Question TV not discoverable at times on wireless network.

deustroop

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Dec 12, 2010
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I have a Samsung Smart TV with WiFI. The TV and this PC are connected to the same 5G network. The TV displays cable channels and streaming services through WIFI .I can Cast To the TV from the PC which then displays the desktop on the TV. Microsoft's " Cast To " app does this . One rtcl on a multimedia file displays Cast To / Searching for devices and when the TV is found, Cast To plays the complete desktop on the TV. Or, as here, from time to time, displays "device not found".
I'm not concerned with mirroring but streaming from the PC to the TV. That works with a Samsung app called Smart View. Opening SV says to make sure the TV and PC are connected to the same network and then "search for TV's" and mostly finds the Samsung and then will allow me to play on the TV in one room various files from the PC in another.Using SV, I can stream movies from the PC to the TV. Except when the app cannot find the TV on the network. And Cast To cannot find it either at this time. The TV remains connected to the network, e.g.the streamers play. I have run into the phrase " discoverable" as where items are connected because they are discoverable on a network. Here I will say the TV is not discoverable yet remains connected .
The solution I found but am not pleased to use is to reboot the TV. Voila ! Cast To and SV are then able to find the TV. But I think constantly rebooting cannot be good for the TV . I've timed it and within several hours of being turned off, the TV disappears from the arch of each app, leaving " device not found".
Can anyone suggest what the problem is with the TV and how to fix it permanently ?
 

deustroop

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Firmware update? "Smart TVs" are notoriously unreliable.
All OS updates are installed. The HUB ( Smart TV) operation has worked perfectly for 5 yrs and continues to do so for popular uses, like Netflix, DAZN, etc, Its only recently that WIFI has thrown up this difficulty where the TV is connected but not discoverable until a reboot. I am wondering if there is a category of problems solved by a reboot ? What's going on that gets solved by a reboot ?
 

mxnerd

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Wifi module's Miracast/Direct WiFi part overheating/dying? Might need a new Miracast/Direct WiFi HDMI dongle.
 
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deustroop

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Wifi module's Miracast/Direct WiFi part overheating/dying? Might need a new Miracast/Direct WiFi HDMI dongle.
WIFI is built into the TV and no dongle is necessary and when the connection is lost WIFI continues to work fine , for example, Netflix etc continue to stream to the TV . I reboot the TV and the connection can be made and lasts as long as the TV remains on for any purpose, but after several hours of the TV being turned off, while still connected otherwise to the wireless network, the TV becomes undetected by either app, both of which operate the same way, dependant on linking the PC to the TV and I must reboot to reestabish the connection , TV to PC.
 
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mxnerd

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That's exactly what I meant. The usual wifi part (that connects to the wifi router) works, but the extra Miracast/Wifi Direct feature that connect PC and TV directly without going through wifi router probably is failing. That's why I said you probably need a new Miracast/Direct wifi HDMI adapter that connects your PC and TV directly.
 

deustroop

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This PC does not support WIFI Direct. AFAIK, Direct applies to a connection with a mobile device ( no modem around) not a PC. Samsung appears to support the Windows Cast To and Samsung's own SV functions on a PC though SV can be installed on a mobile device to provide " mirroring". Also, rebooting fixes the problem so long as the TV stays on which tends to remove suspicion from a failing Direct.
 

deustroop

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I'm casting my tv and mobile, Yes sometimes it happens to me. What I do, First try to remove the tv device from the mobile(It's already listed as a known device), reboot it, and try to casting it.

Once try with the mobile, if it's possible to cast with it.
I use the wireless network to establish a PC-TV connection . I could delete the TV as a device in Win 10 as you suggest but this may amount to no more than pulling the plug which i would like to avoid.
 

JackMDS

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There is one thong that I noticed in the last years.

If you Wireless system (either in a Router or other Networked components) have the capacity to use Network type of Wireless and Dircet Wireless).

Do not let any one to use the Direct Wireless. Almost any time one of the users uses the Direct connection the Networked Wireless would get into some trouble. The Direct connect "Kidnaps" the Wireless components that it was connected to.

Most Manufacturers see more value in the amount of Product sold than from doing correct technical Builds.

Lucky for them 98% of the users have No understanding in Networking and Wireless technology, at the best some of the Knowledge come from Filtered marketting. I.e. they do not lie but they do not provide the real true story the product functioning.

t rather easy to solve the Direct connection in the hardware but components must be added and the configuration of the system would harder. That would raise the prices and price is The Boss not technology.

As for smart TV. I am not familiare with many of them. The few that I am in control of, I always connect them to the Network Wireless as a network regular component.

:cool:
 

mxnerd

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Samsung doc:

Project your Windows 10 or Windows 11 PC to a TV
Requirements

Before everyone can enjoy the show, make sure your PC and TV have the right requirements. You will need:

A WiDi compatible PC: Most newer PCs (since Windows 8) will support WiDi. The best to way find out if your PC is compatible is by trying to mirror your screen. If your PC does not support WiDi, you can always use a separate USB adapter. https://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-ScreenBeam-Wireless-Receiver-SBWD60A01/dp/B00O14JG2Y

Miracast or WiDi receiver on your TV: Make sure your TV has a Miracast or WiDi receiver. If not, you can always use an external adapter.
Mirror your screen https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Wireless-Display-Adapter-P3Q-00001/dp/B01AZC3J3M

==

WiDi has been discontined by Intel and technology has shifted to Miracast

Miracast employs the peer-to-peer Wi-Fi Direct standard. It allows sending up to 1080p HD video (H.264 codec) and 5.1 surround sound (AAC and AC3 are optional codecs, mandated codec is linear pulse-code modulation – 16 bits 48 kHz 2 channels).[4] The connection is created via WPS and therefore is secured with WPA2. IPv4 is used on the Internet layer. On the transport layer, TCP or UDP are used. On the application layer, the stream is initiated and controlled via RTSP, RTP for the data transfer.


==

I did have experience with Google Chromecast, but no Miracast experience.
 
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deustroop

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Thank you for helping here.

I suggest WIFI Direct died a peaceful death, based on the blurb above, concerning the difficulties in implementing it across so many small devices.

"Screen Mirroring.Such a feature lets you mirror what’s on your phone’s screen to a bigger screen, like a smart TV. Exactly what’s showing on your phone will appear on the TV." This is also a description of Smart View for a phone. It puts the entire phone's screen on the TV. Neither apply here, where Smart View for the PC allows one to stream a file from the PC to a TV, no mobile involvement .
Windows' app, Cast To..is similar to these phone apps,.It shows up when you rtcl a media file.I guess that once Windows added this function, it removed any interest in a separate Casting / Mirroring device for the PC. But as described here, it is presented as a Phone-TV function that does not support streaming from the PC, for which I use Smart View for the PC.

Mirroring and "Project" and Miracast and Chromecast and Smart View for the mobile, are all the same function, I believe, and are incorporated in Windows 10 as Cast To.. and give nothing more than what you get when you use the HDMI port to connect a screen to a PC. This arrangement is appropriate to put an entire laptop screen on a big screen.I do this when on vacation with a notebook and watch movies on a big screen there. I just use the HDMI cable, not Cast To because I have no control over that WIFI .
 

mpo

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Ran into similar issues with a new wireless router.

If you have Smart Connect enabled on your router, turn it off.

Assign separate SSIDs and passwords for the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz channels.

Try connecting the TV to the 2.4 GHz SSID.

Streaming from a Plex server will still hiccup from time-to-time.
 

deustroop

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Ran into similar issues with a new wireless router.

If you have Smart Connect enabled on your router, turn it off.

Assign separate SSIDs and passwords for the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz channels.

Try connecting the TV to the 2.4 GHz SSID.

Streaming from a Plex server will still hiccup from time-to-time.
Thx for the tips but they have no bearing.This modem has no smart connect, each band has a separate ID / password and the lower band does not help the loss of discoverability but I will try the lower band again just to be sure.
 

mxnerd

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Well, Microsoft added MS-MICE protocol since Windows 10 1709, which uses your existing wired or wifi network instead of traditional Miracast (peer-to-peer wifi)



So is it possible the Samsung TV's wifi is not able to renew it's DHCP IP address?

Try wired ethernet see if it fixes the problem, and set a static IP if possible.
 

deustroop

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Well, Microsoft added MS-MICE protocol since Windows 10 1709, which uses your existing wired or wifi network instead of traditional Miracast (peer-to-peer wifi)



So is it possible the Samsung TV's wifi is not able to renew it's DHCP IP address?

Try wired ethernet see if it fixes the problem, and set a static IP if possible.
Again, Miracast in Windows is the Cast To... app. As the quoted text says,
Miracast is "effectively a wireless HDMI cable, copying everything from one screen to another, emulating the HDMI system". It suffers the same fate here as Smart View for PC : when Smart View for PC cannot find the TV, neither can Cast To.. Neither app can find the TV to connect until the TV is rebooted and they all stay visible to each other until the TV is turned off for a few hrs or more. Discoverability disappears once the TV has been tirned off for a while.
The TV IP is static as it shows the same IP on the modem's connected devices list.I cannot try wired , wish I could, but the TV is in a different room from the PC, all the reason I use the WIFI.
 

VirtualLarry

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The TV IP is static as it shows the same IP on the modem's connected devices list.I cannot try wired , wish I could, but the TV is in a different room from the PC, all the reason I use the WIFI.
Try using a wired connection to a wireless ethernet / media bridge device, if the internal wifi in the TV is getting flaky.

Edit: On second thought, I'm not 100% sure screen-casting will work with a media bridge. Is it an L2 or L3 protocol?
 
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mxnerd

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Again, Miracast in Windows is the Cast To... app. As the quoted text says,
Miracast is "effectively a wireless HDMI cable, copying everything from one screen to another, emulating the HDMI system". It suffers the same fate here as Smart View for PC : when Smart View for PC cannot find the TV, neither can Cast To.. Neither app can find the TV to connect until the TV is rebooted and they all stay visible to each other until the TV is turned off for a few hrs or more. Discoverability disappears once the TV has been tirned off for a while.
The TV IP is static as it shows the same IP on the modem's connected devices list.I cannot try wired , wish I could, but the TV is in a different room from the PC, all the reason I use the WIFI.
I know what you were talking about. My PC could find my old Samsung Galaxy J5 with WiFi Direct turned on, but still couldn't cast to it.


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deustroop

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OK . Menus have changed as this is a 2016 TV. I have a "mobile device list" which I assume is the one referred to. It lists properly an iphone and the two computers here, several times. But the issue I have is that discoverability works as long as the TV is ON , as opposed to the user's app mentioned in the FAQ which didn't work at all until he drained the swamp so to speak. He could not establish connection but I cannot maintain one when the TV is off.
There is also a menu item here for " connected devices" for WIFI Direct but though several are listed, none belong to me and none are " connected".
 

deustroop

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Try using a wired connection to a wireless ethernet / media bridge device, if the internal wifi in the TV is getting flaky.

Edit: On second thought, I'm not 100% sure screen-casting will work with a media bridge. Is it an L2 or L3 protocol?
Ok, don't know the protocol # but some extenders have minuscule throughput. In any event that idea appears to suffer from not addressing the issue, the gradual extinction of discoverability when the TV is turned OFF for several hours yet working well when Mr. TV is rebooted and kept ON.
Sigh
I need a vacation.
 

DaaQ

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Dec 8, 2018
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Again, Miracast in Windows is the Cast To... app. As the quoted text says,
Miracast is "effectively a wireless HDMI cable, copying everything from one screen to another, emulating the HDMI system". It suffers the same fate here as Smart View for PC : when Smart View for PC cannot find the TV, neither can Cast To.. Neither app can find the TV to connect until the TV is rebooted and they all stay visible to each other until the TV is turned off for a few hrs or more. Discoverability disappears once the TV has been tirned off for a while.
The TV IP is static as it shows the same IP on the modem's connected devices list.I cannot try wired , wish I could, but the TV is in a different room from the PC, all the reason I use the WIFI.

Sounds like the HDMI HDCP handshake failing when turning the TV back on. Some STB had this issue, especially DirecTV with Sony older TVs.

Does TV power on off restore or you must power cycle TV?

Edit: If this really does act as a "wireless HDMI" the HDCP could be the reason.
 
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deustroop

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Both Cast To..( mirroring app) and Smart View for PC ( steaming from PC to TV) are wifi apps which cannot find the TV on the wireless network unless the TV is rebooted ( not just turned off) . Thereafter the TV is clearly accessable to the apps until the TV has been turned off for some indeterminate amount of time. Then the TV must be rebooted again.
 

DaaQ

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Yes and HDMI HDCP handshake is initiated at TV startup, if it fails, it reverts to analog IIRC (can't remember this part for sure) and stereo audio.

According to post I quoted it was stated that it is "essentially" a wireless HDMI connection, so HDCP " should " apply.

Take it or leave it, just trying to give you some info. Hard wired HDMI connections that failed the handshake would blackscreen. Until STB or TV power cycle.
 

deustroop

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Thank you boys for the ideas but this does not appear to be an HDMI issue. As you note, an HDMI failure will blank the screen. [ Also , the HDMI provides mirroring not streaming and cables are 6 ft where I specifically use WIFI as the TV is in another room.] Note as well the WIFI remains active ( streaming to the TV by Netflix etc. continues, no loss of data) and HDMI ports are solid ( cable is on HDMI 1) even though the TV becomes unrecoverable on the WIFI network. Once the TV is rebooted there is no issue.
 

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