Twin Turbocharging the 3.8

[TehMac]

The money and time of banging in a new set of headers isn't worth it at this point. On a motor that was only rated at 150 HP or so from the factory there's no chance a set of long tubes is gonna net 50.

Power costs money, it's been the name of the game for a long time, particularly if you want it to live longer than a trip down the driveway.

Not to be pedantic, but you're thinking of the 3.8 Essex in the '90's.

The 1999 Mustang V6 with aluminum heads and sequential fuel injection was rated at 190 hp from the factory. The modifications and chip tuning the previous owner probably bumped that up to 250. My guess is that it's around 200 brake right now because I need to get the damned thing tuned.

I did some more reading about that turbo kit and it looks like it was designed for non-ABS Mustangs. Plus the cost is a little too much for what I was thinking so I'll probably just leave the thing as is, and maybe buy a project car down the line.

 

[speedy2]

How is the suspension and brakes on a V6 stang anyway? I'd want to at least upgrade the brakes if I was slapping turbos on the car. Going fast is fun, but being able to stop is good too. Not to mention the suspension being up the the task of actually putting the power to the ground.

 

[TehMac]

How is the suspension and brakes on a V6 stang anyway? I'd want to at least upgrade the brakes if I was slapping turbos on the car. Going fast is fun, but being able to stop is good too. Not to mention the suspension being up the the task of actually putting the power to the ground.

Well stock, it's better than other compacts that cost less than it, but that isn't saying much.

I made a thread detailing plans for shocks and so forth, and exdeath laid out all the stuff I had to do to it and yea...it's very confusing, and a lot to do.

Previous owner put on Steeda Sport Springs in the rear, and they make a big difference right there. I also have new Steeda control arms in the rear. I have gotten use to the firmness by now, but when I stepped back into the car, it was much firmer and I got a little firmer too. :awe:

 

[TwinsenTacquito]

I think a twin turbo V6 would still be lighter than a V8 I'd drop in.

No, stop thinking this. I have a friend that's thinking about dropping an LS into a 90's non turbo 3.0L 300zx. The v8 is smaller and lighter than the v6. Push freaking rods.

These are ford engines, but whatever, I keep it to show people how stupid new engines are. And to shut down Honda guys that talk about how their engine makes a ton of peak HP per liter, even though their 2.2 liter is bigger than my 5.7.

The one on the left is a 4.6 liter, the one on the right is a 5.0.

 

[TehMac]

No, stop thinking this. I have a friend that's thinking about dropping an LS into a 90's non turbo 3.0L 300zx. The v8 is smaller and lighter than the v6. Push freaking rods.

These are ford engines, but whatever, I keep it to show people how stupid new engines are. And to shut down Honda guys that talk about how their engine makes a ton of peak HP per liter, even though their 2.2 liter is bigger than my 5.7.

The one on the left is a 4.6 liter, the one on the right is a 5.0.

Great point. Btw, I think you meant the "5.0" is a 302 cubic inch Windsor from the '60's.

And I was actually thinking of getting one of those out of a Lincoln in a scrapyard, stripping it down to the block and rebuilding it. Perhaps a project car one of these days...

 

[speedy2]

Yeah. Same with LS1 swap Miatas. Everyone that knows nothing about it will be the first to say, "But a V8 would be too heavy and make it drive like crap."

Ok genius, keep thinking that.

 

[TehMac]

Yeah. Same with LS1 swap Miatas. Everyone that knows nothing about it will be the first to say, "But a V8 would be too heavy and make it drive like crap."

Ok genius, keep thinking that.

Yea, there are a lot of transplant V8 miatas. Quite smart actually, makes me wonder why Mazda hasn't struck some sort of deal with GM.

 

[speedy2]

Yea, there are a lot of transplant V8 miatas. Quite smart actually, makes me wonder why Mazda hasn't struck some sort of deal with GM.

Yeah. I WILL own an LSX miata one day. I just love the idea. lol.

 

[v8envy]

v8 swaps do throw off the balance and tossability of miatas something fierce. Yes, the amount of weight added is roughly equivalent to a passenger (you ARE going to upgrade your transmission, rear end, suspension and brakes after tripling the horsepoewer and torque available, right?) The result is scary fast and still sticks to the road nicely, but doesn't feel like the original in the least.

A turbo actually makes more sense for a miata. The amount of weight added is minimal, power is fair and comes on after you hook up -- rather than the 300-400 ft-lb you get off idle with a v8.

As far as efficiency and drivability -- there's a very simple formula to remember. Air + fuel in = power out. My chipped and modded 87 Conquest (aka Starion) averaged 7.5 mpg out of a 4 cylinder. Part of that was me being unable to keep my foot out of the turbo and the 4.30 rear end gearing. But the other part was the engine being convinced it was a ~7 liter. That was a scary fast car, but utterly impractical, uncomfortable and with a suspension awful enough that I had it on two wheels around corners a few times.

Compare that to the 25 or so MPG your usual 6 speed 5.7l camaro delivers.

 

[alkemyst]

Most of the miatas I have read about with an LS1 swap are still within 1-2% front to rear balance of stock.

 

[exdeath]

I understood headers provide maybe 50 horsepower or so if they're performance type, especially for V6/V8 engines.

Lol no. They don't even make that much on a V8. A 50+ HP gain attributed to a single mod on a N/A engine is heads/cam(s)/stroker territory. Headers mostly move your power band around and work to support heads/cam(s). Biggest gain you'll see from an exhaust is the mid pipe, trading in the stock 4-6 cat pipe for 2 high flow cats.

Everything is a system. Mods work together. Intakes for example don't make power, they can only hinder power that the engine is already capable of producing. Adding up 50 HP for intake, 50 HP for headers, 50 HP for mid pipe, 50 HP for catback and 50 HP for a throttle body and having 450 HP out of your V6 is ricer math. If that engine can only inhale 190 HP worth of air unrestricted, that bigger throttle body is going to add 0 horsepower and driveability problems. Also anything claiming dyno proven gains below 10 RWHP should be taken with a grain of salt, as single digits aren't even within the realm of repeatability error and dyno accuracy.

 

[exdeath]

Well stock, it's better than other compacts that cost less than it, but that isn't saying much.

I made a thread detailing plans for shocks and so forth, and exdeath laid out all the stuff I had to do to it and yea...it's very confusing, and a lot to do.

Previous owner put on Steeda Sport Springs in the rear, and they make a big difference right there. I also have new Steeda control arms in the rear. I have gotten use to the firmness by now, but when I stepped back into the car, it was much firmer and I got a little firmer too. :awe:

If the previous owner put them on, how do you know there is a big difference?

 

[exdeath]

I did some more reading about that turbo kit and it looks like it was designed for non-ABS Mustangs. Plus the cost is a little too much for what I was thinking so I'll probably just leave the thing as is, and maybe buy a project car down the line.

If $3500 for a turbo kit is too much, you might want to reconsider modding. Serious power means $50 a week on gas and $300 per tire every <= 12 months and a cash reserve for the inevitable shit that breaks. You did think about tires right? Nothing sucks more than doing a burnout in the middle of an intersection while the ricer who revved at you with 1/8 the power is 2 cars ahead.

 

[Toastedlightly]

v8 swaps do throw off the balance and tossability of miatas something fierce. Yes, the amount of weight added is roughly equivalent to a passenger (you ARE going to upgrade your transmission, rear end, suspension and brakes after tripling the horsepoewer and torque available, right?) The result is scary fast and still sticks to the road nicely, but doesn't feel like the original in the least.

A turbo actually makes more sense for a miata. The amount of weight added is minimal, power is fair and comes on after you hook up -- rather than the 300-400 ft-lb you get off idle with a v8.

As far as efficiency and drivability -- there's a very simple formula to remember. Air + fuel in = power out. My chipped and modded 87 Conquest (aka Starion) averaged 7.5 mpg out of a 4 cylinder. Part of that was me being unable to keep my foot out of the turbo and the 4.30 rear end gearing. But the other part was the engine being convinced it was a ~7 liter. That was a scary fast car, but utterly impractical, uncomfortable and with a suspension awful enough that I had it on two wheels around corners a few times.

Compare that to the 25 or so MPG your usual 6 speed 5.7l camaro delivers.

I'm still convinced that the aluminum v8 miata is the way to go. The realizable power is much, much more (and far more tame). The weight gain isn't very high (I don't even think it is 150 lbs over a turbo setup, but I don't have anything to back that up)

 

[TehMac]

Also anything claiming dyno proven gains below 10 RWHP should be taken with a grain of salt, as single digits aren't even within the realm of repeatability error and dyno accuracy.

Yea, I knew that bit.