Two US Jewish advocasy groups debate inside the Israeli partliment

[JohnOfSheffield]

So you Israeli fan clubbers deny the indisputable fact that the Israeli has endorsed the Nazi concept of running concentration camps and denying Palestinians equal rights on the basis of hereditary guilt.

I have no problem in saying both Arabs and Palestinians have not screwed up also, but still, long term, its up to Israel to admit their past sins too.

We cannot change a rotten past, we can only change the existing future. Israel is increasingly skating on ever thinner ice, as the international Israeli rep is going into the toilet at an ever faster rate, smell the coffee, the past year has been nothing but an Israeli disaster. As its lost its last two key mid-east allies in Egypt and Turkey, with 14 out of 15 UN security council members voting against Israel, and still Israeli is still stupid enough to refuse the universal international demand for a settlement freeze.

Its never been my position that this is a situation where it Arabs v Israelis where only one side can win.
Why can't we find that win win for all sides?

As long as you being with describing Jews as Nazis you are going to have to concede any point made after that.

You have no idea how offensive it is because you have no fucking idea about any of what you write and don't give me shit about how one side can "win".

You don't give a shit about the daily rockets which changed from the Quassam to the Grad rockets, you don't care a bit about the people who have no life because they get alarms several times each week and have to live in bunkers, you just advertise it didn't kill anyone.

It's like you living in your basement because i'm bombarding the shit out of your house, i might not kill you though so hey, you really shouldn't ask for me to be stopped because of it.

You didn't give a shit about the entire family that was knived to death either, or the bomb in Jerusalem so do me a fucking favor, stop pretending.

Stop pretending that you don't love the idea of a new genocide of Jews when every single fucking word you type reeks of your wish for just that.

Why you have not been banned for calling Jews Nazis i don't know, it's the worst thing you can call someone and you call Jews Nazis, i wish you had the intelligence to understand how ashamed you should be for that, but obviously you do not.

 

[Lemon law]

The JOS delusion is largely contained in "As long as you being with describing Jews as Nazis you are going to have to concede any point made after that.

You have no idea how offensive it is because you have no fucking idea about any of what you write and don't give me shit about how one side can "win".

You don't give a shit about the daily rockets which changed from the Quassam to the Grad rockets, you don't care a bit about the people who have no life because they get alarms several times each week and have to live in bunkers, you just advertise it didn't kill anyone."

Earth to JOS, earth to JOS, in this entire establishment of the Israeli state in 1948, its established an entire history of Arab upon Palestinian upon an Israeli clusterfuck history of unjustifiable violence on all sides that can only gag maggots.

But if you JOS, try to be remain in denial that certain elements inside the Israeli state have done nothing but embrace Nazi principles, when its an undeniable fact that that they have, the best I can do is call forth a wambulance for you.

Earth to JOS, Earth to JOS, after 63 years of the history of State of Israeli stupidity, we are no closer than we were in 1948, to having a final solution to either the Palestinian problem or the Jewish problem.

Your damn problem JOS, is that you somehow think that only Jews are noble when they embraced Nazi behavior. And worse yet continue too.

And at the same time ignore that Palestinians have human rights too.

Once we can get past this stupid assumption that only one group can pig the holy land of Israel, we can have a peaceful holy land of Israel. What is wrong with sharing?

But if you think you can deny that large parts of present Israeli State behavior is not exactly like past Nazi behavior, that shoe fits and you should wear it.

Lets us examine past Nazi behavior.

The Nazi's confiscated Jewish property and tossed them into concentration camps after taking power post 1933. Israel did the same thing to Palestinians in 1948.

Nazi Germany based their actions on the hereditary guilt of Jews that could never be redeemed, Israel did the same thing to Palestinians and continues to do so even as we speak.

If there is not a dimes difference between the the equally representable Nazi and present Israeli government policy too, your outrage, JOS, is explained only by your own bias and lack of vision.

If you can't understand the truth, your denial of reality is not my problem. The truth may hurt but you need to confront it in all its ugly reality.

 

[EagleKeeper]

LL

Look up what the concentration camps actually were.

The Palestinians have cities where commerce is conducted.
The camps were just oversized prisons.

Those camps were not used for normal POW, they were holding pens until the Germans to decide what to do. They wanted to be able to document exactly what and when things were being done. The camps were being filled faster than planned for and the initially planned tracking system became overwhelmed.

You have either no concept of what went on at that time and why or you have so much hatred for Israel that you and others can even conceive of such a comparison.

The Palestinians live in a world of their own choosing. Some is the sins of the fathers but continues by the son; others are the fact that the Palestinians are their own worst enemy in terms of moving forward.

When offered the olive branch, they choose to burn it. Then they expect another to be offered. Eventually, the tree will be destroyed.

 

[Lemon law]

The Common Courtesy myth is that Israel ever offered an olive branch in any true manner.

Sure Israel may have offered an olive branch in exchange for the land they stole, and when Israel finds the Palestinians want the land Israel stole from them back instead, Israel professes to be amazed.

And then we can examine the Common Courtesy statement of "The Palestinians live in a world of their own choosing. Some is the sins of the fathers but continues by the son; others are the fact that the Palestinians are their own worst enemy in terms of moving forward." Surely Common Courtesy, in any large group of Palestinian sons, some may be rotten to the core, but you are saying the same thing the Nazi's said, even the best of a given group cannot be redeemed because the sins of others. And the guilt is hereditary.

Its the age old human excuse to justify inhumane treatment, be the discrimination be directed at Jews, Human slaves, Palestinians, Muslims, or whomever. It just amazes me that you can't see it in your self.----------as you use exactly the same reasoning the Nazi's used against Jews.

 

[Matt1970]

It has been proven time and time again that Palestine will settle for nothing short of the complete removal of Israel from the face of the planet. You association of Nazism is correct only it's Palestine that openly advocates the removal of a race.

 

[Lemon law]

It has been proven time and time again that Palestine will settle for nothing short of the complete removal of Israel from the face of the planet. You association of Nazism is correct only it's Palestine that openly advocates the removal of a race.

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Gee its been proven time after time, funny, I have not yet seen it proven for the first time yet.

But Gee I now understand, every Palestinian without exception is rotten and without hope or redeemable. Just what Hitler said about the Jews. And why Matt1970 is at it, every single Jew in Israel must be wonderful without exception. Including the Israeli president who is now in jail for rape, ex Israeli PM Olmert who had to was forced out because of political corruption, and especially the wonderful Israeli guy who murdered Rabin. And lets not forget that wonderful Israel who walking into a mosque with a fully automatic weapon and opened fire on those at prayer. So please tell us Matt 1970 that if four Jews are like that, all Jews must be like that. After all, its about as valid as you saying all Palestinians are like that.

Or maybe Matt1970, you can come to the realization that the Palestinian Israeli problems we have today far pre-dates the 1948 formation of Israel, there has been much wrong and violence on all sides, there is no real way to have a final solution to the Palestinian or Jewish problem, by hoping that one group or another will grow gills and swim away.

That is why, some final peace depends on either having a separate Palestinian State or in the Assimilation of the Palestinian people with equal rights back into Israel.

Israeli hard liners do not want either of those two alternatives, but the days of delaying are rapidly running out as world pressure against Israel keeps growing at an ever increasing rate.

 

[JEDIYoda]

And then we can examine the Common Courtesy statement of "The Palestinians live in a world of their own choosing. Some is the sins of the fathers but continues by the son; others are the fact that the Palestinians are their own worst enemy in terms of moving forward." Surely Common Courtesy, in any large group of Palestinian sons, some may be rotten to the core, but you are saying the same thing the Nazi's said, even the best of a given group cannot be redeemed because the sins of others. And the guilt is hereditary.

You should really be ashamed of yourself! That is NOT what Common Courtesy is saying at all.
First of all nobody can say for sure but I would wager that had Hamas NOT been elected the representative government for the people who call themselves 'Palestinians" that a lasting peace would be closer to a reality than it is.
The problem lies in that the parents are teaching their children the same crap and thus the children are growing up doing the same exact stuff!! Why? Because that is what they are being taught! Nothing hereditary about that!
We say the people who call themselves Palestinians appear to be their own worse enemy.

You need to calm down and stop sensationalizing your dreamed up analysis of the situation.

You also need to lay off that NAZI garbage that you are spewing.

The Nazi`s never said the best of a given group cannot be redeemed. On the contrar quite a few of the most learned Jews were actually working for and with the NAZI`s developing weapons and what not. -- I could tell you stories about how that backfired on the NAZI`s, but they never understood.

There is tremendous hope for the people who call themselves Palestinians; but they need to stand up and look out for themselves just like these groups who have stood up against their government in other middle eastern places.
The people who call themselves Palestinians need to take back from Hamas and whatever other group is standing in the way of peace and say we want Peace with Israel.

Israel as a country cannot be expected to negotiate or talk with groups that openly call for their destruction.

On the other side of the coin Israel is as culpable as the Palestinian`s and or Hamas and any other group that is standing in the way of peace!!

Just my opinion which is almost 100% pro-Israel.

Address the issue and stop using that childish NAZI reference when it has no bearing on what is happening in the middle east.
Plus you are only using the reference to try to sensationalize your side of the story....

 

[EagleKeeper]

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Gee its been proven time after time, funny, I have not yet seen it proven for the first time yet.

But Gee I now understand, every Palestinian without exception is rotten and without hope or redeemable. Just what Hitler said about the Jews. And why Matt1970 is at it, every single Jew in Israel must be wonderful without exception. Including the Israeli president who is now in jail for rape, ex Israeli PM Olmert who had to was forced out because of political corruption, and especially the wonderful Israeli guy who murdered Rabin. And lets not forget that wonderful Israel who walking into a mosque with a fully automatic weapon and opened fire on those at prayer. So please tell us Matt 1970 that if four Jews are like that, all Jews must be like that. After all, its about as valid as you saying all Palestinians are like that.

Or maybe Matt1970, you can come to the realization that the Palestinian Israeli problems we have today far pre-dates the 1948 formation of Israel, there has been much wrong and violence on all sides, there is no real way to have a final solution to the Palestinian or Jewish problem, by hoping that one group or another will grow gills and swim away.

That is why, some final peace depends on either having a separate Palestinian State or in the Assimilation of the Palestinian people with equal rights back into Israel.

Israeli hard liners do not want either of those two alternatives, but the days of delaying are rapidly running out as world pressure against Israel keeps growing at an ever increasing rate.

Israeli hardliners may not want either option, but mainstream Israel is willing to accept the first option.

The Palestinians do not want or can not accept the first option. They are hoping that they can force ISrael to grow gills and swim away via people like you that want to give the Palestinians everything that they deman.

And your vaunted increasing rate of world opinion seems to be stuck in reverse.

Where is Turkish warships excorting blockade runners.
Where are the Arabs sending fleets of ships and supplies into Gaza.

The Palestinians are a bump on a warthg's ass.

If the world is not caring about Syria protests; why would you thing that the Palestinians mean anything to them.

All these protexts may be the best thing for the Paletinians. Remove there political Arab league sponsors and install some that see the light. A Palestinina state is viable once they admit ISrael should also exist.

Have the Palestinians rebel against their corrupt leadership.

 

[Freshgeardude]

So you Israeli fan clubbers deny the indisputable fact that the Israeli has endorsed the Nazi concept of running concentration camps and denying Palestinians equal rights on the basis of hereditary guilt.

israel is no where near comparable to the Nazis. you are so clueless

I have no problem in saying both Arabs and Palestinians have not screwed up also, but still, long term, its up to Israel to admit their past sins too.

Wow. the arabs and palestinians have screwed up HUNDREDS of folds more than israel and NEVER admit it!

Israel, if it screws up, actually apologizes and tries to compensate.

has the arab world made up for the hundreds of thousands of jews it kicked out of their countries?

has it made up for the wars it started with israel?

have the palestinians actually convict any terrorists? or are they just naming places after terrorists still

We cannot change a rotten past, we can only change the existing future. Israel is increasingly skating on ever thinner ice, as the international Israeli rep is going into the toilet at an ever faster rate, smell the coffee, the past year has been nothing but an Israeli disaster. As its lost its last two key mid-east allies in Egypt and Turkey, with 14 out of 15 UN security council members voting against Israel, and still Israeli is still stupid enough to refuse the universal international demand for a settlement freeze.

Oil politics.

that is why 14/15 countries voted against israel.


Its never been my position that this is a situation where it Arabs v Israelis where only one side can win.
Why can't we find that win win for all sides?

Israel offered SO much more than you think.

They have offered all of the land settled on to the palestinains, with a little mix matching for some land, and the palestinians said no.

what about that?

but in your eyes, israel didnt offer enough.

you are just the same as the palestinians, nothing will be enough, they just want the jews out.

 

[Lemon law]

Lets look at the twin Common Courtesy statements.

1. "The Palestinians are a bump on a warthg's ass." At only some 3 million inside of Israel population, maybe Common Courtesy is right, but given the fact that Israeli Jews inside of Israel don't even amount to six million, I guess it makes Israel at best as important as two bumps on a warthogs ass.

2. "If the world is not caring about Syria protests; why would you thing that the Palestinians mean anything to them." Well, the Syrian protest only started in the past two weeks or so, but the world has now shown they are concerned enough about a longer standing Libyan conflict to enforce a no fly zone in Libya. Syria may end up the next lucky country if the dictator Assad not straighten up his act.

As for Israel, 14 out of 15 countries in the UN security council voted to straighten up the Israeli act, and only the Veto of the USA saved Israeli butt. One day and its fast coming, the USA will not save Israeli butt in the security council. To some extent, Israel is like an earthquake, the longer the tectonic stresses build up without a major earthquake, the bigger the coming earthquake is going to be.

 

[Freshgeardude]

also, its good to note one thing.


when the white house administration was debating on whether or not to veto the UN resolution on Israel's settlements, they had to make a tough decision: if the dont veto, they will get anger from israel, and from inside the US, if they do Veto, they felt they could put american lives at risk around the world.


but hey look. where are the anti-american protests against the veto?

no where.

when it comes down to it, all of the protests in the middle east are about their own countries, no where else.


how much i'd bet, that all of this "we support the palestinians" is some ploy by the middle east governments and not the people's desire.

im sure they couldnt give two shits about some few million in Israel under security check points, while they have to deal with a manarchy or totalitarian regimes.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Lets look at the twin Common Courtesy statements.

1. "The Palestinians are a bump on a warthg's ass." At only some 3 million inside of Israel population, maybe Common Courtesy is right, but given the fact that Israeli Jews inside of Israel don't even amount to six million, I guess it makes Israel at best as important as two bumps on a warthogs ass.

with over 212 million in the middle east, 3 million is a fucking pimple on the ass of an elephant.

2. "If the world is not caring about Syria protests; why would you thing that the Palestinians mean anything to them." Well, the Syrian protest only started in the past two weeks or so, but the world has now shown they are concerned enough about a longer standing Libyan conflict to enforce a no fly zone in Libya. Syria may end up the next lucky country if the dictator Assad not straighten up his act.

its awesome to see all of these protests. not because people are being killed, of course not, but to see how horrible the situation is for the people in these countries.

and not ONE protest in Israel.

Syria had protests at the time of Lebanon's government change, they werent as large as it started 2 weeks ago.

even that. 2 weeks is a shit long time to report news.

if something takes 2 weeks for to be put on mainstream media, its obviously not important for them


As for Israel, 14 out of 15 countries in the UN security council voted to straighten up the Israeli act, and only the Veto of the USA saved Israeli butt. One day and its fast coming, the USA will not save Israeli butt in the security council. To some extent, Israel is like an earthquake, the longer the tectonic stresses build up without a major earthquake, the bigger the coming earthquake is going to be.

and im glad AIPAC is as strong as it is. Oil politics on the other hand is strong enough for 14 counties.

:sneaky:

 

[EagleKeeper]

Isrqael would gladly have turned over the settlements if the Palestinians would sign off on a peace treaty.

The problem is the Palestinians have said that they would not.

Israel froze settlement construction for 10 months to allow the Palestinans theirr victory and then come to the table to sign off on a peace teaty. The Paletinains would not.

As stated before, the leftist group that wants to counter act AIPAC is a bunch of rose colored people that are able to be manipulated becuase they have no real experience as to what peace is and the cost of such.

 

[_GTech]

There is one thing I do like about Israel, it's their ability to assassinate people, and that they can piss off every other nation around them... Almost every nation hates this nation, but please don't ask me why, so they are constantly struggling & fighting to keep what little they have.

If it wasn't for the USA, they would have been overrun a long time ago, though take heed, because they are not without help, and those that move to crush this nation may see something miraculous happen. Though, the support of the US doesn't give them rights to act as they wish, and no matter what they choose to do, doing so without the support of the US would be very foolish.

 

[Lemon law]

Isrqael would gladly have turned over the settlements if the Palestinians would sign off on a peace treaty.

The problem is the Palestinians have said that they would not.

Israel froze settlement construction for 10 months to allow the Palestinans theirr victory and then come to the table to sign off on a peace teaty. The Paletinains would not.

As stated before, the leftist group that wants to counter act AIPAC is a bunch of rose colored people that are able to be manipulated becuase they have no real experience as to what peace is and the cost of such.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hate to tell you Common Courtesy, but you speak with a forked tongue. Wikileaks just released just how far the Palestinians negotiators were willing to go in making huge one sided pro-Israeli concessions while Olmert was still PM. But just as the deal was about to be inked, Olmert fell in a corruption scandal. And now Bozo Netanyuhu has made it clear, nothing but Israel pigging it ALL is acceptable to Israeli hardliners.

Just another little inconvenient fact that shows the rational, that Common Courtesy simply speaks with a forked tongue.

The fact is and remains, the Palestinians are much like our pre 1865 American slaves, they had to wait for American abolitionists to free them, because they lacked any armed ability to free themselves.

But well hell, what happens if the Arab world sends the Palestinians the arms to free themselves? We already know that answer, Israeli screams bloody murder if they get any arms through a few smuggling tunnels, which will never amount to a tiny fraction of enough to arms to make a fair fight of it.

 

[Freshgeardude]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hate to tell you Common Courtesy, but you speak with a forked tongue. Wikileaks just released just how far the Palestinians negotiators were willing to go in making huge one sided pro-Israeli concessions while Olmert was still PM. But just as the deal was about to be inked, Olmert fell in a corruption scandal. And now Bozo Netanyuhu has made it clear, nothing but Israel pigging it ALL is acceptable to Israeli hardliners.

Just another little inconvenient fact that shows the rational, that Common Courtesy simply speaks with a forked tongue.

The fact is and remains, the Palestinians are much like our pre 1865 American slaves, they had to wait for American abolitionists to free them, because they lacked any armed ability to free themselves.

But well hell, what happens if the Arab world sends the Palestinians the arms to free themselves? We already know that answer, Israeli screams bloody murder if they get any arms through a few smuggling tunnels, which will never amount to a tiny fraction of enough to arms to make a fair fight of it.

oh what the fuck.


10,000 rockets isnt enough?


really? a FEW smuggling tunnels?


if it was truely a few, israel would have already bombed them all.


you are so dumb



Arafat was offered http://www.jewishfederations.org/page.aspx?id=101041

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered to withdraw from 97 percent of the West Bank and 100 percent of the Gaza Strip. In addition, he agreed to dismantle 63 isolated settlements. In exchange for the 5 percent annexation of the West Bank, Israel would increase the size of the Gaza territory by roughly a third.

Barak also made previously unthinkable concessions on Jerusalem, agreeing that Arab neighborhoods of East Jerusalem would become the capital of the new state. The Palestinians would maintain control over their holy places and have "religious sovereignty" over the Temple Mount.

According to U.S. peace negotiator Dennis Ross, Israel offered to create a Palestinian state that was contiguous, and not a series of cantons. Even in the case of the Gaza Strip, which must be physically separate from the West Bank unless Israel were to be cut into non-contiguous pieces, a solution was devised whereby an overland highway would connect the two parts of the Palestinian state without any Israeli checkpoints or interference.
The proposal also addressed the refugee issue, guaranteeing them the right of return to the Palestinian state and reparations from a $30 billion international fund that would be collected to compensate them.
Israel also agreed to give the Palestinians access to water desalinated in its territory.
Arafat was asked to agree to Israeli sovereignty over the parts of the Western Wall religiously significant to Jews (i.e., not the entire Temple Mount), and three early warning stations in the Jordan valley, which Israel would withdraw from after six years. Most important, however, Arafat was expected to agree that the conflict was over at the end of the negotiations. This was the true deal breaker. Arafat was not willing to end the conflict. "For him to end the conflict is to end himself," said Ross.30c

The prevailing view of the Camp David/White House negotiations - that Israel offered generous concessions, and that Yasser Arafat rejected them to pursue the intifada that began in September 2000 - prevailed for more than a year. To counter the perception that Arafat was the obstacle to peace, the Palestinians and their supporters then began to suggest a variety of excuses for why Arafat failed to say "yes" to a proposal that would have established a Palestinian state. The truth is that if the Palestinians were dissatisfied with any part of the Israeli proposal, all they had to do was offer a counterproposal.

They never did.

the palestinians do not want the land. they want an excuse. its been this way since 1948.

 

[theeedude]

http://www.aipac.org/NearEastReport/20101025/AIPAC_High_School_Summit.html

Musician Michael Newman, beauty pageant winner Christiana Lowe (Miss Utah) and retired NBA player Paul Grant each shared their AIPAC stories


all not jewish.

all I met at the AIPAC high school summit I attended last year.


shocker right?

This has what to do with what? I don't have a problem with non-Jews joining AIPAC. It's Israel that has a problem with Jews joining J Street instead of AIPAC.

 

[EagleKeeper]

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I hate to tell you Common Courtesy, but you speak with a forked tongue. Wikileaks just released just how far the Palestinians negotiators were willing to go in making huge one sided pro-Israeli concessions while Olmert was still PM. But just as the deal was about to be inked, Olmert fell in a corruption scandal. And now Bozo Netanyuhu has made it clear, nothing but Israel pigging it ALL is acceptable to Israeli hardliners.

Just another little inconvenient fact that shows the rational, that Common Courtesy simply speaks with a forked tongue.

The fact is and remains, the Palestinians are much like our pre 1865 American slaves, they had to wait for American abolitionists to free them, because they lacked any armed ability to free themselves.

But well hell, what happens if the Arab world sends the Palestinians the arms to free themselves? We already know that answer, Israeli screams bloody murder if they get any arms through a few smuggling tunnels, which will never amount to a tiny fraction of enough to arms to make a fair fight of it.

What else did WikiLeaks indicate about the Palestinians that you conveniently forget to disclose.

1) Egypt was fed up with them
2) That Abbas knew in advance that nothing would be acceptable by the PA and the Arab League which is why he never showed up when the Palestinians were handed the settlement talk freeze. He did not have the authority to deal.

So, if the Palestinians are unable to have the authority to try to make peace or come to a resolution; why are you so insistent on placing the blame on Israel.

Israel had political issues in extracting themselves from Gaza. Yet for what they thought was the sake of peace, the put their internal differences aside and left with the hope that the land for peace that the Palestinians always talked about would bear fruit. That did not happen, it emboldened the Palestinians militants into thinking that if they harassed Israel more, Israel would give up more.

Peace talks will only work when both sides are able to seal a deal.
On the Palestinian side,they have never had the authority to do so, either internal fractures or external supporters.


You can twist the facts around to try to favor the Palestinians; however, no Wiki has shown what many of us suspected. The Palestinians have feet of clay and are not able to politically be a state.

I personally would love for there to be a state. I also expect to see how corrupt the Palestinians can make it. They did good under Arafat if getting funds funneled into bank accounts. The same is happening under Hamas in Gaza.

As a state, they actually have to be responsible. And also responsible for everything that goes on with the state.
Hamas should pay attention; they will not be able to take a pass on responsibility of actions of others.

But well hell, what happens if the Arab world sends the Palestinians the arms to free themselves? We already know that answer, Israeli screams bloody murder if they get any arms through a few smuggling tunnels, which will never amount to a tiny fraction of enough to arms to make a fair fight of it.

Fair fights are for sckers.

Why do they need to send arms through the tunnels?

• Take an Iranian war ship, pack it with all the arms that are needed and sail up to the port in Gaza.
• Or put all the heavy weapons on a cargo ship; and escort it from Turkey by warship.

The first option has been tried and failed multiple times. The problem there is that they can not get an actaul warship to try to run the blockade. Some loyalty to the Iranian puppets there.

The second option was suggested by a well respected member of the world body whom has intimate knowledge and understanding of the Palestinians and how the situtation should be resolved. And was laughed so hard out of the UN that people forgot to reference his proposal in the media coverage.

 

[Lemon law]

The Common Courtesy con job is largely in, "What else did WikiLeaks indicate about the Palestinians that you conveniently forget to disclose.

1) Egypt was fed up with them"

Gee garhootie, Ole corrupt Mubarak was fed up with the Pals, because Mubarak wanted all those Washington bribes to keep flowing in like they had for the past 30 years. And even that is a little bit of an epic fail stretch, because in the past six months since the Israeli boarding of the Rachel Corrie in international waters, because even Mubarak went on record as opposing that Israeli policy and followed up by relaxing his co-operation in Boycotting the Gaza economy.

But that is not where Common Courtesy is dead wrong, because ole Mubarak is already deposed and all his corruption no longer exists. What happens in future to any Egyptian co-operation with the Israeli blockade of Gaza is now ancient history.

Silly Common Courtesy, as he cites a past that has already changed as proof that nothing ever changes.

 

[Freshgeardude]

This has what to do with what? I don't have a problem with non-Jews joining AIPAC. It's Israel that has a problem with Jews joining J Street instead of AIPAC.

AIPAC and Israel are not affiliated in any way.

what aipac does is support israel whatever her actions are.


Israel obviously enjoys support by AIPAC but I dont see Israel having a problem with jews joining whatever it wants.


secondly, that was an example that not only jews support israel/aipac

 

[Freshgeardude]

Hey LL i love how you skip right over my post with hard facts. its actually comical.

 

[Freshgeardude]

The Common Courtesy con job is largely in, "What else did WikiLeaks indicate about the Palestinians that you conveniently forget to disclose.

1) Egypt was fed up with them"

Gee garhootie, Ole corrupt Mubarak was fed up with the Pals, because Mubarak wanted all those Washington bribes to keep flowing in like they had for the past 30 years. And even that is a little bit of an epic fail stretch, because in the past six months since the Israeli boarding of the Rachel Corrie in international waters, because even Mubarak went on record as opposing that Israeli policy and followed up by relaxing his co-operation in Boycotting the Gaza economy.

But that is not where Common Courtesy is dead wrong, because ole Mubarak is already deposed and all his corruption no longer exists. What happens in future to any Egyptian co-operation with the Israeli blockade of Gaza is now ancient history.

Silly Common Courtesy, as he cites a past that has already changed as proof that nothing ever changes.

and I see here you skipped over number 2.


2) That Abbas knew in advance that nothing would be acceptable by the PA and the Arab League which is why he never showed up when the Palestinians were handed the settlement talk freeze. He did not have the authority to deal.




but sure, seeing the world through the eyes of a peep hole sure makes things look in black and white

 

[JEDIYoda]

There is one thing I do like about Israel, it's their ability to assassinate people, and that they can piss off every other nation around them... Almost every nation hates this nation, but please don't ask me why, so they are constantly struggling & fighting to keep what little they have.<-- you have no clue how many nations support and have supported Israel under the table. Why? because if there was no Israel somebody else would be the target. Dude -- Muslims cannot even get along with themsleves figure that one out!!

If it wasn't for the USA, they would have been overrun a long time ago, <--- not true at all!! Israel was doing just fine before the US decided to support israel. Israel did NOT ask for support!! But why look a gift horse in the mouth!

though take heed, because they are not without help, and those that move to crush this nation may see something miraculous happen. Though, the support of the US doesn't give them rights to act as they wish, and no matter what they choose to do, doing so without the support of the US would be very foolish.<--- You have no idea what you are talking about. israel does not need the United states. Be thankful the rest of the middle east needs the United States to back Israel At present moment Israel doesn`t to fight with a vengeance for survival. But if the United States backed out of backing Israel then you would know exactly why I say Israel does not at present have to fight for survival. Israel did not the support or help of the United states back in 1948....if and when the United States decides to quit backing Israsel you will see a very different aggresive IDF!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_&#37;E2%80%93_United_States_relations

Eisenhower Administration (1953-1961) This section requires expansion.

During these years of austerity, the United States provided Israel moderate amounts of economic aid, mostly as loans for basic food stuffs; a far greater share of state income derived from German war reparations, which were used for domestic development.

France became Israel's main arms supplier at this time and provided Israel with advanced military equipment and technology. This support was seen by Israel to counter the perceived threat from Egypt under President Gamal Abdel Nasser with respect to the "Czech arms deal" of September 1955. During the 1956 Suez Crisis for differing reasons, France, Israel and Britain colluded to topple Nasser by regaining control of the Suez Canal, following its nationalization, and to occupy parts of western Sinai assuring free passage of shipping in the Gulf of Aqaba.[15] In response, the U.S., with support from Soviet Union at the United Nations intervened on behalf of Egypt to force a withdrawal. Afterward, Nasser expressed a desire to establish closer relations with the United States. Eager to increase its influence in the region, and prevent Nasser from going over to the Soviet Bloc, U.S. policy was to remain neutral and not become too closely allied with Israel. In the early 1960s, the U.S. would begin to sell advanced, but defensive, weapons to Israel, Egypt and Jordan, including Hawk anti aircraft missiles.

 

[Lemon law]

FGD is not arrogant enough to demand I address every stupid point he makes, no matter how foolish, he then comes back and says, "and I see here you skipped over number 2.


2) That Abbas knew in advance that nothing would be acceptable by the PA and the Arab League which is why he never showed up when the Palestinians were handed the settlement talk freeze. He did not have the authority to deal.
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In terms of authority to deal, The President of the USA lacks that authority also. Because any treaty he makes must be ratified by the Senate. Just a few short months ago the GOP threatened to block the Senate consent on the Nuclear arms reduction pact Obama signed with Russia, but in the end the Senate ratified the treaty. But President Wilson, also signed off on the treaty that authorized the League of Nations, and had the humiliation to see the Senate refuse to sign off. Making the treaty null and void.


Abbas and his negotiating term came close to finalizing a deal, and had it happened that both sides signed, Israel still would need to added authority of the Parliament and Abbas would have to put it to the vote of the people of the West Bank to make it final. And for that matter, even Hamas in Gaza pledged to put any West Bank brokered peace deal up to the vote of the the people of Gaza.

But that was the calculus that any negotiating term faces, they hope the joy of having a final deal will outweigh all the painful concessions they had to make. The deal was very close to being a complete package when Olmert fell, which is why Obama and others were optimistic the process could be completed this year. And the opening position of Netanyuhu was he wanted to start with a completely clean sheet of paper rather than build on years of prior work while talking and talking and building and settling
on disputed land.

Maybe FGD, Netanyuhu fools you, but the rest of the world sides with the Abbas boycott of a charade. And that settlement freeze demand will keep coming at Israel and keep coming until Israel comes back to the peace table with no incentive to stall. After all, it was at the peace table at Annapolis where Israel lost all world cred.

 

[Freshgeardude]

FGD is not arrogant enough to demand I address every stupid point he makes, no matter how foolish, he then comes back and says, "and I see here you skipped over number 2.


2) That Abbas knew in advance that nothing would be acceptable by the PA and the Arab League which is why he never showed up when the Palestinians were handed the settlement talk freeze. He did not have the authority to deal.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In terms of authority to deal, The President of the USA lacks that authority also. Because any treaty he makes must be ratified by the Senate. Just a few short months ago the GOP threatened to block the Senate consent on the Nuclear arms reduction pact Obama signed with Russia, but in the end the Senate ratified the treaty. But President Wilson, also signed off on the treaty that authorized the League of Nations, and had the humiliation to see the Senate refuse to sign off. Making the treaty null and void.


Abbas and his negotiating term came close to finalizing a deal, and had it happened that both sides signed, Israel still would need to added authority of the Parliament and Abbas would have to put it to the vote of the people of the West Bank to make it final. And for that matter, even Hamas in Gaza pledged to put any West Bank brokered peace deal up to the vote of the the people of Gaza.

bull fucking shit. hamas was the first to denounce the peace talks and even had israelis killed in the west bank to try and stop the process. thats complete bullshit

But that was the calculus that any negotiating term faces, they hope the joy of having a final deal will outweigh all the painful concessions they had to make. The deal was very close to being a complete package when Olmert fell, which is why Obama and others were optimistic the process could be completed this year. And the opening position of Netanyuhu was he wanted to start with a completely clean sheet of paper rather than build on years of prior work while talking and talking and building and settling
on disputed land.

Maybe FGD, Netanyuhu fools you, but the rest of the world sides with the Abbas boycott of a charade. And that settlement freeze demand will keep coming at Israel and keep coming until Israel comes back to the peace table with no incentive to stall. After all, it was at the peace table at Annapolis where Israel lost all world cred.

look at bold