tweaktown review GTX660Ti

[SirPauly]

Exactly. And it's been like that since ages.

Perf/$ --> AMD

Examples:

There is only a single card in last 2 gen that Nvidia introduced with disruptive pricing, and it was GTX 460. It was a showstopper card. First Fermi needed a push, and that's why it was priced disruptively.
And although 3 months later AMD offered 6850, at lower price, with slightly better performance, HD6850 was utterly destroyed in sales by GTX460.

1) Notice extremely high 460 volumes/month and 4x bigger volume compared to 6850, despite the later just launched(!).

2) Notice 570 equaling the volume of 6970 + 6950.
Although later can be unlocked, and it is faster with maxed AA/resolution blablah... all the arguments that are pulled now to show 7950 is superior to 660 Ti.

It didn't work for AMD back then(fps @maxed settings argument),
so why does anyone think it will work now?

Thx to Grooveriding for Steam database snapshot

SKIP EVERYTHING ABOVE IF NOT INTERESTED IN MARKET/FINNACIALS
***************************************************************************

About NV "better support".
Just look at look at the 3 games TT tested - Mafia II, Just Cause 2 and Metro 2033.
AMD can't even render them with same effects like Nvidia.

So you see it's not entirely apples vs apples.
I am not going to list all the features and benefits of Nvidia, I'm sure most know them very well.

Same like current AMD generation offers added value via possible OC,
Nvidia's added value IMHO, is at least as tangible as AMD's.


It is almost entirely untrue that 660 Ti gets killed by AA/AF.

a) No modern card tanks with AF, not even with AF x16. FPS drop due to Anisotropic-filtering fps is extremely mild.
Nvidia even does trilinear by default in DX11, and it's perfectly fine, while OTOH AMD fiddles with filtering optimization every now and then.
So - NO. 660 Ti does not tank with AF.

b) Those TT AA/AF findings are with MAXED AA. Independently of arch., deferred engines tank with AA.
Particularly if its full-screen AA.
Not even 680/7970 are entirely playable at maxed settings.
So although it looks like 660 Ti tanks with maxed AA (as expected)
I have yet to see that it tanks with real-world amount of AA.

Performance of $300 GPU at maxed settings @2560 is certainly a part of the picture,
but anyone thinking that is a decisive part, is mistaken.
Because I am sure that there will be games where FSAA/TXAA will be the best solution - not MAXED MSAA,
therefore benefiting 660 Ti (FXAA), or entirely outclassing competition (TXAA)

The aspect I like about nVidia is their pro-active nature and oddly, is what some gamers complain about in this forum. nVidia's developer relations, flexibility of settings, features and support like 3d Vision, GPU Physics, willing to spend resources for their customer base, while trying to improve the gaming experience for their customers and continued by offering adaptive V-sync, frame limiters, GPU Boost and TXAA. They're not the same to me.

Some may hear gamers clamoring on some of these features as gimmick, going to die, foolish, waste of resources but this pro-active nature as a whole is the reason for the strong Brand-name to me. Not because nVidia buyers are dumb.

 

[Homeles]

1) Notice extremely high 460 volumes/month and 4x bigger volume compared to 6850, despite the later just launched(!).

2) Notice 570 equaling the volume of 6970 + 6950.
Although later can be unlocked, and it is faster with maxed AA/resolution blablah... all the arguments that are pulled now to show 7950 is superior to 660 Ti.

There's how many 460 models now? I think you need to educate yourself on how Steam classifies video cards.

Also, the 570 launched a week before the 6970 and 6950. When you condense the sample size into one month, one week is a long time.

 

[TakeNoPrisoners]

TweakTown is the worst site by far for reviews, lets wait until something half decent gets the card.

 

[BlockheadBrown]

If support for obsolete, slow as crap cards (in modern games) is a major selling point for you, then by all means, stick with your favorite company.

It is an important thing to note - especially if you plan on keeping your card for several years. That point (keeping a card for X years) gets debated often enough. I wouldn't be a happy camper if my card didn't receive any more updates only because it was 3/4 generations old.

Nvidia's Maxwell series due out in a few years is projected (by them) to be substantially more powerful. So maybe keeping a card for a few years isn't the best thought. That said, keeping the best valued purchase is.

I don't know which to choose myself. I've enjoyed PhysX capabilities. I have several games that support it. That said, it has been tempting to get a 7950. I've had a sweet spot in me for ATI/AMD for years. Yet I currently have an Intel/Nvidia config. Why? Bulldozer was delayed and didn't perform as well as anticipated when it came time for me to upgrade. Additionally, it was sold at a premium when compared to lower priced, better performing options. I really did want an all AMD solution. "Rory" has done a great job trying to get more dollars out of their retail side. Historically, AMD has released comparable parts at or below competition pricing. It didn't happen this time around. I would have been a fool to jump in with my fanboy feet. I'm running into this a bit now. Now, I tend to prefer Nvidia mainly due to PhysX and arguably stability. As mentioned, I still have a sweet spot for AMD, even though they haven't given me a reason to for quite some time. Add to that the fallout of the graphics execs from AMD since Rory became the big cheese. Yeah, I have a few concerns and it's frustrating.

::steps off soap box and runs::

 

[Silverforce11]

About NV "better support".
Just look at look at the 3 games TT tested - Mafia II, Just Cause 2 and Metro 2033.
AMD can't even render them with same effects like Nvidia.)

Cough... if by better support u mean Physx.. LOL.

I knew some fanboy would bring up Physx.. guess it had to happen.

 

[SirPauly]

What might be right for you, may not be right for some :whiste :

If support for obsolete, slow as crap cards (in modern games) is a major selling point for you, then by all means, stick with your favorite company.

It is not the most important aspect but nVidia seems to place more of a driver commitment to their customers -- as a whole.

 

[Crap Daddy]

SirPauly is right. And people here tend to forget (due to the TT review which shows the 660Ti to be better than the 7950) that the 660Ti is a card that should be compared to 7870, same hierarchy and probably same MSRP (regardless that the 7870 is selling at discounted prices) while being unquestionably the better card.

 

[BlockheadBrown]

Cough... if by better support u mean Physx.. LOL.

I knew some fanboy would bring up Physx.. guess it had to happen.

It's not wise to go shooting off "fanboy" when there's a valid argument. PhysX can add to the experience. While it does not mean "better by default", implying that it can't add to the experience or that it isn't important points more to you being guilty of the same label you just unwisely threw out there.

 

[SirPauly]

Cough... if by better support u mean Physx.. LOL.

I knew some fanboy would bring up Physx.. guess it had to happen.

It's kind of objective to raise features that one may offer -- instead of mocking and insulting the features and posters. It may not be important to a gamer, they may choose to use or not to use the feature.

One of my investigations with the GTX 6XX series was GPU Physics; to see if there were any substantial and significant performance advantages but more-so evolutionary and incremental.

 

[AtenRa]

They have more games designed to fit their architecture

Lets have a list of DX-11 games,

LostPlanet 2 = NV TWIMTBP
Batman AC = NV TWIMTBP
Crysis 2 = NV TWIMTBP


Dirt 2 = AMD Gaming Evolved
Dirt 3 = AMD Gaming Evolved
Dirt Showdown = AMD Gaming Evolved
Formula 1 2010 = AMD Gaming Evolved
Formula 1 2011 = AMD Gaming Evolved
AVP = AMD Gaming Evolved
Deus-Ex HR = AMD Gaming Evolved
Total War Shogun 2 = AMD Gaming Evolved
Dragon Age II = AMD Gaming Evolved

Perhaps im missing one or two more games but you get the picture ya ??

 

[Silverforce11]

I'm not even going to bother wasting time debating the merits of Physx, its a dead horse, let it die.

 

[Homeles]

SirPauly is right. And people here tend to forget (due to the TT review which shows the 660Ti to be better than the 7950) that the 660Ti is a card that should be compared to 7870, same hierarchy and probably same MSRP (regardless that the 7870 is selling at discounted prices) while being unquestionably the better card.

Because you can totally compare Nvidia's GPUs to AMD's GPUs like that.

 

[Crap Daddy]

I'm not even going to bother wasting time debating the merits of Physx, its a dead horse, let it die.

Well, if you consider the upcoming Borderlands 2, Metro Last Light and The Secret World to be of no interest at all then yes.

 

[BlockheadBrown]

Well, if you consider the upcoming Borderlands 2, Metro Last Light and The Secret World to be of no interest at all then yes.

People have been predicting the death of PhysX for a while. PhysX is relevant to an extent. Whatever happens, the gamer needs to decide if it's important to them for the current games that support it and upcoming games that have announced support.

 

[Silverforce11]

Well, if you consider the upcoming Borderlands 2, Metro Last Light and The Secret World to be of no interest at all then yes.

The Secret World is already out and the Physx effects.. lame.

But the other two games, we'll see.

A few games a year with lame effects and once in awhile, a decent game with good effects is hardly a talking point. Then consider: cards that suffer low performance with AA on don't have the power to run with Physx as well.

 

[KompuKare]

It is an important thing to note - especially if you plan on keeping your card for several years. That point (keeping a card for X years) gets debated often enough. I wouldn't be a happy camper if my card didn't receive any more updates only because it was 3/4 generations old.

Counter to that, I was actually planning to keep my last Nvidia card (8800GT) for a while longer but due the #1 GPU issue of all time (Nvidia's bumbgate) it died on me. Ok at that stage it may have been fairly slow and worth a lot less than the £140 I paid for it (I'd guess maybe £40-£50). But even that little worth would have been better than landfill :-(

 

[BlockheadBrown]

Counter to that, I was actually planning to keep my last Nvidia card (8800GT) for a while longer but due the #1 GPU issue of all time (Nvidia's bumbgate) it died on me. Ok at that stage it may have been fairly slow and worth a lot less than the £140 I paid for it (I'd guess maybe £40-£50). But even that little worth would have been better than landfill :-(

I'm sorry to hear that. I have read more than once that the build quality of the cards based off AMD requirements are better (from Sapphire/Asus/MSI/Gigabyte). I don't know how much substance there is to that though.

 

[blackened23]

Well, if you consider the upcoming Borderlands 2, Metro Last Light and The Secret World to be of no interest at all then yes.

I'm glad you brought The Secret World up, Crap Daddy. Oddly enough, this is a TWIMTBP played title and I do own it - I play on Grim server (templar). FANTASTIC GAME. Best MMO i've played in years, and I played WoW for years before this. It is new, different, fresh, and very very fun. I played SWTOR and rift also and ultimately hated those games because they borrow too much from WoW. I urge everyone to check this game out because its very different from WoW in terms of mechanics and gameplay.

Anyway to my point. While this game is supposed to support TXAA, it doesn't. Those options are greyed out - and if you look at funcom's forums they have NO IDEA when it will be working, some reps predicted in september (depending on nvidia). Thats great support for you yes? Furthermore, SLI does not work in this game even though its a TWIMTBP title. Whats up with that? I played on 680 SLI and I get about 20-30% usage per GPU with vsync off. Needless to say, performance is a LOT WORSE than it should be considering I have 680 SLI. It dips below 60 fps quite often with maxed out settings @ 2560x1600.

Perhaps you should use games that support your argument well, because this game does not. If nvidia is supporting this title, well I don't see it because funcom is waiting for NV to fix their crap and they have no timeline. Other than maybe september. If you can petition nvidia to support this title like you claim they do so well, please do so, I want SLI to work.

 

[BlockheadBrown]

funcom is waiting for NV to fix their crap and they have no timeline. Other than maybe september. If you can petition nvidia to support this title like you claim they do so well, please do so, I want SLI to work.

This reminds me of ATI/AMD driver garbage back when I was regularly playing City of Heroes. Months to years waiting for a driver fix. It wasn't an issue on the development side. It was a driver side issue that ATI/AMD acknowledged and then one driver release, the issue disappeared of the notes that they'd publish. The issue was still present and reported by many after the issue disappeared of the notes. It was never in the "fixed" portion. It's an old issue and I don't remember the details now, but it was infuriating at the time.

 

[blackened23]

Months and years like it took to get a SLI profile for Dirt: Showdown and Alan Wake. Is this what you speak of? I think so They both have issues with dual GPU support, although AMD definitely has to work on user experience, I don't disagree with you. They also had some high profile screwups like skyrim in crossfire and such, that definitely affects how people think of them and its pretty unforgivable. Anyway, when SLI doesn't work for nvidia they get a free pass apparently. I would certainly like SLI to work in TSW - the game needs more oomph.

 

[BlockheadBrown]

Months and years like it took to get a SLI profile for Dirt: Showdown and Alan Wake. Is this what you speak of? I think so They both have issues with dual GPU support, although users are seemingly way more forgiving to nvidia for some reason. When SLI doesn't work for nvidia they get a free pass apparently. I would certainly like SLI to work in TSW - the game needs more oomph.

The more I think about it, it was an AA issue and an issue with high quality water effects. AA couldn't be enabled after whatever driver release. I could look up my posts, but I don't want to rage-punch my monitor. I'm sure it's fixed now.

I had SLI once. I dropped it though once the motherboards supporting SLI got too expensive (when I was looking at the time). Single card solutions going forward. I think if I get an AMD card, I could go dual. I can't remember off the top of my head. I guess momentary loss of memory is trending in me today. ;P

 

[SirPauly]

Differentiation aside -- I agree with Blackened 23 on SecretWorld -- what a lot of fun to play and original - so different from WoW.

 

[Crap Daddy]

If you can petition nvidia to support this title like you claim they do so well, please do so, I want SLI to work.

I haven't claimed anything. Just ran a short list of new games that use PhysX.

 

[Phynaz]

TweakTown is the worst site by far for reviews, lets wait until something half decent gets the card.

That's kinda what I was going to say, there's a whole lot of arguing going on about a review that we don't even know is real.

 

[blackened23]

I haven't claimed anything. Just ran a short list of new games that use PhysX.

The Secret World doesn't and won't use physx, not sure on the others. I don't think TSW lends much to your argument, especially when nvidia features/SLI for The Secret World is broken.

Anyway, Borderlands 2 would suit your argument much better because it looks like it will use physx, not sure about TXAA though. Hopefully all of this will be available at launch, instead of having to wait like TSW.. (i'm very much looking forward to borderlands 2)