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Turkey bombs Kurds, Arms ISIS

Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Bombing Kurds:
July, 2015 - Turkey steps up bombing of Kurdish targets in Iraq
August, 2015 - Kurdish civilians under fire as Turkey bombs PKK in Iraq
September, 2015 - Turkey sends ground forces into Iraq after militant attacks

Arming ISIS:
May, 2015 - Turkish intelligence helped ship arms to Syrian Islamist rebel areas
June, 2015 - Turkish President: Country not sending arms to terrorists in Syria; Journalist will pay "a high price"
September, 2015 - Turkish daily exposes transfer of weapons to ISIS

Turkey is continuing to escalate violence against Kurds into a full blown WAR, including a ground invasion into Iraq. Media reports Turkey is arming ISIS by up to "two semi trucks" of fertilizer per day, and Turkey responds by raiding its press officers and arresting its journalists.

There's also the bonus of a Turkey arms shipment to Libya. For the ISIS terrorists located there?

Who needs enemies when you have "friends" like Turkey?

Bugun's revelation continued: “For two months, every single day two semitrailer loads of fertilizer used in production of explosives, one semi load of metal sheeting and one truckload of electronic supplies and cables were transferred to IS-controlled areas of Syria. Moreover, every other day, one truckload of barrels filled with explosives and crates of fuses were moved across.”

The photographic coverage did not specify the dates of shipments through Akcakale customs to Tell Abyad.

Bugun's report said the shipments, made in front of the local customs director and his staff, also included metal piping often used in the production of mortar tubes. In the photographs, obviously taken from a building overlooking the crossing, one can see the barrels said to contain explosives, sacks of fertilizer to be used in explosive production, metal piping and sheets to use for weapons and armor manufacturing, and workers pushing the trailers loaded with them.

In archive photographs that Bugun added to the same pages, one sees jihadists posing with mortar tubes and armored vehicles allegedly produced with the supplies transferred over the border.
Click to expand...
 
It's OK - because Turkey is the child that can do no wrong in the US' eyes, since the US needs Turkey on many fronts.

You can thank Kissenger for setting the tone on Turkey doing not wrong.
 
If you want to understand a bit about the Middle-East, it helps to divide the world in three groups. Very simple.

1) Non-muslims. That's us. We are Kafirs.
2) Sunnis.
3) Shiites.

The Sunnis main enemy are the Shiites. Us Kafirs are a lot less important.
The Shiites main enemy are the Sunnis. Us Kafirs are a lot less important.

Look at any conflict in the Middle-East, and in 99% of the cases it will be clearly a conflict between Sunnis and Shiites.

I'll give you an example.
Assad is an Alawite, which is a form of Shia Islam (Shiites).
ISIS are Sunnis.
Saudi-Arabia are Sunnis. They started funding the rebels in Syria. They still support the rebels in Syria, although maybe not openly. Including ISIS.
Turkey are Sunnis. They refuse to attack ISIS. They got no problems fighting Kurds, but they don't want to get "involved" fighting ISIS.
Iran are Shiites. Iran is supporting Assad. And actively fighting ISIS.

Simple, isn't it ?

If you want to end the war in Syria (and end the refugee crisis), you need to tell Turkey and Saudi-Arabia to cut the crap. You need to support Assad (as Russia has been doing). And destroy ISIS. But if your allies (Turkey and Saudi-Arabia) are secretly supporting your enemy, you can't win.
 
Gryz said:
If you want to understand a bit about the Middle-East, it helps to divide the world in three groups. Very simple.

1) Non-muslims. That's us. We are Kafirs.
2) Sunnis.
3) Shiites.

The Sunnis main enemy are the Shiites. Us Kafirs are a lot less important.
The Shiites main enemy are the Sunnis. Us Kafirs are a lot less important.

Look at any conflict in the Middle-East, and in 99% of the cases it will be clearly a conflict between Sunnis and Shiites.

I'll give you an example.
Assad is an Alawite, which is a form of Shia Islam (Shiites).
ISIS are Sunnis.
Saudi-Arabia are Sunnis. They started funding the rebels in Syria. They still support the rebels in Syria, although maybe not openly. Including ISIS.
Turkey are Sunnis. They refuse to attack ISIS. They got no problems fighting Kurds, but they don't want to get "involved" fighting ISIS.
Iran are Shiites. Iran is supporting Assad. And actively fighting ISIS.

Simple, isn't it ?

If you want to end the war in Syria (and end the refugee crisis), you need to tell Turkey and Saudi-Arabia to cut the crap. You need to support Assad (as Russia has been doing). And destroy ISIS. But if your allies (Turkey and Saudi-Arabia) are secretly supporting your enemy, you can't win.
Click to expand...

So what youre saying is we need to wipe out one of the sides? 😛 Im almost for that just to end the future fighting lol
 
soulcougher73 said:
So what youre saying is we need to wipe out one of the sides? 😛
Im almost for that just to end the future fighting lol
Click to expand...
No. I think both sides have arseholes and both sides have lots of innocent civilians.

But when dealing with the Middle-East, you always have to keep in mind who is Sunni and who is Shiite. Because if you don't, both sides will play you against each other.

I think the Western people involved must know this very well. Even the Bush family. I just happens that the Bush (and Republicans) are all on the hand of the Sunnis. Supporting Saudi-Arabia, no matter what, attacking Iran, no matter what. Democrats seem to have a more balanced view.

However, I am very surprised that the Sunni/Shiite angle is almost never mentioned in the news. The general audience doesn't seem to be aware. I started reading up a bit a few years back (I guess at the start of the Syrian cival war). So many things suddenly cleared up. The only complexity I encountered was Iraq under Saddam Hussein. Saddam and his cronies were Sunnis, while the majority of the Iraq population are Shiites. That explains the powerstruggle in Iraq the last 10 years, where the minority Shiites that used to be in power now fight the poor Sunni majority.

And then there are the Kurds. They got everybody against them. 🙂 :/
 
soulcougher73 said:
So what youre saying is we need to wipe out one of the sides? 😛 Im almost for that just to end the future fighting lol
Click to expand...

The sick and sad truth is that for every other time period other than modern that is what tended to happen. Up until WWII, it was assumed civilians would die. Fire bombs would destroy entire cities and kill all who could not get away. The only way to weaken an army was to weaken the entire people. Army installations are not split from civilian structures.

It used to be that you pummeled your enemy or they pummeled you and thus killed off huge parts of the people that disagreed with you. By the end, much of the war resources that allowed the war to be fought were used up.

Today, we are more industrious then ever. This means we can build things very quickly with little resources used. If an army is defeated, it can be rebuilt very quickly. You could destroy all of ISIS, and it would take only a few years at most to rebuild if there was a will.

Society has not yet figured out what to do when they disagree so strongly other than to kill. Most people seem to know killing is bad, so they have come up with ways to justify murder. So until we let one side win, or we come up with another solution, people will keep killing each other in the Muslim world.
 
Newell Steamer said:
Not sure - I have not looked into it; what do you think?
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Hell yeah.
BushKiss2.jpg

http://www.hermes-press.com/BushSaud.htm
(Although that looks like a photoshop. Not sure. But there are many similar pictures on the web, where Bush is shaking hands and even kissing Saudi Royalty).

Even Salon.com thinks so: http://www.salon.com/2004/03/11/unger_1/
https://www.google.nl/search?complete=0&ion=0&q=bush%20family%20saudi%20royal%20family%20ties

The Bushes and the Neocons in the previous decade had very simple list of priorities:
1) The Bush family
2) The Saudis
3) Israel
4) Republican voters. or maybe not.
5) everybody else can go fuck themselves
 
Last edited:
Gryz said:
No. I think both sides have arseholes and both sides have lots of innocent civilians.

But when dealing with the Middle-East, you always have to keep in mind who is Sunni and who is Shiite. Because if you don't, both sides will play you against each other.

I think the Western people involved must know this very well. Even the Bush family. I just happens that the Bush (and Republicans) are all on the hand of the Sunnis. Supporting Saudi-Arabia, no matter what, attacking Iran, no matter what. Democrats seem to have a more balanced view.

However, I am very surprised that the Sunni/Shiite angle is almost never mentioned in the news. The general audience doesn't seem to be aware. I started reading up a bit a few years back (I guess at the start of the Syrian cival war). So many things suddenly cleared up. The only complexity I encountered was Iraq under Saddam Hussein. Saddam and his cronies were Sunnis, while the majority of the Iraq population are Shiites. That explains the powerstruggle in Iraq the last 10 years, where the minority Shiites that used to be in power now fight the poor Sunni majority.

And then there are the Kurds. They got everybody against them. 🙂 :/
Click to expand...

The reason for that is many people that religion does not play a part in terrorism and conflict. If you ask someone like Eral, who comes in on these types of topics, he will tell you that the big 3 religions are not violent and do not want to kill each other. The only reason why there is a conflict in the middle east is because of bad people who hide behind religion, and the US for making people hate each other.

You can bring up 2 sides of religion as the source, because that is icky.
 
Gryz said:
Hell yeah.
BushKiss2.jpg

http://www.hermes-press.com/BushSaud.htm
(Although that looks like a photoshop. Not sure. But there are many similar pictures on the web, where Bush is shaking hands and even kissing Saudi Royalty).

Even Salon.com thinks so: http://www.salon.com/2004/03/11/unger_1/
https://www.google.nl/search?complete=0&ion=0&q=bush%20family%20saudi%20royal%20family%20ties

The Bushes and the Neocons in the previous decade had very simple list of priorities:
1) The Bush family
2) The Saudis
3) Israel
4) Republican voters. or maybe not.
5) everybody else can go fuck themselves
Click to expand...

As much as I dislike Bush, 2-5 apply to all recent presidents.
 
Jaskalas said:
Bombing Kurds:
July, 2015 - Turkey steps up bombing of Kurdish targets in Iraq
August, 2015 - Kurdish civilians under fire as Turkey bombs PKK in Iraq
September, 2015 - Turkey sends ground forces into Iraq after militant attacks

Arming ISIS:
May, 2015 - Turkish intelligence helped ship arms to Syrian Islamist rebel areas
June, 2015 - Turkish President: Country not sending arms to terrorists in Syria; Journalist will pay "a high price"
September, 2015 - Turkish daily exposes transfer of weapons to ISIS

Turkey is continuing to escalate violence against Kurds into a full blown WAR, including a ground invasion into Iraq. Media reports Turkey is arming ISIS by up to "two semi trucks" of fertilizer per day, and Turkey responds by raiding its press officers and arresting its journalists.

There's also the bonus of a Turkey arms shipment to Libya. For the ISIS terrorists located there?

Who needs enemies when you have "friends" like Turkey?
Click to expand...

Um... this is simple self preservation. The kurds have been actively attacking Turkey for decades now. What do you expect Turkey to do when they are attacked by an entity that poses an existential threat to their state? The Middle East is a tar baby with absolutely no "good" guys at all.
 
bshole said:
Um... this is simple self preservation. The kurds have been actively attacking Turkey for decades now. What do you expect Turkey to do when they are attacked by an entity that poses an existential threat to their state? The Middle East is a tar baby with absolutely no "good" guys at all.
Click to expand...
Well... insofar as "rooting" for the Kurds, it stems from ISIS and the war the two have waged against each other these past two years. From the Sinjar massacre to the fighting in Syria.

It certainly appears that the Kurds have been taking the lion's share of front line combat and casualties against ISIS. Only Iran-lead Iraqi forces have mounted any other offensive, and that thus far has been limited in scope considering Fallujah (45 miles outside Baghdad) is still in enemy hands.

The Kurds, as far as I am aware, were never significant opponents to the US lead coalition in Iraq. So not having our blood on their hands, and being the chief opposition to the genocidal ISIS means the Kurds are seen in a very positive and favorable light.

A few weeks ago I learned of Kurdish (PKK) terrorism in Turkey. I understand well that Turkey has its excuses for escalating violence and killing Kurds. Thus too do the Kurds have reason to retaliate, as they've been doing. It's combat, back and forth with both sides killing one another.

The Kurds are backed into a corner and their very existence is at stake. Their only real chance at continued survival would be to take shelter under Iraq / Iran's protection. That'll be the only logical outcome of Turkey decimating them. That and the continued rise of ISIS.

The Kurds are the ones who have been keeping ISIS at bay, and now our "ally" is both arming ISIS and eliminating their chief opponent. This is really giving us no other choice than to allow ISIS to continue, or for us to truly side with Russia / Iran / Syrian governments.

There appears to be no siding with Turkey.
 
Jaskalas said:
The Kurds are backed into a corner and their very existence is at stake. Their only real chance at continued survival would be to take shelter under Iraq / Iran's protection. That'll be the only logical outcome of Turkey decimating them. That and the continued rise of ISIS.
Click to expand...

BULL..... FUCKING..... SHIT..... They can accept the Turkish government and explore NONVIOLENT methods to accomplish their political ends. The Kurds initiated the violence and terrorism.

Perhaps the West should just arm all parties of the Middle East and let them engage genocidal warfare until they can come up with a stable peace. Our meddling is LESS than valueless to them or us.

Give ISIS their caliphate, I could give a shit. Let them have it out with Iran.

In any event, don't accept any of the people fleeing that hellhole. There is precious little evidence that any of them can act like civilized individuals. They are in desparate need of a cultural shift which deprecates religious fundamentalism and embraces secularism. Until that shift occurs, accepting them into your country is an invitation to disaster.
 
Gryz said:
And then there are the Kurds. They got everybody against them.
Click to expand...

No they do not.

The Kurds are Sunni actually. Yet contrary to what you might think the Iranians have good relations with them. And I know of no major true enemy of the Kurds but the Turkish.
 
norseamd said:
No they do not.

The Kurds are Sunni actually. Yet contrary to what you might think the Iranians have good relations with them. And I know of no major true enemy of the Kurds but the Turkish.
Click to expand...

To add to your thoughts here, the Kurdish people are closely related to the Persians (Iranians), which is partly why they share decent relations with the Iranians. The Turks have a history of suppressing minorities though (Armenians, anyone?), and the Kurds are no exception. But I'm going to stop there. The whole dang problem with the Middle East is that you have all these tribes and ethnic groups raising arms engaging in tit-for-tat with each other. Where's the forgiveness? Where's the tolerance?

No wonder the region is burning in ashes.
 
Gryz said:
And I assume we can thank the Bushes for setting the tone on Saudi-Arabia ?
Click to expand...

You seem very well versed on the whole area in general.

But even in the Reagan years, I knew many Avionics guys in the Marines were signing on for pretty nice bonuses to maintain the Saudi-Arabian air force after their initial obligation.

We've been doing it since the 50's there when the whole oil field thing started I believe.
 
Turkey has never loved the Kurds.

They just drove down the border and watched ISIS attack the in the north there to keep the from crossing more or less.

They were sitting there eating popcorn in armored vehicles more or less.
 
Not sure what is going on in Lebanon this days after they dropped off all those howitzers and ammo awhile back and Daesh was advancing there and you even have Christian and Palestinians pretty widespread there. It is actually pretty diverse.
 
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