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Two contractors allege getting stiffed for work on Trump’s D.C. hotel

I guess that's the Trump way of finishing under budget.
Trump has a long record of not paying or only partially paying some of the contractors and partners on his projects. Hundreds of small business owners and blue collar workers including painters, dishwashers, waiters, bathroom installers, chandelier sellers, curtain makers and lawyers have in the past accused Trump’s businesses of leaving them with unpaid bills at times.
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Also include the little girls group that performed at one of his rallys
 
This isn't the way constructions projects work. Trump doesn't decide if contractors get paid or not, the general contractor pays the subcontractors (which is what these companies are) and the architect pays the general. None of these companies that are filing liens had a contract with Trump.

Generally in order to turn the building over to the owner after the project is finished the contractor is required to provide lien releases from itself and its subs. Contractors sign lien releases when they complete all contractual requirements and receive final payment. It appears that the building has been turned over to Trump so it's rather odd that the general wasn't required to turn over all of the lien releases but on a project that large there can be subs working for subs working for subs and often the general contractor isn't aware that their sub hired another sub to do some or all of the work.

Just to be very clear, Trump doesn't owe these companies any money. The contractor those companies had contracts with are the ones that owe them money, be it the general contractor or one of the GCs subcontractors and filing a lien against the building is the first step in recovering their money. Even material suppliers can file a lien if they aren't paid by a subcontractor, on some projects we have to get lien releases from all of our suppliers down to the guys we buy screws from. As a matter of fact, I would be very surprised if Trump or whatever entity actually owns the building doesn't sue the architect and general contractor (or construction management company) as it's their contractual requirement to ensure that everyone gets paid.

Found this in the article:

An attorney for A&D Construction, Richard M. Sissman, said the firm was a Hispanic-owned construction company that had no contract or relationship with the Trump Organization directly but rather with another contractor on the project. “We did not contract directly with Trump,” Sissman said.
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I do find it odd that one contractor says he is owed almost 3 million. You don't get a contract, do all of the work and then get your entire contract amount in one lump sum. You get monthly payments as you do the work, so if 20% of your contract is done you bill and get paid for 20%, minus either a 5% or 10% retainage which is held until the scope of your contract is substantially complete. Usually if the contractor gets very behind on your payments you stop work long before they owe you a huge sum of money but maybe this was a very large contract and $3M was their final payment and/or retainage.


Disclaimer: Not a Trump supporter.
 
Darwin333 said:
This isn't the way constructions projects work. Trump doesn't decide if contractors get paid or not, the general contractor pays the subcontractors (which is what these companies are) and the architect pays the general. None of these companies that are filing liens had a contract with Trump.

Generally in order to turn the building over to the owner after the project is finished the contractor is required to provide lien releases from itself and its subs. Contractors sign lien releases when they complete all contractual requirements and receive final payment. It appears that the building has been turned over to Trump so it's rather odd that the general wasn't required to turn over all of the lien releases but on a project that large there can be subs working for subs working for subs and often the general contractor isn't aware that their sub hired another sub to do some or all of the work.

Just to be very clear, Trump doesn't owe these companies any money. The contractor those companies had contracts with are the ones that owe them money, be it the general contractor or one of the GCs subcontractors and filing a lien against the building is the first step in recovering their money. Even material suppliers can file a lien if they aren't paid by a subcontractor, on some projects we have to get lien releases from all of our suppliers down to the guys we buy screws from. As a matter of fact, I would be very surprised if Trump or whatever entity actually owns the building doesn't sue the architect and general contractor (or construction management company) as it's their contractual requirement to ensure that everyone gets paid.

Found this in the article:



I do find it odd that one contractor says he is owed almost 3 million. You don't get a contract, do all of the work and then get your entire contract amount in one lump sum. You get monthly payments as you do the work, so if 20% of your contract is done you bill and get paid for 20%, minus either a 5% or 10% retainage which is held until the scope of your contract is substantially complete. Usually if the contractor gets very behind on your payments you stop work long before they owe you a huge sum of money but maybe this was a very large contract and $3M was their final payment and/or retainage.


Disclaimer: Not a Trump supporter.
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So like, is that the end of this thread?
 
Darwin333 said:
This isn't the way constructions projects work. Trump doesn't decide if contractors get paid or not, the general contractor pays the subcontractors (which is what these companies are) and the architect pays the general. None of these companies that are filing liens had a contract with Trump.

Generally in order to turn the building over to the owner after the project is finished the contractor is required to provide lien releases from itself and its subs. Contractors sign lien releases when they complete all contractual requirements and receive final payment. It appears that the building has been turned over to Trump so it's rather odd that the general wasn't required to turn over all of the lien releases but on a project that large there can be subs working for subs working for subs and often the general contractor isn't aware that their sub hired another sub to do some or all of the work.

Just to be very clear, Trump doesn't owe these companies any money. The contractor those companies had contracts with are the ones that owe them money, be it the general contractor or one of the GCs subcontractors and filing a lien against the building is the first step in recovering their money. Even material suppliers can file a lien if they aren't paid by a subcontractor, on some projects we have to get lien releases from all of our suppliers down to the guys we buy screws from. As a matter of fact, I would be very surprised if Trump or whatever entity actually owns the building doesn't sue the architect and general contractor (or construction management company) as it's their contractual requirement to ensure that everyone gets paid.

Found this in the article:



I do find it odd that one contractor says he is owed almost 3 million. You don't get a contract, do all of the work and then get your entire contract amount in one lump sum. You get monthly payments as you do the work, so if 20% of your contract is done you bill and get paid for 20%, minus either a 5% or 10% retainage which is held until the scope of your contract is substantially complete. Usually if the contractor gets very behind on your payments you stop work long before they owe you a huge sum of money but maybe this was a very large contract and $3M was their final payment and/or retainage.


Disclaimer: Not a Trump supporter.
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i think you missed part of the article, they stated that most of the contract was paid and that the $3M was the "final money". the guy even voted for Trump, oh the irony.

"John D. Magnolia, the company’s president, said in an interview that the Trump family had paid for most of his work on the project and that he voted for Trump in November. But when the final money did not arrive and criticism grew over the president-elect’s continued ownership of the project as he prepares to enter office, Magnolia said he worried ownership would change before the Trumps paid fully."
 
alien42 said:
i think you missed part of the article, they stated that most of the contract was paid and that the $3M was the "final money". the guy even voted for Trump, oh the irony.

"John D. Magnolia, the company’s president, said in an interview that the Trump family had paid for most of his work on the project and that he voted for Trump in November. But when the final money did not arrive and criticism grew over the president-elect’s continued ownership of the project as he prepares to enter office, Magnolia said he worried ownership would change before the Trumps paid fully."
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Filing a lien against the building is standard practice in construction when a contractor isn't paid. What part about "An attorney for A&D Construction, Richard M. Sissman, said the firm was a Hispanic-owned construction company that had no contract or relationship with the Trump Organization directly but rather with another contractor on the project. “We did not contract directly with Trump,” Sissman said." don't you understand?

I've worked on hundreds of large construction projects and have been involved with thousands and I have never in my life heard of an owner of a new construction project contracting directly with each individual contractor. They hire an architect, an architect and the owner enter into a contract with a general contractor with the architect acting as the owner's agent and the general contractor enters into contracts with subcontractors. So again, Trump doesn't owe them a dime because he has no contract with them. If this was the general contractor it would be a different story but I've read nothing that says the GC wasn't paid.

Not to mention that there are various reasons that retainage, what I am assuming they are referring to as "final money" is withheld and not paid and when it isn't paid it's often disputed. I've had retainage withheld to cover the cost of my crews using the site dumpster even though it was clearly in the contract that the GC would cover dumpster costs. I had to fight to get that money back. Other times I was charged for site cleanup because my crew didn't do a good enough job when they left the site, in that case it was legit. I've seen other companies have all of their retainage withheld because of faulty work that had to be fixed by another company. Without knowing details it's impossible to come to any sort of conclusion. I have seen a lot of Generals try to make up losses or pad their pockets by going after retainage but it is always of their own accord and not the owners. It's not like the General Contractor is going to give the owner a refund on their contract because they squeezed their subcontractors a bit, just not the way it works bud.

The reason you want to lien it before it changes hands is because until the lien is lifted it can not be sold. It forces the owner to get involved with the General Contractor, who has a hell of a lot more sway, to resolve the problem and can even get the owner to pay them directly despite not having a contractual obligation to do so. The owner then goes after the General Contractor to recover the funds.

Here is a court case that is an example of the GC screwing the subcontractors and the owner paying them directly and going after the GC. You will see that it was no fault of the owner that the subs got screwed.

http://www.tdcaa.com/journal/general-contractor-gets-three-year-sentence-false-statement
 
Darwin333 said:
What part about "An attorney for A&D Construction, Richard M. Sissman, said the firm was a Hispanic-owned construction company that had no contract or relationship with the Trump Organization directly but rather with another contractor on the project. “We did not contract directly with Trump,” Sissman said." don't you understand?
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you seem to be confused, i said nothing about that person or contract, i only mentioned the Magnolia contract.

i simply clarified your confusion regarding the Magnolia contract and you're welcome.
 
alien42 said:
you seem to be confused, i said nothing about that person or contract, i only mentioned the Magnolia contract.

i simply clarified your confusion regarding the Magnolia contract and you're welcome.
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And I am trying to educate you as to why there is almost a 0% chance that Magnolia had a contract directly with Trump as they are a subcontractor and not the prime contractor. That would probably be why they also named the construction manager (General Contractor) in the responsible parties. I do this for a living and have for well over a decade, I am not the one confused. So now, you are welcome. Or you can continue on with your willful ignorance if that's what you see fit to do, up to you.

I'll bet you $100 that they have a contract with the construction manager or another contractor and not Trump. We can put it in escrow and everything, how about it?

Disclaimer: Still not a Trump supporter.
 
Darwin333 said:
And I am trying to educate you as to why there is almost a 0% chance that Magnolia had a contract directly with Trump as they are a subcontractor and not the prime contractor. That would probably be why they also named the construction manager (General Contractor) in the responsible parties. I do this for a living and have for well over a decade, I am not the one confused. So now, you are welcome. Or you can continue on with your willful ignorance if that's what you see fit to do, up to you.

I'll bet you $100 that they have a contract with the construction manager or another contractor and not Trump. We can put it in escrow and everything, how about it?
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wow, i never disputed your knowledge or experience in the industry, i simply pointed out that you missed part of the article because of this statement...

"I do find it odd that one contractor says he is owed almost 3 million. You don't get a contract, do all of the work and then get your entire contract amount in one lump sum. You get monthly payments as you do the work, so if 20% of your contract is done you bill and get paid for 20%, minus either a 5% or 10% retainage which is held until the scope of your contract is substantially complete. Usually if the contractor gets very behind on your payments you stop work long before they owe you a huge sum of money but maybe this was a very large contract and $3M was their final payment and/or retainage."

the article very clearly covered that, as i pointed out, and all i pointed out.

you seem to have a very fragile ego.
 
I'd like to add to Darwin's info that, as a sub, you only have 45 days from the point of substantial completion to place your lein. It's VERY common for shifty GC's to lead subs on with, 'payment is coming, just a bit late' and cause them to miss the lein window. Then you have virtually no recourse with teeth because the GC can keep you tied up for YEARS in legal proceedings.
Also, many places in north America don't have a taboo view of leins, they're simply standard procedure.
I've placed 2 leins for 6 figs in the last year and a half, and they NEVER go to the owner unless they're also the GC.
 
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