TXAA Anti-Aliasing Makes Its Debut In Latest Update For The Secret World

[Silverforce11]

Good AA? No, not by my standards. At least if the content is "crawly". GTA4 with FXAA still looks like shit for example.

Take a look at this SW screenshot with FXAA HQ and note the marked areas. This aliasing will crawl in motion.

Good as in most of the aliasing on the entire scene is gone, not excellent or perfect and in games without MSAA, definitely better than the built in FXAA. These injectors are good because a) doesn't cause a lot of blur b) almost no perf hit. My point is that its doable and quite easy too but game devs insist on giving us crap AA modes. (I'm referring to Diablo 3's FXAA Darker mods, crisp AA with 0 perf hit, available during beta but blizzard still gave us the crap default FXAA).

 

[SirPauly]

As I said, all of the super sampled elements are part of the post process (AFAIK), so it can't be compared to traditional super sampling. It's also why the chain-link fence in the first group of screenshots you posted wasn't helped by TXAA.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1283/thesecretworlddx1120120a.jpg

The chain link fences are helped with TXAA while moving.

 

[BFG10K]

Doesn't TXAA have a super-sampled component?

No, it's a blur filter that samples outside a pixel's boundary, similar to CFAA.

 

[SirPauly]

I don't know about that:

http://timothylottes.blogspot.com/2012/07/txaa-out-30479-driver.html

 

[SirPauly]

TXAA Visual Q and A About Stills

http://timothylottes.blogspot.com/2012/08/txaa-visual-q-and-about-stills.html

 

[Gordon Freemen]

You guy's are taking it to far LOL FXAA/TXAA is inferior that's been establish end of discussion LOL.

 

[SirPauly]

Interesting quote:

TXAA relates more to the quality of 4xSGSSAA with a wider filter for cost similar to 4xMSAA. As for "texture quality", as SGSSAA with super-sampling is softer than point-sampling with MSAA, and add on top of this a wider filter as common to CG film industry, TXAA is softer but has much better filtering quality than prior methods.

 

[Gordon Freemen]

Interesting quote:

"TXAA is softer but has much better filtering quality than prior methods."
Or TXAA trashes the image quality but it works.

 

[SirPauly]

Btw it was theorized elsewhere that (because TXAA contains an MSAA part) TXAA could be upgraded to SGSSAA. And that because more information was included, the blur would be less severe. Could you maybe test that, please? Just have TXAA on and enhance SGSSAA through NV Inspector.

I'll try later on.

Hopefully TXAA works with SGSSAA or transparency super-sampling driver overrides (guessing the driver team might have tried this, but then again this is a beta driver, and I didn't exactly get them a finalized TXAA early for full testing).

This feature may improve or offer more flexibility to improve.

 

[BFG10K]

I don't know about that:

http://timothylottes.blogspot.com/2012/07/txaa-out-30479-driver.html

Again, this is not super-sampling. Super-sampling renders multiple shader/texture samples per pixel. This doesn't.

If you have documentation from nVidia that states the blur filter is super-sampling, please post it.

TXAA is is nothing more than a variant on ATi's tent filters combined with their previous temporal AA.

Also ATi's temporal AA had problems when the framerate dropped below 60FPS or if you weren't using vsync, and there's no reason to assume nVidia's version won't have similar problems.

 

[SirPauly]

Do you have documentation?

I have a quote from Timothy Lottes.


@boxleitnerb

Enhanced with x4 SGSSAA with nVinspector and TXAA enabled; and it may indeed worked but couldn't see any improvements in quality -- just frame-rates below 30.

 

[BFG10K]

Do you have documentation?

http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/the-secret-world-txaa/

To filter pixels, TXAA uses a contribution of samples both inside and outside of the pixel in conjunction with samples from prior frames, to offer the highest quality filtering possible

SSAA never samples outside a pixel, and sampling inside the pixel is done by MSAA.

I have a quote from Timothy Lottes.

Where? Post the quote please.

It's also quite funny to see him hailing it is the greatest thing since sliced bread because it blurs games like a Bluray move. Sorry, but that's not high quality. ATi was doing this stuff years ago and it flopped.

nVidia uses the words "softer image" a lot to gloss over this problem.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/the-secret-world-txaa/


SSAA never samples outside a pixel, and sampling inside the pixel is done by MSAA.


Where? Post the quote please.

It's also quite funny to see him hailing it is the greatest thing since sliced bread because it blurs games like a Bluray move. Sorry, but that's not high quality. ATi was doing this stuff years ago and it flopped.

nVidia uses the words "softer image" a lot to gloss over this problem.

TXAA isn't just SSAA though (by what the other guy is saying).. Not that I'm saying you're wrong, just your reasoning has a giant hole in it.

 

[BFG10K]

TXAA isn't just SSAA though (by what the other guy is saying).. Not that I'm saying you're wrong, just your reasoning has a giant hole in it.

This is not intended to be a personal insult, but I don’t think you’re understanding what I’m saying.

 

[f1sherman]

When to use MSAA over TXAA:

• If you value sharpness above everything(*)
• If you do not like Hollywood CG style AA
• If you don't care about aliasing in motion
• If you are fine with pixel crawling
• If you do not notice incorrect HDR with MSAA
• If white outlines artifacts do not bother you

(*)Head to your display control panel/game console and choose lowest LOD available.
Now you can enjoy your games in all it's sharpness with this ultra-crisp-makeover!

 

[BFG10K]

(*)Head to your display control panel/game console and choose lowest LOD available.
Now you can enjoy your games in all it's sharpness with this ultra-crisp-makeover!

The same equally applies to TXAA - set the LOD as high a possible. Now you too can enjoy a "movie quality, softer image" (tm).

I don't remember many people being impressed with ATi's tent modes. Maybe ATi didn't use the words "softer image" and "bluray movie quality" enough.

 

[Arzachel]

TXAA isn't just SSAA though

Is there proof to back this up? I wouldn't be surprised if thats something Nvidia's marketing conjured by calling TXAA MSAA-like or the like. Then again, for all I know it could be true.

 

[sontin]

TXAA has nothing to do with SSAA.
TXAA is a combination of 2/4xMSAA, temporary AA and another downsampling filter.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Is there proof to back this up? I wouldn't be surprised if thats something Nvidia's marketing conjured by calling TXAA MSAA-like or the like. Then again, for all I know it could be true.

I dunno, it looks ok to me.

Little bland on the textures but LoD helped that in PoE, the effect seemed similar to me with SGSSAA, it also caused the textures to go bland. I probably wouldn't use it until they added LoD to DX10+ and released a real card that would actually be capable of running LoD + TXAA within a demanding game.

 

[Gordon Freemen]

The same equally applies to TXAA - set the LOD as high a possible. Now you too can enjoy a "movie quality, softer image" (tm).

I don't remember many people being impressed with ATi's tent modes. Maybe ATi didn't use the words "softer image" and "bluray movie quality" enough.

Radeon has far better AA quality. I hardly want soft or movie like in my games and I think I speak for most on that one.

 

[f1sherman]

The same equally applies to TXAA - set the LOD as high a possible. Now you too can enjoy a "movie quality, softer image" (tm).

Yes, but that doesn't solve pixel crawling, aliasing in motion and incorrect HDR - all the things that TXAA does solve.

--Updated OP--

 

[motsm]

The chain link fences are helped with TXAA while moving.

I don't see how it's helped much, about 10 feet from the camera the fence almost completely disappears because of aliasing, and it's the same in all 3 of your screenshots.

 

[ViRGE]

I can't be the only one who notices the blatant "blurring" caused by 8xSGSSAA.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s175/BallaTF/stuff/df7cf26a.png

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s175/BallaTF/stuff/6bb43f7c.png

Pretty hard to miss that performance impact though.

If SGSSAA is done right it should not cause any blurring. I honestly don't know if that's a LoD problem or a quirk in NVIDIA's implementation; AMD's SSAA certainly doesn't do that.

Again, this is not super-sampling. Super-sampling renders multiple shader/texture samples per pixel. This doesn't.

If you have documentation from nVidia that states the blur filter is super-sampling, please post it.

TXAA is is nothing more than a variant on ATi's tent filters combined with their previous temporal AA.

Also ATi's temporal AA had problems when the framerate dropped below 60FPS or if you weren't using vsync, and there's no reason to assume nVidia's version won't have similar problems.

Slight correction BFG. ATI's Temporal AA was not "temporal AA" as we know it (that is, solving temporal artifacts like crawl). It was MSAA with a variable sample pattern in an attempt to offer cheaper MSAA by counting on the fact that the human eye has trouble distinguishing fine detail at high framerates. The "temporal" factor was that the MSAA sample pattern changed with every frame.

 

[Akantus]

I'll add my opinion to this discussion.

I absolutely hate pixel crawling, but TXAA has too much of a tradeoff in terms of severe blur. It looks like there's subtle fog all over the place. (Well at least this implementation, I'm not saying it can't get better like FXAA in MP3, and I hope it does)

Having pretty much perfect eyes, for me blur like this is even worse than aliasing(And I hate that), because they are used to seeing clearly, while this is like putting on friends glasses.
For example, default FXAA in skyrim makes my eyes hurt, because they are constantly trying to focus something which can't be focused, and in about half an hour I get headaches. And this TXAA has much more blur than skyrim's FXAA. :\

So, while I appreciate the absence of pretty much any aliasing (especially pixel crawling in motion), the tradeoff is too severe.
So, as I already said, I hope it gets better like FXAA in MP3 which is phenomenal (very little of blur, aliasing and performance penalty^_^), but for now "I personally" wouldn't use it, but I like it being an option so everyone can try for themselves, if it suits them or not.
Having more options is always better than having less options.:thumbsup:

So good job Nvidia, but some work is still needed.
And I hope next technology they make will be to move image quality forward, because image quality is the reason why I play on PC and buy expensive hardware.

 

[Silverforce11]

Having more options is always better than having less options.:thumbsup:

True, but be careful when said crap options draw away from the same dev resource pool that could have been used to implement real MSAA. If this game had MSAA along with FXAA, TXAA etc then fine, I would praise it for giving "options". But its only options are "bad" and "worse" is not good enough.