as if owning something means that the owner understands and knows everythings there is to know about the said object ...
as if owning something means that the owner understands and knows everythings there is to know about the said object ...
how are superchargers turbines? they are compressors. they are powered by the motor, not a turbine. turbines extract shaft power from fluid momentum.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
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Which, I would guess (strictly a guess) is a derivative of "Turbine Supercharger" since a turbo is just a supercharger that is driven by a turbine.
ZV
Bah brain fart, I meant to say compressor instead of turbine. I guess you learn something new every day.
Howard;
I was just sitting back a having a good laugh, that's all
(Not to name names, but certain people should keep thier mouths shut if they don't know what the hell they are talking about)
I was just sitting back a having a good laugh, that's all
(Not to name names, but certain people should keep thier mouths shut if they don't know what the hell they are talking about)
Originally posted by: Roger
Howard;
I was just sitting back a having a good laugh, that's all
(Not to name names, but certain people should keep thier mouths shut if they don't know what the hell they are talking about)
Yah yah I got told, no need to rub it in.
you guys need to learn how "REV MATCH" when im about to race someone....say i'm in 4th gear and i need to get in the peak RPM torque and HP curve....while i'm in 4th i step on the clutch and gas the accelarator at the same...then quickly as the quick rev is higher, drop it down to 3rd and hammer it down like i;m on yo mama.
here's what i did...without losing any speed i quickly reved my car to a higher RPM band where my turbo will immedialty SPOOL so i dont get any turbo lag....from there i am at peak boost. by using the clutch for a quick rev all the strain of downshiting goes to clutch and flywheel. Better those 2 then the transmission itself.
On a cold cold night i've done 12 PSI without a boost controller when my car is only supposed to be boosting 9 PSI. The general rule of thumb is that for every PSI pushed you gain 9HP to the crank
here's what i did...without losing any speed i quickly reved my car to a higher RPM band where my turbo will immedialty SPOOL so i dont get any turbo lag....from there i am at peak boost. by using the clutch for a quick rev all the strain of downshiting goes to clutch and flywheel. Better those 2 then the transmission itself.
On a cold cold night i've done 12 PSI without a boost controller when my car is only supposed to be boosting 9 PSI. The general rule of thumb is that for every PSI pushed you gain 9HP to the crank
Which form is best of the world? Ideally low everyday fuel consumption and have the power when you need it such as passing or resisting gravity and thinning air while climbing a hill.
I might be misinformed, but forced induction seems like a great idea for high altitude driving since it can over come the thinning air by boosting the incoming air.
I might be misinformed, but forced induction seems like a great idea for high altitude driving since it can over come the thinning air by boosting the incoming air.
Doesn't work very well whe nyou're looknig at staging lights, does it?
That's why they put them on fighter planes in WWII.
Heh...never never EVER DO THAT when ur at the lights =) i only use that when im in motion and im just crusing along...and for some reason i have to hammer it down.
Zenmervolt
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That is NOT rev-matching. Rev-matching is matching the engine RPM to the transmission input shaft RPM when shifting. This allows smooth downshifts.
All you are desscribing is downshifting while revving past the boost threshold.
ZV
Zenmervolt
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A turbocharger does a better job of maintaining boost level at high altitudes (getting "more" boost from a turbo is as simple as waiting until later to open the wastegate, while getting more boost from a supercharger requires changing the pulley). A turbocharger is also more efficient, it adds less heat to the incoming air charge and it does not require engine power to drive it.
However, a supercharger is much more driveable because it is always producing boost so it cannot surprise a driver in the middle of a corner as a turbocharger can.
ZV
Evadman
Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
- Feb 18, 2001
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Wow. Lots of people talking out of their asses. Fun to watch
Lets look at them both:
Supercharger: A supercharger is belt driven in some way shape or form. There are 2 main types. Positive displacement, also called roots type, and centrifical blowers like paxton and vortech (the style notfred and laust have)
Roots superchargers use 2 rotors to suck in and compress air directly into the intake. They usually sit directly over the top of the engine (if it is a "V" type. a straight 4 will be off to one side obviously). They build power very linearly, meaning the higher you rev the more power you get. You get boost right off of idle, which helps torque and towing. There are 2 different flavors of these roots blowers, one that compresses only air, and one that compresses air and fuel together. For the most part, the ones availabe for the street all compress only air. The one on the 3800 is only air. Fuel is added at the intake valve. The other type is the ones you see on show cars, usually made by Weiland. A major model is the 6-71. This one has 2 carbs sitting on top of the blower, which is why this type usually needs a hood cutout. they are insanely tall. THe wieland's also have their own drive belt that is a good 2-3" wide. Laust has a roots type blower.
Centrifical superchargers are also driven by a belt, but they work a little differently then a roots type. A roots type spins relitively close to engine RPM. A centrifical one has an internal gear set which multiplies the rpm so the impeller is spinning in the 20,000-30,000 RPM range, and this spinning forces air to stick to the sides of the casing and increase it's pressure. Just like you will stick to a waill in the "gravitron". Again, speed builds with engine RPM, but unlike a roots type, they are easy to fit under a hood. Notfred has a centrifical blower.
Turbo's are powered by waht is usually waste energy, as ZM said. What happens is as the exaust leaves the engine, it is still heated, and moving quickly. A impeller is put in the way. one side is in the exaust stream, one is in the intake. The exaust gasses push on the impeller, which pushes on the intake air, which increases its pressure. Since you do not get any pressure buildup on the exaust side at low RPM's, you do not get any force on the impeller intake side. This is called "Turbo Lag". Basicly, you have an impeller which may weigh a pound. Now, to make boost that impeller has to get up to speed, which can exceed 50,000 RPM. Getting a 1 lb piece of steel spinning that fast is not easy, so you get a lag time before the boost comes on. Sometimes it can be all at once, where between 3000 and 3300 RPM the engine goes from 100 HP to 230 HP. This is hard to control some times. This is where dual and quad turbos came from. Dual turbos can have smaller impellers which do not take as much energy to spin, so you get less turbo lag, and the power comes on more gradualy.
intercoolers Are basicly radiators for the air charge. What happens is as you compress air, it heats. Double the pressure and you double the tempeature. The lower the tempeature, the more air you can stuff into an engine, and the more fuel you can burn, which makes more power. Both types of forced intake systems can benefit from intercoolers.
As for which is more reliable? They both are, expecialy if from the factory. The engine is made for forced induction, so it will have hardened valve seats and usually forged pistons. This makes it so the engine can handle the stress. Most stock NA engines can handle some boost, just keep it reasonable. 5 PSI is reasonable. 10 is not. 7 is streaching it. As notfred learned, you have to keep an eye on fuel as if you starve the engine, the kernel can actually burn hotter and melt holes in pistons and crack valve seats. Better to run rich than run lean.
Lets look at them both:
Supercharger: A supercharger is belt driven in some way shape or form. There are 2 main types. Positive displacement, also called roots type, and centrifical blowers like paxton and vortech (the style notfred and laust have)
Roots superchargers use 2 rotors to suck in and compress air directly into the intake. They usually sit directly over the top of the engine (if it is a "V" type. a straight 4 will be off to one side obviously). They build power very linearly, meaning the higher you rev the more power you get. You get boost right off of idle, which helps torque and towing. There are 2 different flavors of these roots blowers, one that compresses only air, and one that compresses air and fuel together. For the most part, the ones availabe for the street all compress only air. The one on the 3800 is only air. Fuel is added at the intake valve. The other type is the ones you see on show cars, usually made by Weiland. A major model is the 6-71. This one has 2 carbs sitting on top of the blower, which is why this type usually needs a hood cutout. they are insanely tall. THe wieland's also have their own drive belt that is a good 2-3" wide. Laust has a roots type blower.
Centrifical superchargers are also driven by a belt, but they work a little differently then a roots type. A roots type spins relitively close to engine RPM. A centrifical one has an internal gear set which multiplies the rpm so the impeller is spinning in the 20,000-30,000 RPM range, and this spinning forces air to stick to the sides of the casing and increase it's pressure. Just like you will stick to a waill in the "gravitron". Again, speed builds with engine RPM, but unlike a roots type, they are easy to fit under a hood. Notfred has a centrifical blower.
Turbo's are powered by waht is usually waste energy, as ZM said. What happens is as the exaust leaves the engine, it is still heated, and moving quickly. A impeller is put in the way. one side is in the exaust stream, one is in the intake. The exaust gasses push on the impeller, which pushes on the intake air, which increases its pressure. Since you do not get any pressure buildup on the exaust side at low RPM's, you do not get any force on the impeller intake side. This is called "Turbo Lag". Basicly, you have an impeller which may weigh a pound. Now, to make boost that impeller has to get up to speed, which can exceed 50,000 RPM. Getting a 1 lb piece of steel spinning that fast is not easy, so you get a lag time before the boost comes on. Sometimes it can be all at once, where between 3000 and 3300 RPM the engine goes from 100 HP to 230 HP. This is hard to control some times. This is where dual and quad turbos came from. Dual turbos can have smaller impellers which do not take as much energy to spin, so you get less turbo lag, and the power comes on more gradualy.
intercoolers Are basicly radiators for the air charge. What happens is as you compress air, it heats. Double the pressure and you double the tempeature. The lower the tempeature, the more air you can stuff into an engine, and the more fuel you can burn, which makes more power. Both types of forced intake systems can benefit from intercoolers.
As for which is more reliable? They both are, expecialy if from the factory. The engine is made for forced induction, so it will have hardened valve seats and usually forged pistons. This makes it so the engine can handle the stress. Most stock NA engines can handle some boost, just keep it reasonable. 5 PSI is reasonable. 10 is not. 7 is streaching it. As notfred learned, you have to keep an eye on fuel as if you starve the engine, the kernel can actually burn hotter and melt holes in pistons and crack valve seats. Better to run rich than run lean.
Originally posted by: Roger
Howard;
I was just sitting back a having a good laugh, that's all
(Not to name names, but certain people should keep thier mouths shut if they don't know what the hell they are talking about)
Never argue with idiots, they'll drop you to their level and beat you with experience.
Similar feel, but not quite as sudden. Also it normally happens at around the same RPM's, so you can "predict" it more. Doesn't matter as much anyways though because if you're doing the corner correct you should have the RPM's high enough to keep the boost on the whole time.
Originally posted by: Evadman
Wow. Lots of people talking out of their asses. Fun to watch
Lets look at them both:
Supercharger: << I thought I covered this? >>
Roots superchargers They build power very linearly, meaning the higher you rev the more power you get. << This is true for all engines.
Centrifical <<Centrifugal?>>superchargers are also driven by a belt, but they work a little differently then a roots type. A roots type spins relitively close <<Does your supercharger have a hydraulic linkage?
Turbo's are powered by waht is usually waste energy, as ZM said. What happens is as the exaust leaves the engine, it is still heated, and moving quickly. A impeller <<turbine wheel?>> is put in the way. one side is in the exaust stream, one is in the intake. The exaust gasses push on the impeller , which pushes on the intake air <<the compressor wheel does this>> , which increases its pressure. Since you do not get any pressure buildup on the exaust side at low RPM's, you do not get any force <<force?>> on the impeller intake side. This is called "Turbo Lag". Basicly, you have an impeller which may weigh a pound. Now, to make boost that impeller has to get up to speed, which can exceed 50,000 RPM <<usually over 100K RPM>> . Getting a 1 lb piece of steel <<not always steel>> spinning that fast is not easy, so you get a lag time before the boost comes on.
intercoolers: <<AFTERcoolers, but this mistake is common>> The lower the tempeature, the more air you can stuff into an engine, <<because air becomes denser, meaning more O2 is contained in a given volume>> and the more fuel you can burn, which makes more power.
Sorry, I got bored. I don't even know if what I put makes sense.
BTW, you might want to explain twin-screw SCs too.
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