisely). Nor was it caused by Clinton either, but by major advancements in technology. At least he didn't stand in the way though.

We have deficits because people want all the benefits of big government but they don't want to pay for them.

The balanced budget was an anomoly. If Americans really want a balanced budget, they'll have to make some sacrifices, and I don't see that happening.

Hmm...I wasn't aware that the average American citizen voted on the budget and signed it once it passed out of the House and the Senate.


News to me.

They vote for congresscritters which vote for and approve the budget...

Those critters have long stopped listening to the people on the budget and deficits. It's get votes by cutting taxes AND spending more on the people.


Until we flatten the tax code, this is going to continue. People will vote for things that dont cost them anything


I still feel that the deficits (trade and budget) will get us before anything else...including a war (although war may contribute more to the deficits than we can imagine).

I would have to agree, but we are still not near a financial disaster.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
We have deficits because people want all the benefits of big government but they don't want to pay for them.

The balanced budget was an anomoly. If Americans really want a balanced budget, they'll have to make some sacrifices, and I don't see that happening.

You mean Republicans want all the benefits of big government but don't want to pay for them. Democrats, even those with larger incomes, don't seem to mind higher taxes (so long as the money is going where they want it to go). I don't like either party, but I can appreciate the (surprisingly) higher sense of fiscal responsiblity in the Democratic party.

This debt and deficit situation cannot go on like this forever. Nor has it always been this way (though you have to go back a few decades to when it wasn't). If we keep going down this path, someday we will have to make those sacrifices whether we want to or not, and it will be a very dark day for America.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Engineer
I still feel that the deficits (trade and budget) will get us before anything else...including a war (although war may contribute more to the deficits than we can imagine).

I agree. Deficits represent a major threat to American security and sovereignty. Those who own a thing control a thing.

War has been the cause of every major budget deficit in American history. Our problem since the end of WWII is that we have ALWAYS been at war. IMO, the fact that we just briefly touched upon a peacetime economy in the 90s was one factor (among many others) that led to that decade's prosperity and our ability to briefly balance the budget. It is a misconception in America that wars bring prosperity, probably caused by the fact that WWII coincidentally followed the Depression. But it was not WWII that cured the Depression, but renewed optimism combined with numerous technological advances.
If only the Republicans were the isolationist party again, but alas they have been bought and sold to the defense industry.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Riprorin
We have deficits because people want all the benefits of big government but they don't want to pay for them.

The balanced budget was an anomoly. If Americans really want a balanced budget, they'll have to make some sacrifices, and I don't see that happening.

You mean Republicans want all the benefits of big government but don't want to pay for them. Democrats, even those with larger incomes, don't seem to mind higher taxes (so long as the money is going where they want it to go). I don't like either party, but I can appreciate the (surprisingly) higher sense of fiscal responsiblity in the Democratic party.

This debt and deficit situation cannot go on like this forever. Nor has it always been this way (though you have to go back a few decades to when it wasn't). If we keep going down this path, someday we will have to make those sacrifices whether we want to or not, and it will be a very dark day for America.

I think that you're kidding yourself if you think the parties are that much different.

If you're really serious about balancing the budget, you should really investigate the Libertarian Party.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I think that you're kidding yourself if you think the parties are that much different.

If you're really serious about balancing the budget, you should really investigate the Libertarian Party.

Thanks for the tip, but I'm already a member of the LP

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I think that you're kidding yourself if you think the parties are that much different.

If you're really serious about balancing the budget, you should really investigate the Libertarian Party.

Thanks for the tip, but I'm already a member of the LP

I'm not registered with either of the major parties myself but I was a "values voter" this tme around.

The Libertarian Party is definitely the "thinking man's" party, imo.

 

[BBond]

Senate OKs $800B Debt Limit Hike

By ALAN FRAM, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - A divided Senate approved an $800 billion increase in the federal debt limit Wednesday, a major boost in borrowing that Sen. John Kerry and other Democrats blamed on the fiscal policies of President Bush.

The mostly party line, 52-44 vote was expected to be followed by House passage Thursday. Enactment would raise the government's borrowing limit to $8.18 trillion ? $2.23 trillion higher than when Bush became president in 2001, and more than eight times the debt President Reagan faced when he took office in 1981.

 

[Taejin]

I WANT ANOTHER TAX CUT PLZ

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Taejin
I WANT ANOTHER TAX CUT PLZ

NO. YOU'LL HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL WE CAN AFFORD IT!

NOT.

Let's make the temporary tax cuts permanent and throw a big party. There will be plenty of pork. Drinks are on the House. And no cover. And don't bother to bring any money. Our kids are paying for everything.

 

[conjur]

Kerry's comments today on raising the debt ceiling:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041118/D86DVIG00.html

In his first remarks on the Senate floor since his presidential bid ended in defeat two weeks ago, Kerry, D-Mass., said his former opponent had presided over "the worst fiscal turnaround in our nation's entire history."

He was referring to the change from the $5.6 trillion in surpluses that were projected for the next 10 years when Bush took office in 2001, to the $2.3 trillion in deficits now estimated for the coming decade. Kerry and other Democrats complained that those bills will have to be paid by future generations.

"This can be called a birth tax, a birth tax that is dumped on the back of every American child unwillingly," said Kerry, who voted against the borrowing increase.

And another little paragraph that should be noted:

Republican senators did not join in the debate, underscoring how politically uncomfortable the measure is for them. That discomfort was highlighted when they refused to bring the bill to a vote before the elections.