U.S. Appeals Court Killed Net Neutrality

[Doppel]

Most people don't have viable alternatives. Going from the one decent broadband in an area to bullshit 1 mbps DSL or similar is not an option.

If Washington didn't suck it would just mandate this unequivocally with a law and get it done with once and for all.

“But there is no evidence in the record suggesting that broadband providers are carving up territory or avoiding head-to-head competition,” the court writes. “At least anecdotally, the opposite seems to be true. Google has now entered the broadband market as a direct competitor.”

Patently ignorant.

Good. Net Neutrality is a terrible idea and would be a move to the stone ages of The Internet. It's a TERRIBLE idea from it's very premise and is only supported by idiots who don't understand the Internet or networking in general.

Wut. How do you think traffic is routed now? We are in your "stone ages".

nor would a carrier really be able to effectively differentiate ads vs legitimate content.

It's trivial to do so. Beyond easy. How can you possibly say this is great because it will let traffic receive different treatment to benefit consumers and yet at the same time say it cannot be differentiated in ways that would hurt them?

 

[Doppel]

THis is a good read. Net neutrality is dead. Bow to Comcast and Verizon, your overlords

Who deserves the blame for this wretched combination of monopolization and profiteering by ever-larger cable and phone companies? The FCC, that's who. The agency's dereliction dates back to 2002, when under Chairman Michael Powell it reclassified cable modem services as "information services" rather than "telecommunications services," eliminating its own authority to regulate them broadly. Powell, by the way, is now the chief lobbyist in Washington for the cable TV industry, so the payoff wasn't long in coming.

fuck fuck fuck that

 

[BoberFett]

Most people don't have viable alternatives. Going from the one decent broadband in an area to bullshit 1 mbps DSL or similar is not an option.

If Washington didn't suck it would just mandate this unequivocally with a law and get it done with once and for all.Patently ignorant.Wut. How do you think traffic is routed now? We are in your "stone ages".It's trivial to do so. Beyond easy. How can you possibly say this is great because it will let traffic receive different treatment to benefit consumers and yet at the same time say it cannot be differentiated in ways that would hurt them?

You just don't get it. Their product is so intelligent, everything will get everything they want and nothing they don't want.

Wait a sec, sounds an awful lot like the promises of a politician...

 

[IronWing]

I'm not selling anything. I'm the guy who builds and designs them.

We're doing this TODAY.

I thought you were working for the health insurance industry? You mean to tell you have been giving away those rants for free?!?

 

[spidey07]

Most people don't have viable alternatives. Going from the one decent broadband in an area to bullshit 1 mbps DSL or similar is not an option.

If Washington didn't suck it would just mandate this unequivocally with a law and get it done with once and for all.Patently ignorant.Wut. How do you think traffic is routed now? We are in your "stone ages".It's trivial to do so. Beyond easy. How can you possibly say this is great because it will let traffic receive different treatment to benefit consumers and yet at the same time say it cannot be differentiated in ways that would hurt them?

Detecting all the different HTTP conversations from a given page would be difficult for network hardware to do to effectively influence routing or QoS decisions at the speed needed.

Detecting the actual application like video, gaming, voice, web browsing isn't. Just WHY do you want to impede the future and progress of the Internet really? What is your motivation to do so to keep it in the stone age?

This is why I can't have conversations with idiots.

 

[BoberFett]

Detecting all the different HTTP conversations from a given page would be difficult for network hardware to do to effectively influence routing or QoS decisions at the speed needed.

Detecting the actual application like video, gaming, voice, web browsing isn't. Just WHY do you want to impede the future and progress of the Internet really? What is your motivation to do so to keep it in the stone age?

This is why I can't have conversations with idiots.

Please, explain to us, how will this magic QoS give us perfect internet with no slowdowns, without also having the ability for carriers to give preference to networks which pay them extra?

"Nice movie streaming service you've got there. It'd be a shame if something happened to your customer's bandwidth..."

And why do you hate VPNs?

 

[MrPickins]

This is why I can't have conversations with idiots.

The fact that you feel the need to call people who disagree with you idiots is why you can't hold a conversation.

 

[spidey07]

The fact that you feel the need to call people who disagree with you idiots is why you can't hold a conversation.

I'm on a completely different plane when it comes to networking than you people.

Thankfully you people aren't in charge.

 

[Doppel]

Detecting all the different HTTP conversations from a given page would be difficult for network hardware to do to effectively influence routing or QoS decisions at the speed needed.

Detecting the actual application like video, gaming, voice, web browsing isn't. Just WHY do you want to impede the future and progress of the Internet really? What is your motivation to do so to keep it in the stone age?

This is why I can't have conversations with idiots.

Earlier you said net neutrality would move it into the Stone Age, but since that is the current de facto, this doesn't jive, so now you are saying it will stay Stone Age? Strange isn't it that the providers of bandwidth are for this and the creators of content are not.

I don't claim to be a network guru, but it seems like you do. That is why I find it surprising that you insinuate you aren't aware that a single web page can be pulling from a multitude of IPs at once. You might want to tell that router in your house how difficult its job is.

 

[CrackRabbit]

I'm on a completely different plane when it comes to networking than you people.

Thankfully you people aren't in charge.

Is that why you refuse to answer Boberfett's questions?

 

[MrPickins]

I'm on a completely different plane when it comes to networking than you people.

Thankfully you people aren't in charge.

Again, not a good way to hold a conversation.

 

[spidey07]

Earlier you said net neutrality would move it into the Stone Age, but since that is the current de facto, this doesn't jive, so now you are saying it will stay Stone Age? Strange isn't it that the providers of bandwidth are for this and the creators of content are not.

I don't claim to be a network guru, but it seems like you do. That is why I find it surprising that you insinuate you aren't aware that a single web page can be pulling from a multitude of IPs at once. You might want to tell that router in your house how difficult its job is.

This is why I can't converse with idiots.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

I'm on a completely different plane when it comes to networking than you people.

Thankfully you people aren't in charge.

 

[spidey07]

I mean you people who are fucking clueless on networking.

You people who want to prevent progress of the internet?

I can't argue with idiots, good luck in your stupid. I get paid to combat you're stupidity. It's a good gig. You fucks will NOT STOP progress of The Internet. I will prevent you. You who want to stop progress are my enemy. You are technological dinosaurs, you will be overridden, you are done.

 

[MrPickins]

I can't argue with idiots, good luck in your stupid. I get paid to combat you're stupidity.

Quoted for posterity

 

[IronWing]

I mean you people who are fucking clueless on networking.

You people who want to prevent progress of the internet?

I can't argue with idiots, good luck in your stupid. I get paid to combat you're stupidity. It's a good gig. You fucks will NOT STOP progress of The Internet. I will prevent you. You who want to stop progress are my enemy. You are technological dinosaurs, you will be overridden, you are done.

Tiger blood!

 

[BoberFett]

Spidey sounds like a Democrat politician.

"We are the future! Conservatives are dinosaurs to be left behind! I'll give you a better life whether you want it or not!"

As if QoS is some new magical technology to cure all woes. QoS can prioritize, but it's always one service at the expense of another. It's silly to imagine that it will magically give everyone more bandwidth. Backbone level scale QoS with dynamic packet detection might be new, but you still can't do anything to fix a saturated link other than add more bandwidth. Other than realtime services such as 2 way communications (VOIP, video conference, etc) QoS only even matters on a saturated link. Everything else can get by with sufficient bandwidth and a bit of buffering. And once you've added sufficient bandwidth to make up for overselling, the need for QoS is minimal. What's the total ratio internet traffic of VOIP right now compared to Netflix? About 1:10,000?

 

[spidey07]

Spidey sounds like a Democrat politician.

"We are the future! Conservatives are dinosaurs to be left behind! I'll give you a better life whether you want it or not!"

As if QoS is some new magical technology to cure all woes. QoS can prioritize, but it's always one service at the expense of another. It's silly to imagine that it will magically give everyone more bandwidth. Backbone level scale QoS with dynamic packet detection might be new, but you still can't do anything to fix a saturated link other than add more bandwidth. Other than realtime services such as 2 way communications (VOIP, video conference, etc) QoS only even matters on a saturated link. Everything else can get by with sufficient bandwidth and a bit of buffering. And once you've added sufficient bandwidth to make up for overselling, the need for QoS is minimal. What's the total ratio internet traffic of VOIP right now compared to Netflix? About 1:10,000?

I love you.

You make me very rich. It's you people why I'm consulted. Thank you.

 

[Texashiker]

If I said that I would be providing information about my employer and clients. Not gonna happen.

In other words you do not want to discuss how companies are screwing their customers over?

You said my wife picked the wrong provider with verizon.

What company should she have picked?

 

[CrackRabbit]

I love you.

You make me very rich. It's you people why I'm consulted. Thank you.

Man, whomever is paying you is getting ripped off so badly. A shitty network admin with a Hitler complex and a gambling problem, is all you will ever amount to be.

 

[Bowfinger]

I'm on a completely different plane when it comes to networking than you people.

Thankfully you people aren't in charge.

Get over yourself. Being a blowhard isn't a plane, it's a character defect.

Man, whomever is paying you is getting ripped off so badly. A shitty network admin with a Hitler complex and a gambling problem, is all you will ever amount to be.

I'm guessing help desk tech with delusions of grandeur ... at best. He's way too unhinged to hold the sort of position he implies. (And you'll note he never provides details, technical or otherwise. Just lots of hand waving and belligerent declarations.)

 

[FelixDeCat]

Man, whomever is paying you is getting ripped off so badly. A shitty network admin with a Hitler complex and a gambling problem, is all you will ever amount to be.

 

[BoberFett]

LOL, the Internet never forgets.

Wanna see a funny post from Spidey07 I ran across?

http://forums.anandtech.com/archive/index.php/t-888539.html

Please do your best to get around the packet shaping, because these guys are ROBBING YOU! I'd compain to the highest authority within your university - only they can make the changes you desire. What the heck is wrong with these networks that would limit bandwidth.

IT IS YOUR internet connection. Write letters (not e-mail) to everyone in the IT department and even congress.

Demand satisfaction, only through vocal action can we get these stupid, dumb idiot universities to listen to us!

Step upto the IT department and slap them with a white glove and repeat - "I demand satisfaction"

Ya got that RIGHT! Ive had ENUF of the TOS BS.
Tell me about it. Its re-god-damn-diculous. I mean heck back at my parent's place I can download wares at a pretty good clip, but this damn university network suxors rolally. I'm getting ready to 0wnz this place. I've already complained to the Dean of computer science and the director of Campus network systems.

He'd better fix this crappy network or else. I demand satisfaction.

Even with packet shaping, those programs should download faster than that. I mean that is a lot slower than dial-up. Any other ideas?

not really, packet shaping can slow any application down to 50 bits/second if configured to do so. Packeteer for instance acutally changes the TCP windows in the TCP header and selectively ACKs receipts and drops packets to force the server and client to readjust windows sizes and speed.

pretty cool stuff really. we use Packeteer packet shapers. awesome product with complete control over bandwidt. I recommend them for the college networks I do.

Darn things are so smart they can recognize application patterns independant of TCP port number and rely on layer7 data analysis.

-edit- So what whats the Dean's response? How about the computing center? Are they going to fix this?

 

[FelixDeCat]

...

 

[FelixDeCat]

Traffic shaping is a popular idea among ISPs because it allows them to charge customers more for popular services, such as Facebook or Netflix. In this way, the Internet can be packaged into tiered categories, the same way that Cable television is packaged into basic cable, sports packages, and premium packages. Although the U.S. District Court has ruled this to be a violation of the basic principles of the Internet, ISPs see it as a way to increase profits without upgrading their networks.