Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Hehe, Caddy's been polishing his BS to a fine honed shine. We may make a mirror out of him yet. But we'd better parse his words so we don't get led into the ditch:
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
It's one of these new "enlightened" ways of saying you want to be "different" and "individual".
See this is what is called a projection, where you think others operate on what drives you. Caddy forgets I say we are all the same. Far from wanting to be different, I maintain we are, really ant truly are, the same. That means, hang on, you're as good as me. Now imagine that. Actually that good. Reminds me of some words that constantly go through my head I heard from Meher Baba: "I am the Divinely Beloved who loves you more than you can possibly ever love yourself. Relax and be happy."
As to how it works? Well, nobody really knows - moony gets to set the rules for himself and I get to set them for myself also.
See, now here Caddy just gets a bit lost and makes up some stuff. It's not that complicated. When we were little, we were truly who we are. But we were hated for that and so we compromised and conformed, under torture, naturally, why else. So we sold out our true selves for the phony, and the torture made us hate who we were. Really terrible to be that way, you know. You get tortured if you do, and called every evil name. So we became the phony sellout partisan Republicans that we are instead of the devil. Nice trade, no?
It's just that I know what I love and hate(and the reasons why), whereas some are still confused or still in denial and by telling themselves they are somehow free of "labels" or "isms" it gives them a feeling of comfort and security.
Hehe, Caddy doesn't remember so he only thinks he knows. He doesn't know that to remember means to die. If you could remember you would undo the trade. You would choose the real over the false. That's what happens when you suffer. You heal.
I liken it to the fear of rejection - If you don't even try, you can't be rejected. It's a similar concept. When one doesn't try to know themselves or define themselves they won't see their own faults and failings and thus don't have to deal with them.
The need to identify, to be a part, a member, to belong, is just the opposite side of the same coin, to fear rejection. But what we fail to realize, naturally because we can't remember, is that we were already rejected and already joined.
Now, sometimes it can work in the opposite way - like trying to mask your "issues" by burying yourself in a group so as to lose your individuality. They seem to be polar opposites, but with a common "problem" driving them both - the fear of one's own short-comings and failures.
Exactly so, but remember: You have no real shortcomings or failures; they were all lies you were sold. What makes them real is that you believe them to be true.
What disappears when you love yourself is identification. Both the need to be a part or different disappear. There is no longer any unconscious pressure to conform or to rebel. The truth is always some third way that integrates opposites in higher understanding.
Ah - now we can read it
-First off - it was not purely projection, it was sarcasm
and yes it is a struggle for a so-called "individualism". People seem to want it and strive for it but like you said(and part of my point) we actually ARE the same.
-Next - Yes we do set our own "rules" for our "identifying" with a party or "ism". It isn't an all or nothing thing...you know...black/white
Identifying one's self with a party or ism isn't any more or less than you make it. I identify myself as a Republican - why? - because my Morals, Ideals, and Principles (MIPs) are held by that organization/group/ than any other one and I wish to have those MIPs represented. Hate doesn't
always play a part in Political affiliation or "isms".
Third - Wow...that's all nice and good moony but it has nothing to do with what I said
Infact I think my statement about trying to "free" ones self from "labels" or "isms" as being a way to "run away from themselves" was dead on. I'm surprised you don't agree since you are always yapping about fearing your inner self
fourth- so we kind of agree.
One problem - 2 opposite reactions to it. Now as to your "we were already rejected and already joined" comment - I agree, although I doubt we are interpreting it the same way
(although I hope we are
)
Fifth - wow another agreement(in part)?
- Your assertion that there are no failures or short-comings - I somewhat agree, but not entirely. You can fail yourself by being untrue to what you believe...but ofcourse you have to believe in something first...which is why I can understand someone saying something such as you did. If there are no beliefs there are no failures...but to pretend you believe in nothing so as to keep yourself from "failure" - is to lose before you begin. Failure isn't necessarily "bad". Failure can often be a good thing and can teach a great many lessons in life. Learning from our "failures" is what can sometimes be more important than what we failed to get/accomplish/do.
Now as to your closing comments - To love one's self does not preclude one from identification or association, because we are loving/feeling/caring beings. We have a need to associate to love ourselves - it who we are as humans. Humans are not perfect beings and we will not know true love until we depart.
CkG
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