Typical Press overreaction

[Mnementh]

Originally posted by: Amorphus

Originally posted by: Mnementh

Originally posted by: Kenazo
Manhunt is a gross game. I don't really think anyone should be playing it. But, it is also a free country, so I don't think the Gov't should be saying they can't either. The company should have had some morals and never have made it though.

So what you're saying is according to your morals they shouldn't have made it.

I'm not trying to start a flamefest or anything so don't take this in the wrong way it's not a personal attack but everybodys morals are different and who is to say one set of morals is more correct than another?

Suffice to say if there is a market for something it will be made regardless of whether some group or faction think it's immoral (sp?), I personally think bondage and S&M are depraved and disgusting but some people are into it, that doesn't make them any less moral than me or any worse as a person because of it, it just means they have different values.

Relativism is going to be the downfall of society. You can't say "well, they think it's right, so it's okay for them..."

What about Heaven's Gate? That was their "value" they were adhering to, correct? You're going to have to come to grips with the fact that humans can, are, have been, and always will be wrong, and that some things cannot be put in relative terms. Matters of taste, yes (i.e. "I may not like that color, but I guess he does"), but not in matters of responsibility (i.e. "well, I may like to give my child clothes that fit him, but I guess he doesn't"), or in matters of morals ("well, I may not like to rape others, but some other people do, so I guess that's okay").

Morality is not hard to define, either. Rule of thumb, if it hurts someone else, or hurts yourself, it's :thumbsdown: (this excludes things like say, training for kickboxing, and the like).

Heavens Gate? I have no idea what you're talking about. As for your rule of thumb how can you decide what to exclude? Or more to the point WHO decides???

This is all really comparing apples to oranges, as far as I'm concerned when it comes to sexual matters (not the original topic I know but it was the analogy I made) as long as it's between two consenting adults then they can do whatever they want behind closed doors, I was just making the point that I personally find sm etc. disgusting that doesn't make it immoral. In the same way the people who make these games aren't immoral just because of the subject matter they are portraying happens to be violent/sexual/sexist/racist or whatever, they are making a product which will sell, guns are used to murder people but you don't go around calling gun manufacturers immoral for making them (well some people probably do but hey...).

As for the rape analogy you made, rape is illegal, hence no it's not ok to do it, s&m and violent computer games aren't illegal, hence it is ok if you like that sort of thing, BIG difference, all I'm saying is who should have the right to decide whether or not it is immoral? In those sorts of situations surely the only person who can decide is yourself and you should follow your own convictions.

And by the way I'm British, we don't have your constitutional right to free speech and expression, but that doesn't mean I don't believe in it even when as in this case people don't like it. I just wish we had something similar tbh.

 

[Rainsford]

A number of years ago, one of my high school teachers (who I thought was stupid at the time, but it turns out he's one of the smartest guys I've ever met), told me that most people totally lack cognitive skills, or at the very least, fail to use them very often. I didn't believe it at the time, but some of the posts in threads like this and other "thoughts" I've seen from people really are starting to make me wonder.

If you can't see the illogic of "Teenager plays violent game, teenger kills someone, therefore violent game made teenager kill", there is nothing I can say that will convince you of your flawed logic.

Also, regarding S&M stuff, Amorphus' "rule of thumb" (it if hurts someone else it's bad), is something a lot of people would disagree with. If both partners enjoy it, who are you to tell them they are wrong?

 

[Mnementh]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
A number of years ago, one of my high school teachers (who I thought was stupid at the time, but it turns out he's one of the smartest guys I've ever met), told me that most people totally lack cognitive skills, or at the very least, fail to use them very often. I didn't believe it at the time, but some of the posts in threads like this and other "thoughts" I've seen from people really are starting to make me wonder.

If you can't see the illogic of "Teenager plays violent game, teenger kills someone, therefore violent game made teenager kill", there is nothing I can say that will convince you of your flawed logic.

Also, regarding S&M stuff, Amorphus' "rule of thumb" (it if hurts someone else it's bad), is something a lot of people would disagree with. If both partners enjoy it, who are you to tell them they are wrong?

Exactly...

 

[Looney]

The parents of a 14-year-old boy who was bludgeoned and stabbed to death by another teenager yesterday blamed a video game for his murder.

Instead of taking responsiblity that they did such a bad job of raising your kids that they could do this, they point the finger at somebody/something else instead. In this case, it's a videogame, but it's been done in the past... on music, Accutane, Everquest, etc, etc.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: Hardcore
Instead of taking responsiblity that they did such a bad job of raising your kids that they could do this, they point the finger at somebody/something else instead. In this case, it's a videogame, but it's been done in the past... on music, Accutane, Everquest, etc, etc.

I do have to take issue with the Accutane. A number of studies have been done recently that strongly suggest there is a link between depression and Accutane. Whether or not it is independant of existing psychological conditions, or if it simply amplifies existing conditions, is yet to be determined, but from what I understand Accutane isn't very safe.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: Hardcore
Instead of taking responsiblity that they did such a bad job of raising your kids that they could do this, they point the finger at somebody/something else instead. In this case, it's a videogame, but it's been done in the past... on music, Accutane, Everquest, etc, etc.

I do have to take issue with the Accutane. A number of studies have been done recently that strongly suggest there is a link between depression and Accutane. Whether or not it is independant of existing psychological conditions, or if it simply amplifies existing conditions, is yet to be determined, but from what I understand Accutane isn't very safe.

I never said Accutane was safe, but to blame your Accutane for your son flying a plane into a building is a little absurd. And as for the depression, people who need to take Accutane are usually quite depressed anyways... they have acne that's severe enough for them to take this medication, you can bet they've been self-conscious about the way they look. Show me these studies you've seen. Correlation is not causation.

 

[Jynx980]

Originally posted by: spherrod

Originally posted by: Jynx980
While its true that video games dont make murderers out of kids Im sure it does not help. Murder simulators may be more of a correct term than you think. Take FarCry for example; how many things did you have to kill to beat the game? How many times did you yourself die or see others be killed? Doom 3 looks extremely gorey and sickening.
While blame for the media has been going on for quite some time, there is no question that our games have gotten MUCH more violent. The very term FPS (First Person Shooter) tells you somewhat of how games have evolved with more and more bloodshed. The kid definatley has some problems, but if almost all he did was play this sickening game his sense of reallity becomes warped.
In the 1950's you couldnt say the word "pregnant" on tv. Times have changed drasticly and with the innovation of such lifelike graphics whos to say that some of the blame should not fall on the media industry? Though many of you are quick to defend the video game companies, saying that "well that kid was fvked up!" But this type of violence seems to be happening more and more.
Although parents really need to pay attention to what their children are playing/watching/doing. They should really filter though these things.
Obviously this matter is much more complicated and the blame really falls in no one particular place. I myself have played violent video games and havent given it very much thought, but Im sure it affects me on many levels. I think its great that some games (soldier of fortune) have parental locks on them for level of violence. Granted shooting someone without blood and guts is still shooting someone, it is a much better option. There really is no bottom line to this. The best thing to do about it is to monitor your kids.

If you make a direct reply to my post please PM me and I will check it out. I am not subscribing cause I hate my inbox being flooded. Thanks

The main problem is the media is jumping on one aspect of this case - it's not as simple as he played a game which made him into a killer, but any other factors in his life which may have influenced have been ignored in the sensationalist press.

Thats also true. Looking for one soucre of blame cant justify anything. Maybe he was abused by his parents/guardian, took durgs, the list could go on and on. This probably wouldnt even make the news had it not been about a violent video game.

 

[Mnementh]

Copy of Manhunter was victims not the killers

According to the register it would appear the copy of Manhunter was the victims not the killers.

"The video game was not found in Warren LeBlanc's room, it was found in Stefan Pakeerah's room," a police spokesperson said today. "Leicestershire Constabulary stands by its response that police investigations did not uncover any connections to the video game, the motive for the incident was robbery."

Yet again we have an instance of people jumping on a bandwagon to blame something other than human nature as the cause of all evils.

OP might want to put this link in the original post 🙂

 

[spherrod]

Originally posted by: Mnementh
Copy of Manhunter was victims not the killers

According to the register it would appear the copy of Manhunter was the victims not the killers.

"The video game was not found in Warren LeBlanc's room, it was found in Stefan Pakeerah's room," a police spokesperson said today. "Leicestershire Constabulary stands by its response that police investigations did not uncover any connections to the video game, the motive for the incident was robbery."

Yet again we have an instance of people jumping on a bandwagon to blame something other than human nature as the cause of all evils.

OP might want to put this link in the original post 🙂

Done :thumbsup: