Two Sentenced for Trying to Join Taliban

[miguel]

Foxnews Link (it's an AP story, RELAX!)

Silly wanna be terrorists....

 

[Zebo]

pleaded guilty in October to conspiracy to levy war against the United States.

quite different than what you said.

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: Zebo

pleaded guilty in October to conspiracy to levy war against the United States.

quite different than what you said.

I stand corrected. Silly Terrorists.

 

[Witling]

Boy, I'd urge people to read the article cited as the basis for this thread. Stand and tremble. Here's a quote.

"Both [defendants] said that in trying to reach Afghanistan (search), they were fulfilling their Islamic duty to defend fellow Muslims." [Emphasis added.]

OK, so we just put two guys away for 18 years (at taxpayer's expense). These guys couldn't even get to Afghanistan without getting caught (Hint: Fly to Pakistan and then go northwest.) Gee, they sound dangerous. Just a mere 204,879, 137 more to go and we've defeated terrorism.

Here's a quote from the judge.

"U.S. District Judge Robert E. Jones admonished Ford by saying: "You do not represent the Muslim faith. Muslims do not engage in the activities you engaged in. You are an insult to that faith."

Jones also brushed aside Ford's claim that he was motivated by a humanitarian desire to help Afghan civilians, saying Ford had clearly intended to join the Taliban as a foot soldier and would have killed U.S. soldiers if he had a chance. "

These two guys just drew 18 years for what they might have done if they'd been bright enough to do it. Fortunately the judge knew what they would have done. Can you spell "hysteria?"

 

[miguel]

Whit,

You can't seriously be advocating waiting for them to actually pick up a rifle and fire a shot are you? At what point do you stop crimes from being committed?

Do you realize that you can go into a music store and fill your pockets with CDs and they can't arrest you until you try and leave the store? That's utterly ridiculous!

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: miguel
Whit,

You can't seriously be advocating waiting for them to actually pick up a rifle and fire a shot are you? At what point do you stop crimes from being committed?

Do you realize that you can go into a music store and fill your pockets with CDs and they can't arrest you until you try and leave the store? That's utterly ridiculous!

You prevent crimes by watching out for yourself and those closest to you, but you NEVER EVER stop a crime before it's commited, because it is NOT a crime at that point, just a thought, an idea. What's ridiculous is someone that thinks it's ok to attempt to squash thought, ideas. Did you see minority report? It didn't go near far enough into the theory and realities of trying to intervene in what hasn't occured yet. You think I should be arrested if I put a cd in my pocket to take it up to the counter because my hands are full?

I'd rather wed my daughter to the worst rapist sitting in federal prison, than someone like you that thinks it's ok to punish thought, or punish without cause. I'm serious, I'd much sooner kill some ignorant soccer mom trying to ban a book she personally doesn't know or like, than someone that steals to feed their family.

PLEASE, there is NO REWARD for most stupid person on the planet, please everyone, quit competing for the position.

 

[CaptnKirk]

So these guys got 18 years in prison for trying to leave the US, and only got to China ?

So whats the sentence for leaving LA and trying to get to Las Vegas - and only making it to Needles ?

It's now Illegal to want to leave ? they didn't get to a place that they could have even have become a threat.
And if they had really gotten there, what's their life expectancy ? Fifteen hours on the food alone.

 

[Witling]

Miguel, you've got it seriously wrong about how the American (and most civilized) justice system works. No crime, no punishment.

Why don't they just slap the cuffs on me when I go in a restaurant? Maybe I won't pay.

Why not lock me up when I get a hotel room? Miguel, what do we do, arrest ever 75th guy who buys a gun because he might commit a crime?

And I repeat. You've got to be incredibly indescrete to get caught for conspiracy to join Taliban.

 

[Corn]

Consipracy to commit illegal acts is, well, illegal. Always has been, always will be. Depending upon the severity of the intended act depends upon whether or not ultimately faces a criminal conspiracy charge.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: Corn
Consipracy to commit illegal acts is, well, illegal. Always has been, always will be. Depending upon the severity of the intended act depends upon whether or not ultimately faces a criminal conspiracy charge.

Don't confuse them with the facts Corn. By their reasoning . . . well I don't know what their reasoning is. Just don't confuse them with the facts.

PLEASE, there is NO REWARD for most stupid person on the planet, please everyone, quit competing for the position.

In other words you're declaring yourself the winner and are begging these other 'tards not to knock you off your throne.

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: Corn
Consipracy to commit illegal acts is, well, illegal. Always has been, always will be. Depending upon the severity of the intended act depends upon whether or not ultimately faces a criminal conspiracy charge.

If I were again deployed in a foreign land and a fellow American here conveys harmful intent to interfere with the execution of my duty, then hopefully our government locks the SOB up and throws away the fvcking key. Sorry folks, there ain't no pity in the city. Enough said.

 

[Witling]

"Conspiracy" is bvllshit to leverage planning into jail. In California, you can have a felony conviction for conspiracy to commit a misdeamenor. Twitly & Nitly, the two guys who got convicted, had the misfortune to talk to Snitchly. Otherwise they wouldn't be in jail.

I mean, can you imagine the scene. Two guys try to purchase a ticket to Afghanistan. Snitchly comes up and says, "Gee, I'm going there too. What are you guys gonna do?" Eighteen years in jail!

 

[PrinceofWands]

Having served in the military myself, I understand your immediate reactions...HOWEVER, you are not instantly RIGHT because you're an American. We are capable of bad actions and atrocities the same as any other global power. What makes us different is that our citizens can effectively change those policies and prevent further damage. THAT is our strength, our greatness as a nation...it is NOT our patriotism, but our DISSENTION that makes us Americans.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with arresting someone on evidence, and giving them a fair trial where, if it's PROVEN that they had intentions of commiting illegal acts, they be punished accordingly. It's just getting very tough to reach that level of proof anymore. I'm fine sacrificing a little government provided safety to receive freedoms in return.

 

[Witling]

Well, Prince, I agree with you. You can define the crime and if you can prove the elements of that crime, then you should get a conviction.

My point is, you're not dealing with Einstein and Newton here.

 

[Pepsei]

IF that's really what they really wanted to do and they're American citizens, isn't that treason?

 

[Witling]

It depends on when the wanted to do it. It wasn't a crime to use the word "Taliban" in a sentence until the hysteria after 9/11.

 

[myusername]

Originally posted by: miguel
Whit,

Do you realize that you can go into a music store and fill your pockets with CDs and they can't arrest you until you try and leave the store? That's utterly ridiculous!

Actually this is incorrect. If you place an item in a bag or pocket you can be arrested for "theft by concealment".

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: miguel
Whit,

You can't seriously be advocating waiting for them to actually pick up a rifle and fire a shot are you? At what point do you stop crimes from being committed?

Do you realize that you can go into a music store and fill your pockets with CDs and they can't arrest you until you try and leave the store? That's utterly ridiculous!

You prevent crimes by watching out for yourself and those closest to you, but you NEVER EVER stop a crime before it's commited, because it is NOT a crime at that point, just a thought, an idea. What's ridiculous is someone that thinks it's ok to attempt to squash thought, ideas. Did you see minority report? It didn't go near far enough into the theory and realities of trying to intervene in what hasn't occured yet. You think I should be arrested if I put a cd in my pocket to take it up to the counter because my hands are full?

I'd rather wed my daughter to the worst rapist sitting in federal prison, than someone like you that thinks it's ok to punish thought, or punish without cause. I'm serious, I'd much sooner kill some ignorant soccer mom trying to ban a book she personally doesn't know or like, than someone that steals to feed their family.

PLEASE, there is NO REWARD for most stupid person on the planet, please everyone, quit competing for the position.

Let me get this straight: If I am planning on killing someone, I have not committed a crime? What about conspiracy to commit X? Are you saying that's not a valid charge? Geez, the insanity of some people just drives me nutz!

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: Whitling
Miguel, you've got it seriously wrong about how the American (and most civilized) justice system works. No crime, no punishment.

Why don't they just slap the cuffs on me when I go in a restaurant? Maybe I won't pay.

Why not lock me up when I get a hotel room? Miguel, what do we do, arrest ever 75th guy who buys a gun because he might commit a crime?

And I repeat. You've got to be incredibly indescrete to get caught for conspiracy to join Taliban.

See my previous post. "Conspiracy to commit whatever" is a crime. Gee, I wonder how the Secret Service protects the president? They actually have to catch the bullets in mid-air. WTF are you going on about?

 

[Witling]

Well, Miguel, the Secret Service doesn't protect the President by going out, rounding up, and arresting all the suspects. They impose security measures, they don't arrest people before the crime. Earth to Miguel, Earth to Miguel. Am I coming through?

This statement of yours is one place we agree. "Geez, the insanity of some people just drives me nutz! "

Miguel, leave your turkey out tonight. Let it get to room temperature for about six hours. It makes it taste better.

 

[miguel]

Whit, if you were plotting to kill the president, the SS would arrest you before you committed the crime. What's so hard about that concept? I like writing with you, but your comments such as

They impose security measures, they don't arrest people before the crime. Earth to Miguel, Earth to Miguel. Am I coming through?

make we wonder if you are a 12 year old or a looney 80 year old...

 

[Witling]

I'm a Looney 80 year old. Are you suggesting that my posts might be more effective without the insults? BTW, did you get the turkey out of the refrigerator yet?

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: Whitling
I'm a Looney 80 year old. Are you suggesting that my posts might be more effective without the insults? BTW, did you get the turkey out of the refrigerator yet?

Yes and no. My turkey is being served to me this year (we are poor this year. )

Do you want to me to research criminal conspiracy laws for you?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: miguel
Whit,

You can't seriously be advocating waiting for them to actually pick up a rifle and fire a shot are you? At what point do you stop crimes from being committed?

Do you realize that you can go into a music store and fill your pockets with CDs and they can't arrest you until you try and leave the store? That's utterly ridiculous!

You prevent crimes by watching out for yourself and those closest to you, but you NEVER EVER stop a crime before it's commited, because it is NOT a crime at that point, just a thought, an idea. What's ridiculous is someone that thinks it's ok to attempt to squash thought, ideas. Did you see minority report? It didn't go near far enough into the theory and realities of trying to intervene in what hasn't occured yet. You think I should be arrested if I put a cd in my pocket to take it up to the counter because my hands are full?

I'd rather wed my daughter to the worst rapist sitting in federal prison, than someone like you that thinks it's ok to punish thought, or punish without cause. I'm serious, I'd much sooner kill some ignorant soccer mom trying to ban a book she personally doesn't know or like, than someone that steals to feed their family.

PLEASE, there is NO REWARD for most stupid person on the planet, please everyone, quit competing for the position.

Let me get this straight: If I am planning on killing someone, I have not committed a crime? What about conspiracy to commit X? Are you saying that's not a valid charge? Geez, the insanity of some people just drives me nutz!

Well, yes and no. Actually planning to carry out a specific crime, is conspiracy to commit x, when that is a valid local, state or federal charge. Having the thought of doing something, considering it, those are not crimes. Furthermore, joining a terrorist organization isn't any REAL crime that I can think of, because it's declaring no specific intent of a specific crime. For instance, joining greenpeace doesn't make you guilty of conspiracy to interfeare with the lawful operation of a vessel, or transportation through-ways. When you actually dangle yourself off a bridge, or cut a fuel line, THEN you're guilty of a crime. The same applies to this sort of thing I believe. If some post McCartheist has actually declared it a crime to belong to a group, any group, then the real crime is that that post McCartheist was allowed to attack the constitution so blatently.

I'm a member of a NUMBER of anti-government groups, but am guilty of no crime because there is no specific intent of a crime, merely the training and preparation in CASE it is someday necessary, coupled with information campaigns, etc. Militia's, protesters, political activists, awareness and watchdog groups...these are all infinitely legal and responsible groups in theory. Any specific activities carried out are the faults of the individuals. That's how I see it anyway. A group is just a gathering of people with similar thoughts. It is an idea, and no idea can be controlled, stopped, or criminal in it's inception, even ones we find morally reprehensible.

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

I'm a member of a NUMBER of anti-government groups, but am guilty of no crime because there is no specific intent of a crime, merely the training and preparation in CASE it is someday necessary, coupled with information campaigns, etc. Militia's, protesters, political activists, awareness and watchdog groups...these are all infinitely legal and responsible groups in theory. Any specific activities carried out are the faults of the individuals. That's how I see it anyway. A group is just a gathering of people with similar thoughts. It is an idea, and no idea can be controlled, stopped, or criminal in it's inception, even ones we find morally reprehensible.

If you or anyone else are planning to commit a crime, you are guilty of conspiracy to commit a crime. Period.