U.S. and Britain illegally bombed Iraq before UN auth

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
2,487
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0
By Michael Smith

A DRAMATIC increase in US and British attacks on Iraq?s air defences in May 2002 ?to put pressure on the regime? was illegal under international law, according to leaked Foreign Office legal advice.

The deliberate decision to use ?spikes of activity? to goad the Iraqis into reacting and giving the allies an excuse for war was disclosed in the so-called Downing Street Memo, published by the Sunday Times shortly before the General Election.

It has since become a cause celebre in the United States with Democratic congressmen claiming last week that the evidence it contains is grounds for the impeachment of President Bush.

The memo recorded the minutes of a meeting of Tony Blair?s war cabinet held on 23 July 2002, quoting Geoff Hoon, Defence Secretary, as saying that ?the US had begun ?spikes of activity? to put pressure on the regime?.

MoD figures for bombs dropped on southern Iraq, obtained by the Liberal Democrats through Parliamentary Written Questions, show that the ?spikes in activity? began in May and that despite Hoon?s claim, the RAF was just as involved as the Americans.

But the Foreign Office legal advice appended to the Cabinet Office briefing paper for the July meeting made it clear that allied aircraft could only patrol the No-Fly Zones in order to deter attacks by Saddam?s forces on Iraq?s Kurdish and Shia minorities.

They had no power to use military force to put pressure of any kind on the regime because the resolution authorising their deployment did not allow the use of military action to enforce its demands.

The increased attacks on Iraqi installations, which senior US officers admitted were designed to ?degrade? the Iraqi air defences, began in May, six months before the UN passed resolution 1441, which the allies say authorized military action.

Lord Goodhart, Vice-President of the International Commission of Jurists, and a world-renowned expert on international law, said that if it were true that the ?spikes of activity? were designed to put pressure on the regime, they were illegal.

UN Resolution 688, used by the allies to justify the allied patrols over the so-called no-fly zones was not adopted under Chapter VII of the UN Charter, the chapter that deals with all matters authorising military force, he said.

"Putting pressure on Iraq is not something that would be a lawful activity in my view, ? said Lord Goodhart, who is also Liberal Democrat shadow Lord Chancellor. ?If it was intended to put pressure on Iraq then that is not authorised

The Foreign Office legal advice, which was provided to ministers in March 2002, noted that the Americans had ?on occasion? claimed that the allied aircraft were there to enforce compliance with both resolutions 688 and 687, which ordered Iraq to destroy its WMD.

?This view is not consistent with resolution 687, which does not deal with the repression of the Iraqi civilian population, or with resolution 688, which was not adopted under Chapter VII of the UN Charter, and does not contain any provision for enforcement,? it said.

Elizabeth Wilmshurst, one of the Foreign Office law officers who wrote the report, resigned in March 2003 in protest at the decision to go to war without a UN resolution specifically authorising military force.

General Peter Pace, who as vice-chairman of the joint chiefs was the deputy head of the US Armed Forces, told a Pentagon briefing on 16 September 2002, that ?the recent strikes have degraded the air defence capabilities?.

Donald Rumsfeld, US Defence Secretary, told the same briefing that he authorised the increase in bombing ?less than six months and more than a month ago?, coinciding with the May increase revealed in the MoD figures.

Asked if this was laying the groundwork for an attack on Iraq, Rumsfeld replied: ?Well it can?t hurt. I directed it.?

But by that point, the figures reveal, there had been another much larger increase in the number of bombs dropped, with the amount of ordnance used rising from around 10 tons a month to 54.6 tons in September, as the allies began what was in effect the air war.

The use of the allied patrols to begin the air war, known in the Pentagon as the Blue Plan, followed a meeting of the US National Security Council at the White House on 5 August 2002.

General Tommy Franks, the allied commander, recalled in his autobiography American Soldier, that he rejected a call from Condoleezza Rice, US National Security Adviser, to cut the patrols because he wanted to use them to make Iraq?s defences ?as weak as possible?.

More than 100 aircraft took part in one raid on September 5, which targeted a major air defence complex at the very western extreme of the southern no-fly zone, far away from any of the persecuted minorities that might have been subject to attack from Saddam?s forces.

The move to an air war was also illegal, Lord Goodhart said. "If as Franks seems to suggest the purpose was to soften up Iraq for a future invasion or even to intimidate Iraq, the coalition forces were acting without lawful authority,? he said.

Although legality has been more of an issue in Britain, the revelations suggest President Bush also acted illegally, since Congress did not authorise military action until 11 October 2002, five months after the spikes of activity began and six weeks after the start of the air war.

A swathe of recent US polls have shown popular opinion moving against the war, while spurred by the leaked memos, Democratic congressmen held a hearing last week to examine whether there was good cause to investigate whether Bush committed impeachable offences.

Reg Keys, the father of L/Cpl Tom Keys, one of six Royal Military Policemen killed in the Iraqi town of Majar al-Kabir in June 2003, traveled to Washington to take part in the hearing. Keys stood against Blair at the election, receiving more than 4,000 votes.

Congressman John Conyers, who chaired the hearing, later delivered a petition containing 540,000 names to the White House, demanding that Bush respond to the more than 100 congressmen who have asked him to say whether the Downing Street memo is accurate.

END

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1660300,00.html

Wow Michael Smith is just destroying the right-wingers, with his Whitehall and Downing Street memos.

Let me preempt the cons. It's hard to believe that even though his other typed up memos are true, verified, and authentic (Whitehall), the above story and the Downing Street Memos were fabricated. Beware of the conservative slander machine.

I particularly liked this paragraph: "Although legality has been more of an issue in Britain, the revelations suggest President Bush also acted illegally, since Congress did not authorise military action until 11 October 2002, five months after the spikes of activity began and six weeks after the start of the air war."

Nice job Mr. Bush.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: totalcommand
By Michael Smith

A DRAMATIC increase in US and British attacks on Iraq?s air defences in May 2002 ?to put pressure on the regime? was illegal under international law, according to leaked Foreign Office legal advice.

The deliberate decision to use ?spikes of activity? to goad the Iraqis into reacting and giving the allies an excuse for war was disclosed in the so-called Downing Street Memo, published by the Sunday Times shortly before the General Election.

It has since become a cause celebre in the United States with Democratic congressmen claiming last week that the evidence it contains is grounds for the impeachment of President Bush.

The memo recorded the minutes of a meeting of Tony Blair?s war cabinet held on 23 July 2002, quoting Geoff Hoon, Defence Secretary, as saying that ?the US had begun ?spikes of activity? to put pressure on the regime?.

MoD figures for bombs dropped on southern Iraq, obtained by the Liberal Democrats through Parliamentary Written Questions, show that the ?spikes in activity? began in May and that despite Hoon?s claim, the RAF was just as involved as the Americans.

But the Foreign Office legal advice appended to the Cabinet Office briefing paper for the July meeting made it clear that allied aircraft could only patrol the No-Fly Zones in order to deter attacks by Saddam?s forces on Iraq?s Kurdish and Shia minorities.

They had no power to use military force to put pressure of any kind on the regime because the resolution authorising their deployment did not allow the use of military action to enforce its demands.

The increased attacks on Iraqi installations, which senior US officers admitted were designed to ?degrade? the Iraqi air defences, began in May, six months before the UN passed resolution 1441, which the allies say authorized military action.

Lord Goodhart, Vice-President of the International Commission of Jurists, and a world-renowned expert on international law, said that if it were true that the ?spikes of activity? were designed to put pressure on the regime, they were illegal.

UN Resolution 688, used by the allies to justify the allied patrols over the so-called no-fly zones was not adopted under Chapter VII of the UN Charter, the chapter that deals with all matters authorising military force, he said.

"Putting pressure on Iraq is not something that would be a lawful activity in my view, ? said Lord Goodhart, who is also Liberal Democrat shadow Lord Chancellor. ?If it was intended to put pressure on Iraq then that is not authorised

The Foreign Office legal advice, which was provided to ministers in March 2002, noted that the Americans had ?on occasion? claimed that the allied aircraft were there to enforce compliance with both resolutions 688 and 687, which ordered Iraq to destroy its WMD.

?This view is not consistent with resolution 687, which does not deal with the repression of the Iraqi civilian population, or with resolution 688, which was not adopted under Chapter VII of the UN Charter, and does not contain any provision for enforcement,? it said.

Elizabeth Wilmshurst, one of the Foreign Office law officers who wrote the report, resigned in March 2003 in protest at the decision to go to war without a UN resolution specifically authorising military force.

General Peter Pace, who as vice-chairman of the joint chiefs was the deputy head of the US Armed Forces, told a Pentagon briefing on 16 September 2002, that ?the recent strikes have degraded the air defence capabilities?.

Donald Rumsfeld, US Defence Secretary, told the same briefing that he authorised the increase in bombing ?less than six months and more than a month ago?, coinciding with the May increase revealed in the MoD figures.

Asked if this was laying the groundwork for an attack on Iraq, Rumsfeld replied: ?Well it can?t hurt. I directed it.?

But by that point, the figures reveal, there had been another much larger increase in the number of bombs dropped, with the amount of ordnance used rising from around 10 tons a month to 54.6 tons in September, as the allies began what was in effect the air war.

The use of the allied patrols to begin the air war, known in the Pentagon as the Blue Plan, followed a meeting of the US National Security Council at the White House on 5 August 2002.

General Tommy Franks, the allied commander, recalled in his autobiography American Soldier, that he rejected a call from Condoleezza Rice, US National Security Adviser, to cut the patrols because he wanted to use them to make Iraq?s defences ?as weak as possible?.

More than 100 aircraft took part in one raid on September 5, which targeted a major air defence complex at the very western extreme of the southern no-fly zone, far away from any of the persecuted minorities that might have been subject to attack from Saddam?s forces.

The move to an air war was also illegal, Lord Goodhart said. "If as Franks seems to suggest the purpose was to soften up Iraq for a future invasion or even to intimidate Iraq, the coalition forces were acting without lawful authority,? he said.

Although legality has been more of an issue in Britain, the revelations suggest President Bush also acted illegally, since Congress did not authorise military action until 11 October 2002, five months after the spikes of activity began and six weeks after the start of the air war.

A swathe of recent US polls have shown popular opinion moving against the war, while spurred by the leaked memos, Democratic congressmen held a hearing last week to examine whether there was good cause to investigate whether Bush committed impeachable offences.

Reg Keys, the father of L/Cpl Tom Keys, one of six Royal Military Policemen killed in the Iraqi town of Majar al-Kabir in June 2003, traveled to Washington to take part in the hearing. Keys stood against Blair at the election, receiving more than 4,000 votes.

Congressman John Conyers, who chaired the hearing, later delivered a petition containing 540,000 names to the White House, demanding that Bush respond to the more than 100 congressmen who have asked him to say whether the Downing Street memo is accurate.

END

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1660300,00.html

Wow Michael Smith is just destroying the right-wingers, with his Whitehall and Downing Street memos.

Let me preempt the cons. It's hard to believe that even though his other typed up memos are true, verified, and authentic (Whitehall), the above story and the Downing Street Memos were fabricated. Beware of the conservative slander machine.

I particularly liked this paragraph: "Although legality has been more of an issue in Britain, the revelations suggest President Bush also acted illegally, since Congress did not authorise military action until 11 October 2002, five months after the spikes of activity began and six weeks after the start of the air war."

Nice job Mr. Bush.

Bush doesn't need approval from Congress to do military strikes. He only needs it if he plans on staying in a foreign country more than 60 days. Nice job totalcommand.

Oh, and since there is nobody to enforce international rules, what exactly do they mean? Nothing.
 

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
2,487
0
0
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: totalcommand
By Michael Smith

A DRAMATIC increase in US and British attacks on Iraq?s air defences in May 2002 ?to put pressure on the regime? was illegal under international law, according to leaked Foreign Office legal advice.

The deliberate decision to use ?spikes of activity? to goad the Iraqis into reacting and giving the allies an excuse for war was disclosed in the so-called Downing Street Memo, published by the Sunday Times shortly before the General Election.

It has since become a cause celebre in the United States with Democratic congressmen claiming last week that the evidence it contains is grounds for the impeachment of President Bush.

The memo recorded the minutes of a meeting of Tony Blair?s war cabinet held on 23 July 2002, quoting Geoff Hoon, Defence Secretary, as saying that ?the US had begun ?spikes of activity? to put pressure on the regime?.

MoD figures for bombs dropped on southern Iraq, obtained by the Liberal Democrats through Parliamentary Written Questions, show that the ?spikes in activity? began in May and that despite Hoon?s claim, the RAF was just as involved as the Americans.

But the Foreign Office legal advice appended to the Cabinet Office briefing paper for the July meeting made it clear that allied aircraft could only patrol the No-Fly Zones in order to deter attacks by Saddam?s forces on Iraq?s Kurdish and Shia minorities.

They had no power to use military force to put pressure of any kind on the regime because the resolution authorising their deployment did not allow the use of military action to enforce its demands.

The increased attacks on Iraqi installations, which senior US officers admitted were designed to ?degrade? the Iraqi air defences, began in May, six months before the UN passed resolution 1441, which the allies say authorized military action.

Lord Goodhart, Vice-President of the International Commission of Jurists, and a world-renowned expert on international law, said that if it were true that the ?spikes of activity? were designed to put pressure on the regime, they were illegal.

UN Resolution 688, used by the allies to justify the allied patrols over the so-called no-fly zones was not adopted under Chapter VII of the UN Charter, the chapter that deals with all matters authorising military force, he said.

"Putting pressure on Iraq is not something that would be a lawful activity in my view, ? said Lord Goodhart, who is also Liberal Democrat shadow Lord Chancellor. ?If it was intended to put pressure on Iraq then that is not authorised

The Foreign Office legal advice, which was provided to ministers in March 2002, noted that the Americans had ?on occasion? claimed that the allied aircraft were there to enforce compliance with both resolutions 688 and 687, which ordered Iraq to destroy its WMD.

?This view is not consistent with resolution 687, which does not deal with the repression of the Iraqi civilian population, or with resolution 688, which was not adopted under Chapter VII of the UN Charter, and does not contain any provision for enforcement,? it said.

Elizabeth Wilmshurst, one of the Foreign Office law officers who wrote the report, resigned in March 2003 in protest at the decision to go to war without a UN resolution specifically authorising military force.

General Peter Pace, who as vice-chairman of the joint chiefs was the deputy head of the US Armed Forces, told a Pentagon briefing on 16 September 2002, that ?the recent strikes have degraded the air defence capabilities?.

Donald Rumsfeld, US Defence Secretary, told the same briefing that he authorised the increase in bombing ?less than six months and more than a month ago?, coinciding with the May increase revealed in the MoD figures.

Asked if this was laying the groundwork for an attack on Iraq, Rumsfeld replied: ?Well it can?t hurt. I directed it.?

But by that point, the figures reveal, there had been another much larger increase in the number of bombs dropped, with the amount of ordnance used rising from around 10 tons a month to 54.6 tons in September, as the allies began what was in effect the air war.

The use of the allied patrols to begin the air war, known in the Pentagon as the Blue Plan, followed a meeting of the US National Security Council at the White House on 5 August 2002.

General Tommy Franks, the allied commander, recalled in his autobiography American Soldier, that he rejected a call from Condoleezza Rice, US National Security Adviser, to cut the patrols because he wanted to use them to make Iraq?s defences ?as weak as possible?.

More than 100 aircraft took part in one raid on September 5, which targeted a major air defence complex at the very western extreme of the southern no-fly zone, far away from any of the persecuted minorities that might have been subject to attack from Saddam?s forces.

The move to an air war was also illegal, Lord Goodhart said. "If as Franks seems to suggest the purpose was to soften up Iraq for a future invasion or even to intimidate Iraq, the coalition forces were acting without lawful authority,? he said.

Although legality has been more of an issue in Britain, the revelations suggest President Bush also acted illegally, since Congress did not authorise military action until 11 October 2002, five months after the spikes of activity began and six weeks after the start of the air war.

A swathe of recent US polls have shown popular opinion moving against the war, while spurred by the leaked memos, Democratic congressmen held a hearing last week to examine whether there was good cause to investigate whether Bush committed impeachable offences.

Reg Keys, the father of L/Cpl Tom Keys, one of six Royal Military Policemen killed in the Iraqi town of Majar al-Kabir in June 2003, traveled to Washington to take part in the hearing. Keys stood against Blair at the election, receiving more than 4,000 votes.

Congressman John Conyers, who chaired the hearing, later delivered a petition containing 540,000 names to the White House, demanding that Bush respond to the more than 100 congressmen who have asked him to say whether the Downing Street memo is accurate.

END

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1660300,00.html

Wow Michael Smith is just destroying the right-wingers, with his Whitehall and Downing Street memos.

Let me preempt the cons. It's hard to believe that even though his other typed up memos are true, verified, and authentic (Whitehall), the above story and the Downing Street Memos were fabricated. Beware of the conservative slander machine.

I particularly liked this paragraph: "Although legality has been more of an issue in Britain, the revelations suggest President Bush also acted illegally, since Congress did not authorise military action until 11 October 2002, five months after the spikes of activity began and six weeks after the start of the air war."

Nice job Mr. Bush.

Bush doesn't need approval from Congress to do military strikes. He only needs it if he plans on staying in a foreign country more than 60 days. Nice job totalcommand.

Oh, and since there is nobody to enforce international rules, what exactly do they mean? Nothing.

I know that international laws of decency mean nothing to radical fringe conservatives. Don't need to tell me.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: totalcommand
By Michael Smith

A DRAMATIC increase in US and British attacks on Iraq?s air defences in May 2002 ?to put pressure on the regime? was illegal under international law, according to leaked Foreign Office legal advice.

The deliberate decision to use ?spikes of activity? to goad the Iraqis into reacting and giving the allies an excuse for war was disclosed in the so-called Downing Street Memo, published by the Sunday Times shortly before the General Election.

It has since become a cause celebre in the United States with Democratic congressmen claiming last week that the evidence it contains is grounds for the impeachment of President Bush.

The memo recorded the minutes of a meeting of Tony Blair?s war cabinet held on 23 July 2002, quoting Geoff Hoon, Defence Secretary, as saying that ?the US had begun ?spikes of activity? to put pressure on the regime?.

MoD figures for bombs dropped on southern Iraq, obtained by the Liberal Democrats through Parliamentary Written Questions, show that the ?spikes in activity? began in May and that despite Hoon?s claim, the RAF was just as involved as the Americans.

But the Foreign Office legal advice appended to the Cabinet Office briefing paper for the July meeting made it clear that allied aircraft could only patrol the No-Fly Zones in order to deter attacks by Saddam?s forces on Iraq?s Kurdish and Shia minorities.

They had no power to use military force to put pressure of any kind on the regime because the resolution authorising their deployment did not allow the use of military action to enforce its demands.

The increased attacks on Iraqi installations, which senior US officers admitted were designed to ?degrade? the Iraqi air defences, began in May, six months before the UN passed resolution 1441, which the allies say authorized military action.

Lord Goodhart, Vice-President of the International Commission of Jurists, and a world-renowned expert on international law, said that if it were true that the ?spikes of activity? were designed to put pressure on the regime, they were illegal.

UN Resolution 688, used by the allies to justify the allied patrols over the so-called no-fly zones was not adopted under Chapter VII of the UN Charter, the chapter that deals with all matters authorising military force, he said.

"Putting pressure on Iraq is not something that would be a lawful activity in my view, ? said Lord Goodhart, who is also Liberal Democrat shadow Lord Chancellor. ?If it was intended to put pressure on Iraq then that is not authorised

The Foreign Office legal advice, which was provided to ministers in March 2002, noted that the Americans had ?on occasion? claimed that the allied aircraft were there to enforce compliance with both resolutions 688 and 687, which ordered Iraq to destroy its WMD.

?This view is not consistent with resolution 687, which does not deal with the repression of the Iraqi civilian population, or with resolution 688, which was not adopted under Chapter VII of the UN Charter, and does not contain any provision for enforcement,? it said.

Elizabeth Wilmshurst, one of the Foreign Office law officers who wrote the report, resigned in March 2003 in protest at the decision to go to war without a UN resolution specifically authorising military force.

General Peter Pace, who as vice-chairman of the joint chiefs was the deputy head of the US Armed Forces, told a Pentagon briefing on 16 September 2002, that ?the recent strikes have degraded the air defence capabilities?.

Donald Rumsfeld, US Defence Secretary, told the same briefing that he authorised the increase in bombing ?less than six months and more than a month ago?, coinciding with the May increase revealed in the MoD figures.

Asked if this was laying the groundwork for an attack on Iraq, Rumsfeld replied: ?Well it can?t hurt. I directed it.?

But by that point, the figures reveal, there had been another much larger increase in the number of bombs dropped, with the amount of ordnance used rising from around 10 tons a month to 54.6 tons in September, as the allies began what was in effect the air war.

The use of the allied patrols to begin the air war, known in the Pentagon as the Blue Plan, followed a meeting of the US National Security Council at the White House on 5 August 2002.

General Tommy Franks, the allied commander, recalled in his autobiography American Soldier, that he rejected a call from Condoleezza Rice, US National Security Adviser, to cut the patrols because he wanted to use them to make Iraq?s defences ?as weak as possible?.

More than 100 aircraft took part in one raid on September 5, which targeted a major air defence complex at the very western extreme of the southern no-fly zone, far away from any of the persecuted minorities that might have been subject to attack from Saddam?s forces.

The move to an air war was also illegal, Lord Goodhart said. "If as Franks seems to suggest the purpose was to soften up Iraq for a future invasion or even to intimidate Iraq, the coalition forces were acting without lawful authority,? he said.

Although legality has been more of an issue in Britain, the revelations suggest President Bush also acted illegally, since Congress did not authorise military action until 11 October 2002, five months after the spikes of activity began and six weeks after the start of the air war.

A swathe of recent US polls have shown popular opinion moving against the war, while spurred by the leaked memos, Democratic congressmen held a hearing last week to examine whether there was good cause to investigate whether Bush committed impeachable offences.

Reg Keys, the father of L/Cpl Tom Keys, one of six Royal Military Policemen killed in the Iraqi town of Majar al-Kabir in June 2003, traveled to Washington to take part in the hearing. Keys stood against Blair at the election, receiving more than 4,000 votes.

Congressman John Conyers, who chaired the hearing, later delivered a petition containing 540,000 names to the White House, demanding that Bush respond to the more than 100 congressmen who have asked him to say whether the Downing Street memo is accurate.

END

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1660300,00.html

Wow Michael Smith is just destroying the right-wingers, with his Whitehall and Downing Street memos.

Let me preempt the cons. It's hard to believe that even though his other typed up memos are true, verified, and authentic (Whitehall), the above story and the Downing Street Memos were fabricated. Beware of the conservative slander machine.

I particularly liked this paragraph: "Although legality has been more of an issue in Britain, the revelations suggest President Bush also acted illegally, since Congress did not authorise military action until 11 October 2002, five months after the spikes of activity began and six weeks after the start of the air war."

Nice job Mr. Bush.

Bush doesn't need approval from Congress to do military strikes. He only needs it if he plans on staying in a foreign country more than 60 days. Nice job totalcommand.

Oh, and since there is nobody to enforce international rules, what exactly do they mean? Nothing.

I know that international laws of decency mean nothing to radical fringe conservatives. Don't need to tell me.

I particularly liked this paragraph: "Although legality has been more of an issue in Britain, the revelations suggest President Bush also acted illegally, since Congress did not authorise military action until 11 October 2002, five months after the spikes of activity began and six weeks after the start of the air war."

The fact that you particularly liked that passage is ironic since it's just not true. Bombing Iraq before congress voted for war was not illegal. It just wasn't. Figures you like the passage, you libbies buy into lies really well.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Funny that we were going after Iraq ever since 91.

They violated their agreements, we slapped them for it. Resolutions existed from the ending of GWI. How convient to ignore that.

Attacking air-defense installations that were targetting our A/C is big difference in bombing civilian targets.

After the fact the anti-war pols are trying to split hairs. Every knew that Iraq was targetting A/C and the installations were being attacked in response.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Funny that we were going after Iraq ever since 91.

They violated their agreements, we slapped them for it. Resolutions existed from the ending of GWI. How convient to ignore that.

Attacking air-defense installations that were targetting our A/C is big difference in bombing civilian targets.

After the fact the anti-war pols are trying to split hairs. Every knew that Iraq was targetting A/C and the installations were being attacked in response.

but the no fly zone was not a part of any UN resolutions
 

InfectedMushroom

Golden Member
Aug 15, 2001
1,064
0
0
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Funny that we were going after Iraq ever since 91.

They violated their agreements, we slapped them for it. Resolutions existed from the ending of GWI. How convient to ignore that.

Attacking air-defense installations that were targetting our A/C is big difference in bombing civilian targets.

After the fact the anti-war pols are trying to split hairs. Every knew that Iraq was targetting A/C and the installations were being attacked in response.

but the no fly zone was not a part of any UN resolutions


but of course the bushies will ignore that, or even better, they never even heard of that. hell, who needs information when they got dumb, blind faith.

 

jahawkin

Golden Member
Aug 24, 2000
1,355
0
0
Originally posted by: yllus
Action in Iraq has been official policy since '98, so that's just a little hard to believe.

Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (PL 105-338)

Where does it say in this act that the US should be the ones invading Iraq??? I see alot of talk about providing assistance and training, but nothing about doing the job ourselves.
So no, action in Iraq by us has not been policy since '98 - read what you link to.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
*chuckles* So the real purpose of the act was, "Liberation if it's easy and other people are used to do it"? Even in Afghanistan U.S. forces played a crucial and oftentimes leading role. It's plainly obvious that with a powerful army like Hussein's they weren't going to be dismantled by ragtag rebel forces.
SEC. 7. ASSISTANCE FOR IRAQ UPON REPLACEMENT OF SADDAM HUSSEIN REGIME.

It is the sense of the Congress that once the Saddam Hussein regime is removed from power in Iraq, the United States should support Iraq's transition to democracy by providing immediate and substantial humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people, by providing democracy transition assistance to Iraqi parties and movements with democratic goals, and by convening Iraq's foreign creditors to develop a multilateral response to Iraq's foreign debt incurred by Saddam Hussein's regime.
Hey Clinton fans, are ya still whining about paying for propping up the new Iraqi administration? :)
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,058
70
91
Originally posted by: yllus

Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (PL 105-338)

October 31, 1998
.
.
.
SEC. 7. ASSISTANCE FOR IRAQ UPON REPLACEMENT OF SADDAM HUSSEIN REGIME.
Hey Clinton fans, are ya still whining about paying for propping up the new Iraqi administration? :)
Hey, yllus -- Thanks for injecting something totally irrelevant to the subject of this thread.

Now, run along like a good little neo trollie. :cookie:
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: InfectedMushroom
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Funny that we were going after Iraq ever since 91.

They violated their agreements, we slapped them for it. Resolutions existed from the ending of GWI. How convient to ignore that.

Attacking air-defense installations that were targetting our A/C is big difference in bombing civilian targets.

After the fact the anti-war pols are trying to split hairs. Every knew that Iraq was targetting A/C and the installations were being attacked in response.

but the no fly zone was not a part of any UN resolutions


but of course the bushies will ignore that, or even better, they never even heard of that. hell, who needs information when they got dumb, blind faith.

The U.N. has never taken a stance on the No-Fly zones which fall under the section of resolution 687 that adress's keeping peace in the region.

Thus the notion the No-Fly zones were illegal are false.

 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Funny that we were going after Iraq ever since 91.

They violated their agreements, we slapped them for it. Resolutions existed from the ending of GWI. How convient to ignore that.

Attacking air-defense installations that were targetting our A/C is big difference in bombing civilian targets.

After the fact the anti-war pols are trying to split hairs. Every knew that Iraq was targetting A/C and the installations were being attacked in response.

but the no fly zone was not a part of any UN resolutions

The no-fly zones were part of the termination of the GWI conflict that Iraq agreed to.

 

jahawkin

Golden Member
Aug 24, 2000
1,355
0
0
Originally posted by: yllus
*chuckles* So the real purpose of the act was, "Liberation if it's easy and other people are used to do it"? Even in Afghanistan U.S. forces played a crucial and oftentimes leading role. It's plainly obvious that with a powerful army like Hussein's they weren't going to be dismantled by ragtag rebel forces.

Great. Where is the part where it says "The US should invade Iraq and overthrow Hussein"??
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
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Originally posted by: Harvey
Hey, yllus -- Thanks for injecting something totally irrelevant to the subject of this thread.

Now, run along like a good little neo trollie. :cookie:
I didn't know anyone would mind, considering the propensity of some people to derail threads completely with their own personal rants they've only posted a dozen or so times before.
Originally posted by: jahawkin
Great. Where is the part where it says "The US should invade Iraq and overthrow Hussein"??
What was the name of that piece of legislation again? The Iraq Liberation Act, you say?
 

XMan

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Oct 9, 1999
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Big woop. We blew something up in Iraq almost every day since the end of the first Gulf War.
 

EagleKeeper

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Critics add that whatever was justified in 1991 is not necessarily justified more than 10 years later, when the reasons for continuing the air patrols may have changed.

Note the word: Critics

Note the phrase: reasons for continuing the air patrols may have changed

Seems like change of attitudes decided that 20/20 hindsight is now the rule.

Anti-war lemmings must play a lot of video games.

 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: yllus
I didn't know anyone would mind, considering the propensity of some people to derail threads completely with their own personal rants they've only posted a dozen or so times before.
Now you do so stick to the topic, or please STFU.

Note that I asked politely. :p

 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
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Or what, you'll ban me? ;) Hehe

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Keep thread crapping, and I will be glad to give you some time elsewhere to think about it.

AnandTech Moderator
 

jahawkin

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Aug 24, 2000
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Originally posted by: yllus

What was the name of that piece of legislation again? The Iraq Liberation Act, you say?

Since when did we judge legislation based on its title?? Funny when you examine the contents of the bill, nothing is said about liberation by American gunpoint.
 

mwtgg

Lifer
Dec 6, 2001
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Originally posted by: yllus
Or what, you'll ban me? ;) Hehe

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Keep thread crapping, and I will be glad to give you some time elsewhere to think about it.

AnandTech Moderator

Now if this isn't obvious, I don't know what is.
 

PowerMac4Ever

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Dec 9, 2000
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yllus, Harvey is good at the WHOIS search (word on the street)... beware of the URL in your profile.

Originally posted by: yllus.
Originally posted by: jahawkin
Great. Where is the part where it says "The US should invade Iraq and overthrow Hussein"??
What was the name of that piece of legislation again? The Iraq Liberation Act, you say?

Whether or not people agree with the war in Iraq, I think it's our duty to fix it up while we're there. That country will tear itself apart if we leave.