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carop

Member
Jul 9, 2012
91
7
71
A desktop roadmap doesn't contradict a mobile roadmap. These are different products. It's no secret that desktop isn't intel's priority.

Any roadmap has three fundamental pieces: reality, probability, and fantasy.

As far as the reality and probability stories are concerned, I could enumerate several reasons as to why the 14 nm node is proving to be difficult both for the foundries and Intel based on publicly available information.

If there is any way to prove out a new process, it is with memory or programmable logic, mostly uniform structures that can be replicated easily. As such, I would prefer to watch the Altera and Intel deal for their 14 nm node. There is also some basis in their earlier cooperation on "Stellarton", a primitive attempt at an Atom core and some FPGA gates in a single package.

I personally expect the first part on their 14 nm node will be an Altera FPGA - sampled, count them, there is one.
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,715
2,012
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Any roadmap has three fundamental pieces: reality, probability, and fantasy.

As far as the reality and probability stories are concerned, I could enumerate several reasons as to why the 14 nm node is proving to be difficult both for the foundries and Intel based on publicly available information.

If there is any way to prove out a new process, it is with memory or programmable logic, mostly uniform structures that can be replicated easily. As such, I would prefer to watch the Altera and Intel deal for their 14 nm node. There is also some basis in their earlier cooperation on "Stellarton", a primitive attempt at an Atom core and some FPGA gates in a single package.

I personally expect the first part on their 14 nm node will be an Altera FPGA - sampled, count them, there is one.

I'll bet you $1,000 that Intel's first commercially available 14nm part will be "Broadwell" and it will be available in 2014.
 

dealcorn

Senior member
May 28, 2011
247
4
76
I'll bet you $1,000 that Intel's first commercially available 14nm part will be "Broadwell" and it will be available in 2014.

Intel's subcontracted foundry business is secondary to CPU's even if the margins are appealing. Intel is introducing 14 nm with it's low power process and the greatest opportunity to increase revenues will come from the Atom line where Intel sees fresh markets to dominate and Street pleasing incremental revenue. That is why I think Atom will lead the introduction at 14 nm. It is helpful that Atom, however branded, is known for technical leadership.

On the desktop (embedded), Broadwell lacks credible competition. In mobile markets, Broadwell only furthers Intel's domination of markets it already owns. Atom owns the upside and should be selected to introduce 14 nm.
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,715
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Really, this site is teeming with people on Intel's payroll.

Was this site teeming with people on AMD's payroll back when they were smacking Intel silly? ;)

No. What you are seeing is that people have a positive view on the firm that provides the best product. Right now, Intel in PCs/servers and Qualcomm in mobile. The AMD/Nvidia debate over in the GPU forums is a much closer one, so you have a 50/50 split of fans for each.
 

scannall

Golden Member
Jan 1, 2012
1,960
1,678
136
Really, this site is teeming with people on Intel's payroll.

I'm not sure they are all on Intel's payroll. A lot of people have a tendency to look at big companies like sports teams. Which I guess is the root of the trolling that goes on.

I just use what's best for the job. My laptop has an AMD A8 (Trinity). And my HTPC uses an A4. Both those are great places for AMD. And I use Intel for my gaming rig. And that's fine as well.

I am glad to see Apple using TSMC. While they could afford to build their own foundry, I don't think that would be the best idea for their business.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
146
106

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
64
91
Nope, its coming in H1 2014. Volume production starts in Q4 this year.

The only question is if Broadwell will be mobile only, or also come to the desktop.

I wonder why the delay (or outright skipping) of broadwell on desktop? Maybe they can't get high enough clockspeeds to make it compelling versus Haswell?
 

chernobog

Member
Jun 25, 2013
79
0
0
Broadwell was never meant to be for desktop, I know it since 2012 after some site got a leak from Intel. Broadwell will come to mobile in 2014, maybe.

Irish 14nm fab had problems and it should be ready in Q4 2013.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
9
81
I wonder why the delay (or outright skipping) of broadwell on desktop? Maybe they can't get high enough clockspeeds to make it compelling versus Haswell?

Could ask where the Clarkdale 4C8T i7s were. I think the mindset w/Broadwell is an extension to that mindset, not necessarily a problem with the process or processor.
 

Khato

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
1,288
367
136
I wonder why the delay (or outright skipping) of broadwell on desktop? Maybe they can't get high enough clockspeeds to make it compelling versus Haswell?

How much has the desktop market segment cared about Intel's improved integrated graphics? IVB was a peculiarity in that it provided as much CPU performance improvement as it did on a new process (my guess would be it was stuff that didn't quite make the cut for SNB). If BDW is just a straight up die shrink of HSW on the CPU side then all that it has to offer is the new process tech and better integrated graphics... neither of which matter much at all for the traditional desktop market. (Which is just a way of saying yeah, I have no expectation that we're going to see higher clock speeds... mostly because there's no reason to.)

Makes far more financial sense to continue milking the 22nm fabs on the desktop side while using the expensive 14nm capacity for the more lucrative mobile market. (Well, or the markets where the process lead converts into a tangible advantage over the competition.)
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
16,825
7,268
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I wonder why the delay (or outright skipping) of broadwell on desktop? Maybe they can't get high enough clockspeeds to make it compelling versus Haswell?

There are a bunch of reasons, but the biggest (to me at least) is that Mobile Broadwell includes the chipset on package for all models; maybe it is deeper integrated than Haswell's BGA models since they are moving towards going ondie on Skylake. Perhaps they found it too difficult to do an external chipset which supports Haswell and Broadwell due to this, and didn't want to sell LGA models which only supported one or the other.
 

podspi

Golden Member
Jan 11, 2011
1,982
102
106
Could ask where the Clarkdale 4C8T i7s were. I think the mindset w/Broadwell is an extension to that mindset, not necessarily a problem with the process or processor.

Bingo. This is not really something that has never happened before. It just means we are going to have to wait a long time for a decent desktop upgrade...
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
9
81
One other thing to keep in mind is that Intel's highest end 55W mobile CPUs can turbo very close to as high as their highest end desktop ones. I don't think they can afford being frequency limited in their mobile offerings.
 

carop

Member
Jul 9, 2012
91
7
71
Got any proof of that?

No, I do not.

However, I have an idle idea of running an "Authorship Attribution" program. There are good quality freely available computer-assisted authorship attribution programs.

This is just a hypothesis, and I have done nothing to verify it as I do not have a dog in this race.

No programs have been downloaded no training has been carried out. Just an idle idea.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,362
136
Bingo. This is not really something that has never happened before. It just means we are going to have to wait a long time for a decent desktop upgrade...

We had 2C 4T 32nm CPUs with Core i3, here with BDW we will not have a single 16nm 14nm CPU part for the Desktop untill Q2 2015 with Skylake.

First 22nm on Q2-2012
First Desktop 16nm 14nm on Q2 2015
 
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ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
146
106
We had 2C 4T 32nm CPUs with Core i3, here with BDW we will not have a single 16nm CPU part for the Desktop untill Q2 2015 with Skylake.

First 22nm on Q2-2012
First Desktop 16nm on Q2 2015

Skylake is 14nm, not 16.
 

meloz

Senior member
Jul 8, 2008
320
0
76
How much has the desktop market segment cared about Intel's improved integrated graphics?

As a linux user, I deeply care about Intel's iGPU improvements. I cannot rely on binary blobs from nvidia or AMD. I also care about the reduced platform power consumption -whether at idle or load- since my desktop stays on 24X7.

But there are not enough of mine kind for Intel to bother with a desktop Broadwell, apparently. :colbert:
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,448
5,831
136
No, I do not.

However, I have an idle idea of running an "Authorship Attribution" program. There are good quality freely available computer-assisted authorship attribution programs.

This is just a hypothesis, and I have done nothing to verify it as I do not have a dog in this race.

No programs have been downloaded no training has been carried out. Just an idle idea.

So you're just throwing around [malarkey]. Nice.

Go get some proof, or stop making damaging allegations.

That will be enough, you two. We, the mods, will worry about who people are and their actions. Other than reporting posts they need not be your concerns. And witch hunts will not be tolerated here.
-ViRGE
 
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