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tweaktown review GTX660Ti

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railven

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
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MrK6 said:
:confused: You'd have two copies of BL2 and be out fifty dollars (-$50, or $25 a copy). Considering the game has been on sale for $37, that's a lot of work to save $12.
Click to expand...

I'd easily sell two GTX 660 Tis since I have nvidia friends who'd buy anything green (and don't really follow the bundles.) They'd probably think I was giving them a deal $275.

I also need two copies of BL2, so either way I look at it I'd be dishing out for the game whatever sale price/deals is going. $12x2 == $24, I still make profit :D
 
3

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
MTDEW said:
Ok, i've got my flame suit on, so here goes. :biggrin:
Feel free to flip RED and GREEN if you want, if it makes you feel better.

REVIEW: "Hey, check out this shiny new GREEN card, it favors very well against its competitors RED card."
CUSTOMER: "I can see that, I want one!"
REVIEW: "Now wait, If you have a bit more $$$ in your budget, you can get an overclokced version of the GREEN card and get more bang for your buck."
CUSTOMER: "I can see that too, but what happens if you overclock that RED card you mentioned like you did the GREEN one?"
REVIEW: "Who cares? I'm not here to sell RED cards today, I'm trying to sell you one of these GREEN cards."
CUSTOMER: "Oh, i see, i thought you were just trying to help me make a decision on which one i should choose."
REVIEW: "Well, i'm sorry, i dont have time to waste helping you make up your mind, I'm trying to sell cards here!"

We're not stupid, we understand why there are 3 overclocked versions of the 660ti in the AT review, it is to help sell cards.
And there is nothing wrong with that, business is business and we all make a living somehow.

But somewhere along the line, reviews became more about just selling the latest hardware and less about helping consumers make informed choices.
That sucks.
It would be nice to see reviews help sell cards AND help the customer make a choice of what best fits his/her needs and budget.
Click to expand...

+1

Yes. We know there has to be a symbiotic relationship between the review press and the manufacturers. The problem arises when the review sites feel more beholden to the manufacturers than the readers.

I believe that the manufacturers need to realize, and some sites need to remember, they are dealing with a free press who's reason for existence is to give a fair and balanced account to the public. If they are going to be in coalition with the suppliers to sell us stuff then they need to put "Advertisement" on the top of the pages of a review. Reviews are supposed to be unsolicited and unbiased.

I think it's perfectly fair to request when a site reviews your product they show off it's capabilities. If it's good at tessellation, show that. If it's good at Direct Compute and OpenCL, definitely demonstrate that. That doesn't mean you use a benchmark though that the competing manufacturer hasn't even looked at yet, and wouldn't have been able to optimize their drivers for. Or, add a game to the review suite on a moments notice because the card manufacturer wants it to be. Or remove/change a benchmark because it will show the products weaknesses. Or report when a product is running way out of spec. That's unfair. Imagine if TechPowerUp changed the settings or benchmarks run for one review. It would undermine their entire data base. It's fine to have highest playable settings, but you also need apples to apples. That setting shouldn't change though from review to review. It should be able to be updated, obviously, but that shouldn't be used as a license for abuse.

Products should be put through a rigorous and complete examination of their performance and overall quality. If samples show up with loose heat sinks or 1300w PSU's with 18AWG power cords, report it. If there is screen tearing in surround/Eyefinity, report it. Report it to the supplier first. Find out what, if anything, they are going to do to rectify it. Or if there was something you needed to do (active DP adapter, for instance) and report that as well. You aren't out to torpedo the manufacturers by releasing info that might be atypical of their product. One off's do occur. These are not hand built items, after all. What will separate one site from the others is how thorough and unbiased they are. They should always strive to be the best at those two criteria. (It also doesn't hurt to employ writers who have an interesting writing style ;))

Anyway, I'm sure that AT and other sites are aware of this (but we still see it happen :(). They also need to be aware that they can be perceived as biased even though they aren't. When this happens it's because the site isn't being transparent enough and people are drawing the wrong conclusions. Every reader's opinion is important. It's better to address concerns than to ignore them simply because you know they have no basis in facts. Understand, it does appear that sites are catering to the manufacturers in an unfair way. We've given examples. Reviewers can act like this as an insult to their integrity, they can choose to ignore it, but it's not going to change the fact people are going to question their credibility. Which for them is a bad thing. It's not bad for me. I'm not out here in the public trying to sell myself on the internet. I'll find some who I think are reliable and read their reviews (and remove my adblock).
 
SirPauly

SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
5,187
1
0
How some define "fair and balanced" may differ though!

I'm not a fan of "should of's" and individuals that speak as we --- I think bias may be in eye of the beholder and how they perceive based on subjective tastes and tolerance, important reasons for the individual to buy a product.

It's simple for me: Official information, third party reviews, and sharing of first hand investigations with gamers that have consistency over the years. I don't expect perfection or idealism out of any of this and a lot of good still offered over-all.
 
ViRGE

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
3DVagabond said:
This is called flamebait. It's vulgar and totally classless. Get a clue and try to join discussions rather than devolve them.
Click to expand...
If you guys aren't going to talk about the price drop itself, stop talking altogether.

-ViRGE
 
blastingcap

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
Fanboyism aside, I think we can all agree on this:

Lower prices on the same performance = good for consumers.

Even if you prefer NV cards, this may pressure NV into dropping prices on NV cards, allowing you to get NV cards for cheaper, too! :)
 
Zanovar

Zanovar

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2011
3,446
232
106
3DVagabond said:
This is called flamebait. It's vulgar and totally classless. Get a clue and try to join discussions rather than devolve them.
Click to expand...

To be fair i think it was tongue in cheek,price drops are always good:thumbsup:.
 
ShintaiDK

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
146
106
chimaxi83 said:
You should try to keep your fanboyism a little more subtle, bro :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

3DVagabond said:
This is called flamebait. It's vulgar and totally classless. Get a clue and try to join discussions rather than devolve them.
Click to expand...

When looking at Steam numbers. It seems GTX670/680 is more popular than the entire HD7xxx line. Like it or not.

Whats your conclusion? AMD lowers prices for feeling generous? Its what now, their 4-5th pricecut after the first GTX680 release?
 
AnandThenMan

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,991
627
126
ShintaiDK said:
No surprise there when they dont sell much.
Click to expand...
Stop trolling please.
SirPauly said:
How some define "fair and balanced" may differ though!

I'm not a fan of "should of's" and individuals that speak as we --- I think bias may be in eye of the beholder and how they perceive based on subjective tastes and tolerance, important reasons for the individual to buy a product.

It's simple for me: Official information, third party reviews, and sharing of first hand investigations with gamers that have consistency over the years. I don't expect perfection or idealism out of any of this and a lot of good still offered over-all.
Click to expand...
Does anyone have any idea what is being said here? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I honestly have no idea.
 
3

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
Zanovar said:
To be fair i think it was tongue in cheek,price drops are always good:thumbsup:.
Click to expand...

Anyway, yeah hurray price drops. ;) This should bring selling prices down a bit more. Possibly making $300 the go to price for 7950. $200 for the 7850?
 
3

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
ShintaiDK said:
When looking at Steam numbers. It seems GTX670/680 is more popular than the entire HD7xxx line. Like it or not.

Whats your conclusion? AMD lowers prices for feeling generous? Its what now, their 4-5th pricecut after the first GTX680 release?
Click to expand...

I've told you what I think. Let's stop there.
 
SirPauly

SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
5,187
1
0
AnandThenMan said:
Stop trolling please.

Does anyone have any idea what is being said here? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I honestly have no idea.
Click to expand...

You have views offering this:

I believe that the manufacturers need to realize, and some sites need to remember, they are dealing with a free press who's reason for existence is to give a fair and balanced account to the public.
Click to expand...

Fair and balanced may be defined differently.

We need the sites to cut through the marketing and give us the straight scoop.
Click to expand...

We're not stupid, we understand why there are 3 overclocked versions of the 660ti in the AT review, it is to help sell cards.
Click to expand...

What is this we? It's a subjective view and opinion spoken from an individual and yet they offer we the gamer -- like their voice is for the gamer itself. I read this a lot.

Then there is the developer should do this and should do that -- the IHV should do this and should do that -- the reviewer should do this and should do that -- hehe, for an individual that usually speaks in we.

Bias, in many cases is in the eye of the beholder - their preference, choice is not being offered in a fair and balanced way - according to them -- so it must be agenda and bias.

Because the individual that speaks in we can't be off a bit.

What part of "If you guys aren't going to talk about the price drop itself, stop talking altogether" was not clear? This nonsense needs to stop. It's the internet, you're both wrong.
-ViRGE
 
Last edited by a moderator:
railven

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
126
blastingcap said:
Fanboyism aside, I think we can all agree on this:

Lower prices on the same performance = good for consumers.

Even if you prefer NV cards, this may pressure NV into dropping prices on NV cards, allowing you to get NV cards for cheaper, too! :)
Click to expand...

Anyone who doesn't welcome a price cut isn't a consumer. When the market gets hot, the prices start to melt!

Early adopters be damned, the market is ripe for the pickings!
 
SirPauly

SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
5,187
1
0
It's nice to see AMD garner some discrete desktop share -- hopefully with added value perks they can garner additional share. Ideally, would like to see it 50/50 so companies can fight to improve performance/value and innovation, so their potential customers may see improved gaming experience potential.
 
SirPauly

SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
5,187
1
0
What part of "If you guys aren't going to talk about the price drop itself, stop talking altogether" was not clear? This nonsense needs to stop. It's the internet, you're both wrong.
-ViRGE
Click to expand...

Can you expand why the posters in this thread only have to talk about the price drop itself in this thread?
 
AnandThenMan

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,991
627
126
SirPauly said:
Can you expand why the posters in this thread only have to talk about the price drop itself in this thread?
Click to expand...
You really have been hitting the happy smoke. :sneaky: He means that people need to stick to the topics at hand and not get personal.
 
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