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Two men jailed for possession of caffeine and tylenol

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nehalem256 said:
How am I victimized by a guy having a bloody knife in his closet? But such a thing is highly suggestive of illicit activity.
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Thousands of knives are bloodied across America every hour in butcher shops, on docks cleaning fish, and by hunters carving up their kills. Do all those bloody knives really suggest illicit activity to you?

If you are talking about knives stained with human blood used in assaults and murders, then you are talking about real crimes that occurred with real victims. How does money and caffeine suggest the commission of an actual crime? Who's the victim?

Just like carrying a suitcase of money across a border.

Just like carrying an insane amount of an otherwise OTC drug across a border.
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Uh, no. There's absolutely no comparison.
 
i thought this is more related to the laws of having a Precursor? that being and end means to increase product of another drug perhaps?
I mean you can legally buy lighter fluid..etc but when you have all that which is a known precursor in large quantities then its kinda obvious. i know they watch for that stuff in regard to making meth...though this is to cut it but meh, same difference imo

then again, i wouldn't be stupid enough to ever possess 330 lb's of caffiene with the expectations of something positive comming out of it. So to heck with legal details, jail em for being stupid i say.
 
Juror No. 8 said:
Thousands of knives are bloodied across America every hour in butcher shops, on docks cleaning fish, and by hunters carving up their kills. Do all those bloody knives really suggest illicit activity to you?

If you are talking about knives stained with human blood used in assaults and murders, then you are talking about real crimes that occurred with real victims. How does money and caffeine suggest the commission of an actual crime? Who's the victim?
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from the original article captioning the picture of crushed drugs blended together
Cutting agent: Lewinson was caught returned to Dover with 330lbs of crushed paracetamol and caffeine, blended together
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The only reasonable explanation for importing that amount of paracetamol/caffeine is for using it to cut heroin.

If you have another reasonable explanation please present it. Clearly the defense was not able to come up with such an explanation.
 
lol, well you gotta argue something when your life(style) is on the line. I'd return with something like, i'm gonna package them up in pill containers and sell them cheaper than the stores sell them for?
dunno if that is legal or not but gotta be a lesser sentence.
 
nehalem256 said:
The only reasonable explanation for importing that amount of paracetamol/caffeine is for using it to cut heroin.

If you have another reasonable explanation please present it. Clearly the defense was not able to come up with such an explanation.
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If someone creates, transports, or simply uses heroin, how is that a real crime? Where is the victim? Who is the injured party?

Again, no victim, no crime. Because political crimes, or victimless crimes, aren't real crimes.
 
HeXen said:
lol, well you gotta argue something when your life(style) is on the line. I'd return with something like, i'm gonna package them up in pill containers and sell them cheaper than the stores sell them for?
dunno if that is legal or not but gotta be a lesser sentence.
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Would be illegal and about the same sentence.

I'm reluctant to use the word controlled substance becasue of the implications of that term in the US but neither of these substances are non-uncontrolled in both the US and the UK in those amounts.

These are poisons in any higher dosage and while paracetamol is the worse in the long run caffeine is very fast acting.

For paracetamol a high enough dosage will make you suffer from 5-20 days before you die and there is no way to stop it, it has to be one of the worst possible ways to die. For caffeine it's way faster but no less painful.
 
nehalem256 said:
from the original article captioning the picture of crushed drugs blended together


The only reasonable explanation for importing that amount of paracetamol/caffeine is for using it to cut heroin.

If you have another reasonable explanation please present it. Clearly the defense was not able to come up with such an explanation.
Click to expand...

I think that one reason people don't quite get this is because it isn't explicitly stated that having those quantities is in and of itself a crime. The obvious intended use is. Where is the line from legality to illegality crossed?

Perhaps they should pass laws/regulations concerning those precursors if they fully intend to clamp down on the precursors like they are doing here.
 
MovingTarget said:
I think that one reason people don't quite get this is because it isn't explicitly stated that having those quantities is in and of itself a crime. The obvious intended use is. Where is the line from legality to illegality crossed?

Perhaps they should pass laws/regulations concerning those precursors if they fully intend to clamp down on the precursors like they are doing here.
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Those aren't precursors, they are cutting agents if anything and are combined with fillers and heroin to produce a certain specific type of kick.

It's used to make brand name heroin that will eventually kill everyone who uses it for any longer amount of time, it's known to cause liver and brain damage.
 
MovingTarget said:
I think that one reason people don't quite get this is because it isn't explicitly stated that having those quantities is in and of itself a crime. The obvious intended use is. Where is the line from legality to illegality crossed?

Perhaps they should pass laws/regulations concerning those precursors if they fully intend to clamp down on the precursors like they are doing here.
Click to expand...

Having the equivalent of nearly a million pills clearly crosses that line
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
Those aren't precursors, they are cutting agents if anything and are combined with fillers and heroin to produce a certain specific type of kick.

It's used to make brand name heroin that will eventually kill everyone who uses it for any longer amount of time, it's known to cause liver and brain damage.
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Eh, I used the wrong word there. You are correct. My point still stands though. Where is the line drawn? That should be defined by statute.
 
MovingTarget said:
Eh, I used the wrong word there. You are correct. My point still stands though. Where is the line drawn? That should be defined by statute.
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I really wish you had spelled statute wrong, i had such a good joke...

But no, it's already controlled as it is, it's not neccessary.

I kinda like that stuff though, it kills it's users in a matter of months, it's known and people still want it.

Gotta love the suicidal brain of an addict. Of course, i am jesting, in reality i would want them all to give it up but since that isn't likely, this is a good solution, everyone is happy with it except those people who believe that human life has intrinsic value, i am not one of them.
 
Basically, this is no different than finding a ton of nitrix oxide based fertilizer, jars of gasoline, wire, timers, and blasting caps in a shed in someone's back yard. None of those items are illegal...but it should be obvious what was going to be done with them.
 
cybrsage said:
Basically, this is no different than finding a ton of nitrix oxide based fertilizer, jars of gasoline, wire, timers, and blasting caps in a shed in someone's back yard. None of those items are illegal...but it should be obvious what was going to be done with them.
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You got one part of that wrong.

To make ANFO you use diesel, not petrol, you need to let it dry out and if you use petrol most of the carbohydrogens will vanish into thin air, literally.

Now for a good setting, you'd use any blast cap or iodine and ammonia caps.

You would make a terrible explosives expert, i'm no explosives expert but i have a fair clue that in a blast off where we'd stand on top of each others devices i'd get my soles burnt while you would be in orbit.

This said, it is ONLY because of the knowledge of this particular flavor of heroin that will kill people that this conviction is possible, it's not a regular cutting agent (obviously or there would be no addicts).
 
It doesn't matter why someone has something.

However, if there is a law against importing a certain quantity of something, and they exceeded that, then it is an issue.
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
I really wish you had spelled statute wrong, i had such a good joke...

But no, it's already controlled as it is, it's not neccessary.

I kinda like that stuff though, it kills it's users in a matter of months, it's known and people still want it.

Gotta love the suicidal brain of an addict. Of course, i am jesting, in reality i would want them all to give it up but since that isn't likely, this is a good solution, everyone is happy with it except those people who believe that human life has intrinsic value, i am not one of them.
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You have no idea how close you came to getting your wish. I hit the nuke (post) button and immediately noticed that I had indeed spelled it wrong. A very quick edit saved me.
 
Welcome to retardoville. Public perception of illegal drugs has changed drastically over the past 20yrs. Yet the laws are still the same. How does this happen? Because your representation doesn't truly represent you. They represent corporations. These draconian drug laws cause paranoia and lead to arrests like this one. Drugs that by themselves cause no one any harm and is completely legal lands someone in jail for 8yrs. Whats that do to his family? Does he have children? This destructive overbearing government control needs to be reigned in but everyone still thinks their voting is going to change things. It hasn't, doesn't now and won't in the future. And yes I am aware this did not happen in the US, however if googled it wouldn't take long to find.
 
It's completely sick. This is why it's time for a revolution. We need to refresh public memory that acting like this gets you burned alive, then people will stop acting like that...at least for a while.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
 
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