tweaktown review GTX660Ti

[chimaxi83]

I would love to overclock a 7970 on water, when the price is within reason.

I didn't pay $350 for a 470, that would have just made me sad. The most I ever paid for a 470 was $185 in 2010, after that I paid $110, $150, $100, $90, $40.

These prices are a joke and a slap in the face to anyone whose been following gpu tech for the last 10 years.

I can understand the $400+ user market, I can't understanding anyone accepting these cards at their current prices.


Can you imagine if the 280 was 30% faster than the 8800?

Can you imagine if the 480 was just 30% faster than that 280?

Can you imagine if the 680 was just 30% faster than the 580?

It just seems silly to me, granted they're both fast cards, they just aren't $500 cards.

We get it, you'd marry your 470's and have 460 babies if you could. WE. GET. IT.

The rest of us are enjoying our top of the line cards.

 

[ocre]

Did you read the review? You don't need to go hires. With AA @ 1920*1200 the 670 is ~20% faster overall and ~25% faster in the Dx11 titles. Because of the limited number of titles it's hard to come to a definitive conclusion, but it's not looking so great. If that trend continued overall it would put it in 7870 performance territory. Depending on price, power consumption, etc. that might not be a bad thing. It doesn't look like the 7950 is going to be threatened by it, though.

What????

the 670 will cost 100-150 more than this card? Up to 160% more. You would expect it to not perform as well as their 670.

Some of the stuff in this thread makes me feel like i am in the twilight zone or something.

Its unreal.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

We get it, you'd marry your 470's and have 460 babies if you could. WE. GET. IT.

The rest of us are enjoying our top of the line cards.

No I'm saying outside of brands, outside of monikers, outside of feelings, neither AMD nor Nvidia are offering anything close to reasonable prices or performance gains over last generation cards.

I'm sorry I'm not as content as you are to applaud these companies, and then argue with and belittle other forum posters over such meager and frankly pathetic gains, but to each their own.

 

[llee]

Can we be realistic?

Many of you are operating under the assumption that the prospective buyers of this card will be rocking 1440p/1600p displays or triple monitor setups with 16x AA. That just doesn't make sense. This is a mid-range card and for better or worse, it is suited for a mid-range audience. These are the folks that will be using 1080p or smaller displays, and using 4x AA at the most.

It seems that this card will be a hit for its target niche, and that's probably all that Nvidia is hoping for. Besides, they wouldn't want GTX670 sales cannibalized now would they?

Did you read the review? You don't need to go hires. With AA @ 1920*1200 the 670 is ~20% faster overall and ~25% faster in the Dx11 titles. Because of the limited number of titles it's hard to come to a definitive conclusion, but it's not looking so great. If that trend continued overall it would put it in 7870 performance territory. Depending on price, power consumption, etc. that might not be a bad thing. It doesn't look like the 7950 is going to be threatened by it, though.

I'm not even sure how to respond. I wasn't saying that the GTX660Ti is a GTX670 killer.

What????

the 670 will cost 100-150 more than this card? Up to 160% more. You would expect it to not perform as well as their 670.

Some of the stuff in this thread makes me feel like i am in the twilight zone or something.

Its unreal.

Thank you.

 

[chimaxi83]

No I'm saying outside of brands, outside of monikers, outside of feelings, neither AMD nor Nvidia are offering anything close to reasonable prices or performance gains over last generation cards.

I'm sorry I'm not as content as you are to applaud these companies, and then argue with and belittle other forum posters over such meager and frankly pathetic gains, but to each their own.

Your opinion is your opinion. Plenty of people here feel otherwise, and are enjoying the newest "high end". Call it what you want, but it is what it is.

 

[RussianSensation]

What????

the 670 will cost 100-150 more than this card? Up to 160% more. You would expect it to not perform as well as their 670.
.

I just can't buy the idea that NV will sell a ~10% slower GTX660Ti for $150 less than a $400 670. How are they going to close the $250-400 price gap? If GTX660Ti is good, and because most 7950s still hover in the $350 range today, NV can do $300. I mean it really depends on what happens to 7950 prices and how well this card really does with AA. While this thread focuses on overclocking because of a lot of us do overclock, stock for stock 7950 isn't that fast. GTX660Ti should be fast relative to a stock 7950. We only have 1 review to go on with bad game selection as well. I just can't see a GTX660Ti card selling for $249 MSRP and then GTX670 remain a $399 card. Either the performance has to be much slower, NV will drop prices on 670/680 or the price may be higher than $250.

No I'm saying outside of brands, outside of monikers, outside of feelings, neither AMD nor Nvidia are offering anything close to reasonable prices or performance gains over last generation cards.

On the AMD side, because GTX580 was so strong in modern games with tessellation and because GTX680 dialled back die size and TDP, this is the smallest performance increase ever. At the same time the MSRP for 470 was $350 vs. $270 for the 5850. You did wait a while to pick up a 470 at a good price, right? I bet by summer of next year you'll be able to get ~GTX670 level of performance for $230-240 (or pick up a used one for that).

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Your opinion is your opinion. Plenty of people here feel otherwise, and are enjoying the newest "high end". Call it what you want, but it is what it is.

Hence I stated it was unbelievable to me, which denotes my opinion. No reason to go out and shoot down 470s which were top end cards just two years ago and are easily 35% faster on avg than a 5870 in modern DX11 titles.

Just because they're not the latest and greatest doesn't mean they're trash, just as the 470s had their time the 7970s and 680s will have theirs. Not even a year from now more than likely those cards will be playing second fiddle to the newer ones, and then once again a year from then those cards will be back burnered once again.

All I'm saying is if we're going to play that silly game, lets at least hold these companies to higher standards than 20-30% performance gains after a full node shrink. Unless you feel asking for greater progress is too much to ask for, to wit I have no response.

On the AMD side, because GTX580 was so strong in modern games with tessellation and because GTX680 dialled back die size and TDP, this is the smallest performance increase ever. At the same time the MSRP for 470 was $350 vs. $270 for the 5850. You did wait a while to pick up a 470 at a good price, right? I bet by summer of next year you'll be able to get ~GTX670 level of performance for $230-240 (or pick up a used one for that).

I got my first on black friday, I was going to buy a 460 for $180 but the MSI and ASUS 470s were both discounted to $180, at the time the 470 had dropped to $250 and was competing with the $250 6870.

It would be nice if Nvidia felt threatened by AMD and actually had a GK110 card ready to go, but alas I don't think they are and I don't think they do. The only way these cards will be priced reasonable by Nov is if both sides refresh before then.

 

[RussianSensation]

It would be nice if Nvidia felt threatened by AMD and actually had a GK110 card ready to go, but alas I don't think they are and I don't think they do. The only way these cards will be priced reasonable by Nov is if both sides refresh before then.

I think HD7950 Ghz edition (rumoured to launch at some point) and HD7970 GE are refreshes. Regular HD7950 and HD7970 will just drop to lower price levels while the 7950 GE/7970 GE will occupy higher price points. After that's it's just HD8000 series in 2013. I don't think NV is going to refresh this year either. They are against overclocking, which likely means they pushed clocks as far as they want to go. Increasing the die size is pretty expensive. I think they'll also refresh in 2013 with GTX700 series.

 

[3DVagabond]

What????

the 670 will cost 100-150 more than this card? Up to 160% more. You would expect it to not perform as well as their 670.

Some of the stuff in this thread makes me feel like i am in the twilight zone or something.

Its unreal.

The point is that the 7870 is also ~20% slower than the 670. It's hard to compare between the two brands with such a small sampling. It's easier to compare to the 670, which is the same chip.

Let's see, the difference between $300 and $400 somehow 160% more? Or, are you saying the 660ti is going to sell for ~$150? The twilight zone, indeed.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

I think HD7950 Ghz edition (rumoured to launch at some point) and HD7970 GE are refreshes. Regular HD7950 and HD7970 will just drop to lower price levels while the 7950 GE/7970 GE will occupy higher price points. After that's it's just HD8000 series in 2013. I don't think NV is going to refresh this year either. They are against overclocking, which likely means they pushed clocks as far as they want to go. Increasing the die size is pretty expensive. I think they'll also refresh in 2013 with GTX700 series.

8000 would be the refresh I'd need, along with 700 series from Nvidia, needs to be more than just a factory overclock

 

[RussianSensation]

8000 would be the refresh I'd need, along with 700 series from Nvidia, needs to be more than just a factory overclock

 

[BallaTheFeared]

The first graph I saw before the 680, the second is total win.

I'm not even sure why they put that red dot there though.

 

[RussianSensation]

This is awesome from NV how far GPUs have come from Consoles:

 

[BallaTheFeared]

I wish I could Photoshop like that

 

[thilanliyan]

No I'm saying outside of brands, outside of monikers, outside of feelings, neither AMD nor Nvidia are offering anything close to reasonable prices or performance gains over last generation cards.

I essentially got two 6950 cards for free because of bitcoin mining, and hopefully in several months this 7950 will have been for free as well. How can you complain about free?

If your only complaint about the current generation is pricing, go get an AMD card...you CAN get your card for a very reasonable price if you do some mining. Power use doesn't matter to you obviously, and you can watercool it, so you can have very good mining rates. Sell some of your 470s and you would have a great card that will pay for itself!!

So wadda you say??!! Off to the FS forum with the 470s??!!

 

[boxleitnerb]

No I'm saying outside of brands, outside of monikers, outside of feelings, neither AMD nor Nvidia are offering anything close to reasonable prices or performance gains over last generation cards.

I'm sorry I'm not as content as you are to applaud these companies, and then argue with and belittle other forum posters over such meager and frankly pathetic gains, but to each their own.

100% agree. The improvement of perf/$ this gen is laughable.

 

[Crap Daddy]

660Ti overclocked review same TT:

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/4..._reference_video_card_overclocked/index1.html

It pretty much can't touch the 670 so owners of this card can relax. 400$ well spent.

 

[Arkadrel]

No I'm saying outside of brands, outside of monikers, outside of feelings, neither AMD nor Nvidia are offering anything close to reasonable prices or performance gains over last generation cards.

Differnce between a 6970 and a 7970 is 61,3% gain in performance @ 2560x1600.
62% -> 100% (a 61,3% differnce).

Differnce between a 580 and a 7970 is 41% gain in performance @ 2560x1600.
71% -> 100% (a 41% differnce)

I think a jump like that is decent enough for a new gen.

 

[psolord]

660Ti overclocked review same TT:

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/4..._reference_video_card_overclocked/index1.html

It pretty much can't touch the 670 so owners of this card can relax. 400$ well spent.

When it came to the overclocking side of things it came as no surprise that when we loaded up MSI Afterburner we didn't have the ability to adjust the voltage since we're still a few weeks away from the model officially launching. We don't doubt, though, that over the next week or two we'll see an updated version of Afterburner that will be able to bring with it the ability to adjust the core voltage.

Does the 600 series support overvoltage after all?

 

[3DVagabond]

Does the 600 series support overvoltage after all?

The hardware does. It's part of the power management. It's locked out in drivers, apparently. With as resistant as nVidia has been about allowing voltage adjustment, I'd be surprised if it is allowed on the 660's.

 

[SirPauly]

Also agree! Considering this is a next generation arch on a substantial and significant node change, the price/performance is more-so evolutionary and incremental. However, as 28nm matures and competition heats up -- slowly improving.

 

[ocre]

The point is that the 7870 is also ~20% slower than the 670. It's hard to compare between the two brands with such a small sampling. It's easier to compare to the 670, which is the same chip.

Let's see, the difference between $300 and $400 somehow 160% more? Or, are you saying the 660ti is going to sell for ~$150? The twilight zone, indeed.

really? is your math that bad?

if the 660ti was $150 at launch then the 670 would cost TWICE (2x) as much.
2x 150 = 300

if the 660ti cost $250 the the 670 would be 1.6 times as much
1.6 x 250 = 400

if the 660ti cost 270 then the 670 would be ~1.5x as much

And for your specific 300 to 400 hundred inquiry:

if the 660ti cost 300 then the 670 would be around 1.35x as much


i am guessing that once the 660ti launches it could be bought for less than $299. Could be wrong. But i think it should be priced between the 250 and 300 mark. just over the half way point. But thats my figuring.

But even if it doesnt and is it is $299. You could pay 1.35-1.4 times more for a 670 which performs up to 20% better in highly stressed scenarios. I just dont see how you can make it sound bad???? it sounds pretty good to me. Especially considering the target mid-grade market. They will get out of the box ~7950 performance for a card costing the same as the 7870. How the heck can you paint this bad????? Even if the 660 ti is as slow as the 7870 in some cases, its *faster* than the 7950 in many others. This is at stock, without overclocks.

Its pretty amassing to see so many down play this card. It will be priced like the 7870 and can outperform the 7950. This is plan truth. Even in the highest AA 1600p test, it swaps licks with the 7950. A toss up. Does the 7870 ever win against the 7950 at 1600p with max AA piled on? Does it ever?

the 660ti will be priced like the 7870 currently is. bellow the 300 mark. This is not where the 7950 is priced. if you cannot see the potential for the 660ti then i feel for ya. Downplaying it takes some serious effort

 

[RussianSensation]

I think it's your math that confused us.

1.6x as much is 60% greater.
2.6x as much is 160% greater.

$250 to $400 is therefore 1.6x greater but only 60% greater, not 160% greater.

You can say that GTX670's price is 160% of GTX660Ti's price, but 160% greater than $250 is actually $650.

Its pretty amassing to see so many down play this card. It will be priced like the 7870 and can outperform the 7950. This is plan truth. Even in the highest AA 1600p test, it swaps licks with the 7950. A toss up. Does the 7870 ever win against the 7950 at 1600p with max AA piled on? Does it ever?

That's impossible. Please explain why anyone would buy an 800mhz HD7950 for $350 when you can get a 950mhz HD7950 for $350?

This is HD7950 only at 860mhz, not at 950mhz.

Considering even with an 155mhz GPU overclock, this card can't even touch a stock GTX670, the chance that this card can beat a 950mhz HD7950 at 1600P is 0. And once you consider 1.1ghz HD7950, these 2 cards will be in an entirely different class. So yes, it'll be good for those who don't overclock and are insane enough to spend $350 on a reference HD7950, but for enthusiasts if this card is $300, it'll be a dud vs. an overclocked 7950.

This card will gets annihilated in Metro 2033, Crysis 1/Warhead, and anything that even remotely has intensive graphics. It's just common sense: HD7950 is essentially an underclocked 7970 with 112TMUs, 32ROPs and 384-bit bus and this card is a 33% ROP/Memory bandwidth cut down 1344 SP GK104. The fact that the average Joe who thinks "AMD drivers are the suck", "AMD is the budget GPU brand", "AMD has no features", "But it has the PhysX!" will buy this over the 7950 doesn't make it at a better card in any way.

Obviously NV knows this which is why it won't price it at $350. Now you get into the $300 vs. $350 pricing argument. HD7950 has 30-40% additional overclocking headroom on top of 800mhz for that extra $50, 3GB of VRAM and huge performance leads in demanding games. Actually with latest drivers GTX680 lost in 14 out of 17 tests at 2560x1600 to HD7970 GE. So there is literally no chance that an overclocked GTX660Ti can trade blows with an overclocked 7950 at 1600P.

Also, Kepler's performance in Dirt Showdown and Sniper Elite V2 is terrible. Who knows if more games will use directcompute and contact hardening shadows. Another knock against the 660Ti.

GTX660Ti:
- Worse overclocking / GPU performance scaling
- Less VRAM
- Not ready for DirectCompute / contact hardening shadows in future games
- More crippled compared to 670 than HD7950 is to the 7970 on the technical side (ROP/memory bandwidth)
- Most likely worse performance with AA due to low ROP/memory bandwidth count
- Poor performance in Metro 2033 foreshadows this card tanking in Metro Last Light

And I think most people give a lot more respect to a card that does well in Crysis/Warhead than Far Cry 2 or HAWX 2 that Tweaktown used. HD7950 hangs with 670 there:

The bright spot for the GTX660Ti will be Portal 2 with SSAA and Battlefield 3 (and the usual Blizzard games: WOW, SC2, etc.)

 

[cmdrdredd]

really? is your math that bad?

if the 660ti was $150 at launch then the 670 would cost TWICE (2x) as much.
2x 150 = 300

if the 660ti cost $250 the the 670 would be 1.6 times as much
1.6 x 250 = 400

if the 660ti cost 270 then the 670 would be ~1.5x as much

And for your specific 300 to 400 hundred inquiry:

if the 660ti cost 300 then the 670 would be around 1.35x as much


i am guessing that once the 660ti launches it could be bought for less than $299. Could be wrong. But i think it should be priced between the 250 and 300 mark. just over the half way point. But thats my figuring.

But even if it doesnt and is it is $299. You could pay 1.35-1.4 times more for a 670 which performs up to 20% better in highly stressed scenarios. I just dont see how you can make it sound bad???? it sounds pretty good to me. Especially considering the target mid-grade market. They will get out of the box ~7950 performance for a card costing the same as the 7870. How the heck can you paint this bad????? Even if the 660 ti is as slow as the 7870 in some cases, its *faster* than the 7950 in many others. This is at stock, without overclocks.

Its pretty amassing to see so many down play this card. It will be priced like the 7870 and can outperform the 7950. This is plan truth. Even in the highest AA 1600p test, it swaps licks with the 7950. A toss up. Does the 7870 ever win against the 7950 at 1600p with max AA piled on? Does it ever?

the 660ti will be priced like the 7870 currently is. bellow the 300 mark. This is not where the 7950 is priced. if you cannot see the potential for the 660ti then i feel for ya. Downplaying it takes some serious effort

I only see it outperforming in outdated and irrelevant games. It does poorly by comparison in metro 2033 which is actually a modern title. Further hindered by poor AA performance from what we know so far...not really much value unless it is well below $300. I don't think anyone has said anything different than that.

 

[Jaydip]

I think it's your math that confused us.

1.6x as much is 60% greater.
2.6x as much is 160% greater.

$250 to $400 is therefore 1.6x greater but only 60% greater, not 160% greater.

You can say that GTX670's price is 160% of GTX660Ti's price, but 160% greater than $250 is actually $650.



That's impossible. Please explain why anyone would buy an 800mhz HD7950 for $350 when you can get a 950mhz HD7950 for $350?

This is HD7950 only at 860mhz, not at 950mhz.

Considering even with an 155mhz GPU overclock, this card can't even touch a stock GTX670, the chance that this card can beat a 950mhz HD7950 at 1600P is 0. And once you consider 1.1ghz HD7950, these 2 cards will be in an entirely different class. So yes, it'll be good for those who don't overclock and are insane enough to spend $350 on a reference HD7950, but for enthusiasts if this card is $300, it'll be a dud vs. an overclocked 7950.

This card will gets annihilated in Metro 2033, Crysis 1/Warhead, and anything that even remotely has intensive graphics. It's just common sense: HD7950 is essentially an underclocked 7970 with 112TMUs, 32ROPs and 384-bit bus and this card is a 33% ROP/Memory bandwidth cut down 1344 SP GK104. The fact that the average Joe who thinks "AMD drivers are the suck", "AMD is the budget GPU brand", "AMD has no features", "But it has the PhysX!" will buy this over the 7950 doesn't make it at a better card in any way.

Obviously NV knows this which is why it won't price it at $350. Now you get into the $300 vs. $350 pricing argument. HD7950 has 30-40% additional overclocking headroom on top of 800mhz for that extra $50, 3GB of VRAM and huge performance leads in demanding games. Actually with latest drivers GTX680 lost in 14 out of 17 tests at 2560x1600 to HD7970 GE. So there is literally no chance that an overclocked GTX660Ti can trade blows with an overclocked 7950 at 1600P.

Also, Kepler's performance in Dirt Showdown and Sniper Elite V2 is terrible. Who knows if more games will use directcompute and contact hardening shadows. Another knock against the 660Ti.

GTX660Ti:
- Worse overclocking / GPU performance scaling
- Less VRAM
- Not ready for DirectCompute / contact hardening shadows in future games
- More crippled compared to 670 than HD7950 is to the 7970 on the technical side (ROP/memory bandwidth)
- Most likely worse performance with AA due to low ROP/memory bandwidth count
- Poor performance in Metro 2033 foreshadows this card tanking in Metro Last Light

And I think most people give a lot more respect to a card that does well in Crysis/Warhead than Far Cry 2 or HAWX 2 that Tweaktown used. HD7950 hangs with 670 there:

The bright spot for the GTX660Ti will be Portal 2 with SSAA and Battlefield 3 (and the usual Blizzard games: WOW, SC2, etc.)

U honestly have no idea of vram usage.U tout 1Gb extra ram as a redeeming feature in all of ur posts.Look at the [H] reviw of 680,even the 580 was able to beat the 7970 in skyrim using 1.5Gb vram.Every Gpu architecture allocated vram in a different way.U can't compare them directly.For eg Bf3 used more vram in 7970 while still being slower.Unless u have access to the game code u just can't comment on how vram is being allocated.Another thing
"Actually with latest drivers GTX680 lost in 14 out of 17 tests at 2560x1600 to HD7970 GE"
So 680 can't improve on that?seriously check ur facts before posting.NV has always been able to squeeze tremendous performance gains from their drivers.
"Also, Kepler's performance in Dirt Showdown and Sniper Elite V2 is terrible. Who knows if more games will use directcompute and contact hardening shadows. Another knock against the 660Ti."
Another day dreaming.NV has way better relationship with game devs than amd.Funny thing is most of the games u consider worthwhile for benches are sponsored by NV.