Trying to install Vista and XP on same rig

[2112Rush]

I was told I could put two OS on the same rig but different HDD. When I put the disc in for XP the option to install is not lit up so I can't click on it. I'm sure there is a way around that but I don't know how to do it. I'm still new at all this.

 

[boomerang]

More information please.

Are you booting from the XP disk?

Is Vista already installed?

New computer, new HD, OS already installed that you intend to overwrite?

Give some more detail on what it is you're doing.

 

[law9933]

I'm not a pro but XP needs to be installed first, I assume Vista already is. Not sure if it works-what if you disconnect the Vista HD, then install XP on the other HD-reconnect the Vista HD????????

 

[2112Rush]

I am booting from the XP disc.

Vista is already installed.

It is my first build. Two new HD's. I have some older programs and a scanner that won't work with Vista. My printer just has basic features.

I don't want to overwrite Vista. Just have two OS on two different HD's.

I tried installing Virtual PC but I'm getting a Windows Installer error and it won't install.

I was told I could have two OS as long as they were on different drives or separate partitions. I figure since I have two HD's, I could put XP on the other one.

I guess unplugging the HD Vista is on would work. But then I'd have to try and get in there and unplug it and try to get it plugged back in. It's a PITA trying to get those cables back in with all the other cables in the way. I was hoping for an easier fix.

 

[Trashman]

If both Drives are SATA drives, you could try going in Bios and set the 2nd hard drive to boot as master than install XP on that drive, than you'd have change boot order for whatever OS you want to use.

Never done it like that, XP should have been installed first to do it correctly, but in theory that example above should work for you, just as you know which drive is which.

edit--Maybe it would be wise to unplug power from your Vista drive during the install of XP, after that than change boot order for whatever drive you wanna use.

 

[2112Rush]

They are both SATA drives. But then would I have to change the order every time I booted up? Doesn't it ask which one you want to use at start up?

That would be the easier option though. And it wouldn't be that big of a deal to change the BIOS each time. Just a little annoying.

 

[boomerang]

You can dual boot and have Vista installed first. I did it here for similar reasons. (Poor planning on my part, actually)

Google "dual boot Vista XP" and you'll find tons of tutorials on this both with Vista installed first and XP installed first. As was said, the "correct" way to dual boot is to always install the older OS first.

I'm confused as to why you cannot install XP though. I would disconnect the HD with Vista on it and try again. I think seeing the HD with Vista on it is confusing the XP install.

You may need to wipe that second drive for the XP install to work. Vista may have written to the boot sector and that's what's borking the install. I've kind of got my ass hanging out in the wind with that last statement. I may not have it worded correctly but I believe my thinking is not far off.

Google EasyBCD. After you get both installed, it will make your dual boot an easy task. I get presented two options at boot-up, Vista or XP. You can set one or the other as the default and control how much time you get to make a choice. Free too.

 

[2112Rush]

I'll give Google a try and do some reading.

I'm trying to avoid disconnecting the HD with Vista if I can.

The second HD is basically just copies of folders from the main HD. I think I just copied the whole drive and put it as a backup. So there are probably Vista files from the install on it too.

See what happens when you don't know what you're doing. :laugh:

Thanks for the help.

 

[2112Rush]

Well I knew this would happen. Nothing is ever easy. :|

I followed the directions. Created a partition. Get to the screen where it says press ENTER to install XP and the keyboard won't work. It's a USB and for some reason won't work on that screen. I tried plugging in an older one right next to the mouse port and that doesn't work either. Any ideas why?

 

[boomerang]

I should have made it clear that I meant to disconnect the Vista drive just temporarily during the XP install.

Did you reboot after plugging in the other keyboard? It's not like USB. It won't be recognized when just plugging it in.

 

[2112Rush]

Not your fault. You did make it clear. I Googled like you said and was following the directions. Here's the link I tried. http://www.raymond.cc/blog/arc...vista-installed-first/

There was another site but this one looked easier. Until I got to the setup part.

I didn't reboot because I was in the middle of the wholes mess. It was getting late and I was getting aggravated. I'll try it again. I just don't understand why the keyboard wouldn't work. It wasn't like I was installing new drivers or anything like that. Really frustrating.

I did see a potential problem. The other site I read says that when you install XP it will be on drive "E". And that could cause problems when installing some things. I guess it has to do with file paths. My second HD is already "E". So would XP be something else and can I leave it at that? Or will XP take "E" and my other drive will get changed which could cause problems with those paths?

 

[boomerang]

Have only one HD connected in the system during the XP install and you should be fine. XP will install to C: if there's only one drive available. Also, if you have a card reader in the system, have that disconnected too. That will mess up drive letters also.

If my advice sounds not correct, post what drives you have in the system and what is on them. I'm a little confused as to what you actually have that you're working with.

 

[2112Rush]

I'm thinking that unplugging may be the only way to go.

I have Floppy/Card Reader (A: )

DVD RW (D: )
DVD?CD RW (F: )
HDD (C: )
HDD (E: )

Vista is on the "C" drive.

If I just unplug that drive and the card reader XP should install to "E" correct?

I won't have any issues when I plug the other drive back in?

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: 2112Rush
I'm thinking that unplugging may be the only way to go.

I have Floppy/Card Reader (A: )

DVD RW (D: )
DVD?CD RW (F: )
HDD (C: )
HDD (E: )

Vista is on the "C" drive.

If I just unplug that drive and the card reader XP should install to "E" correct?
Yes, it will have to as that will be the only HD seen, understand? But when booting into XP, the XP install will be on C:, which is exactly what you want.

I won't have any issues when I plug the other drive back in?

No, you shouldn't. As I may have said, before booting with all drives connected, I would go into my BIOS and specify the Vista drive as my boot drive. You have to designate one or the other of the HD's as boot drives. Choose the Vista drive. Then install EasyBCD (it's free) and use it to allow you to alter the file that controls the boot into Vista so that you may also boot from the drive that has XP on it. This way you will not have to go into your BIOS to change the boot order to boot from the OS you want at that time. You should read up on EasyBCD at their site. They have a lot of documentation that may be helpful both to get you up and running and to get a better understanding of what you're doing here.

I don't want to confuse you further, but in Vista, the XP drive should show as your E: drive. If it doesn't, don't panic! First off it doesn't really matter what drive letter it gets and secondly it can be changed. The same goes for in XP. Your Vista drive may show up as E:, or another letter. It doesn't matter and it can be changed. For that matter your Optical drives can be changed also.

You cannot damage your Vista install by having the drive disconnected when installing XP. This seems to me to be your big concern. Take it slow and easy if you want. Install XP, boot into it at the end of the install and make note of drive letters. Shut down and connect your card reader. Then see what your drive letters are at. Repeat the process with the XP drive disconnected and only the Vista drive connected. You'll get a better feeling for what's going on. It will make you feel more in control and give you time to get a handle on what is going on.

I really, really hope I'm not making this more confusing to you.

 

[2112Rush]

You're not confusing me at all. I was just trying to avoid having to unplug things, but it looks like that's the only way to go. I thought everything got installed to the C: drive. That's why Vista is there. On other computers I've seen they were always C:. I guess because they only had one drive. But I thought that was the default. Every program I've installed so far has wanted to go to C:. Why are you saying Vista should show on E:?

Will it matter if I have Vista on one HD and XP on the other? Is EasyBCD necessary? I thought that when you start up it will give you the option to start either OS. I normally keep the PC on sleep so it would be on Vista. I would restart if I wanted XP and it should ask. Correct? Is that what EasyBCD will do?

I'm not worried about anything happening to the Vista install. I just don't want any issues like I had with the keyboard when I try this. I know something won't work right. It's just my luck. I was actually surprised when the thing worked right after put it all together. :laugh:

Sorry for all the dumb questions. I appreciate the help. I just hope your not getting too annoyed with all stupid newb questions.

 

[boomerang]

Why are you saying Vista should show on E:?
The OS (Vista, XP, 98, ME, whatever) is going to assign a drive letter to every drive in your system. There's a method to it. I'm going to simplify it a little.
A Floppy drive will be A
The HD that contains your OS will be C
Your Optical drive wil be D
Now add a 2nd HD, what will it be? What's the next available letter - it will be E. But what if instead of the HD, it had been a second Optical drive? The second Optical would be E - it's the next letter available.
So, you have Vista and it's C. You're going to disconnect that drive and install XP on a second drive. During that install, XP will not know about the drive with Vista on it. So XP will be on C. Now here's where it gets interesting. You boot to Vista with the XP drive also connected. Remember how I explained how drive letters are assigned? Both the Vista HD and the XP HD can't be assigned C. Vista will assign the XP HD the next available letter. ****The drive letter assigned to the XP drive is only in effect when within Vista**** Conversely, If you boot into XP, the Vista drive will be assigned the next available drive letter. When you're in Vista, Vista will be C. When you're in XP, XP will be C. But you can't have two C drives. The HD with the other OS on it will be assigned a different drive letter.

Will it matter if I have Vista on one HD and XP on the other?
No, it's preferrable actually.

Is EasyBCD necessary?
No, you can boot from whatever drive you wish by changing the boot order in your BIOS if you wish.

I thought that when you start up it will give you the option to start either OS. I normally keep the PC on sleep so it would be on Vista. I would restart if I wanted XP and it should ask. Correct?
Yes

Is that what EasyBCD will do?
Yes

I'm not getting annoyed, but at this point I've helped you all I can. I know of no other way to explain all this. If you have more questions, I hope someone will jump in with different, or better explanations.

Sometimes the best way to learn is just to dig in and have at it. Good Luck to you!

 

[Old Hippie]

Hey Boomerang, this :beer:'s for you. :thumbsup:

 

[bruceb]

It sounds like the reason you can't do it, is the XP CD doesn't recognize the USB Keyboard.
If so, there are two things you can try:

1): Enter BIOS and be sure USB Legacy Emulation is Enabled

2): Use a PS2 keyboard if you can during setup

3): Try to navigate the setup menu with a mouse.

You could also rebuild the xp cd so it has the usb driver on it
when it firsts boots up.

 

[2112Rush]

Boomerang, you have been a huge help. I'm starting to get it. The only only thing I'm wondering is if the drive letters keep changing every time I switch between Vista and XP, will that affect any programs I have? If I install something on Vista and try to run it in XP will the file path not be correct? Or since the file path should be C: something, it should work because whatever OS I'm using will be C:. Am I correct about that?

bruceb: Why would the XP cd not recognize the keyboard? It's the one that came with my old computer that had ME on it. When I upgraded to XP it installed fine and the keyboard worked fine. Is it the MB + XP combo that maybe doesn't work?

I don't remember seeing a Legacy Emulation section in the BIOS. I did see a USB keyboard. That is enabled and it works. I didn't try with the mouse because I thought they didn't work in those screens.

 

[boomerang]

You are not going to be able to run a program installed in Vista from within XP and vice-versa. You will have to install it in both Vista and XP.

All programs will then be installed to C and will run with no drive letter issues.

And please, let's not confuse him talking about programs that do not write to the registry.

 

[2112Rush]

Yes please don't. :laugh:

I will give it a shot and see what happens. Thanks again for the help.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: boomerang
You are not going to be able to run a program installed in Vista from within XP and vice-versa. You will have to install it in both Vista and XP.

All programs will then be installed to C and will run with no drive letter issues.

And please, let's not confuse him talking about programs that do not write to the registry.

Umm, this may work for some programs but I'm told it will not work for all programs, i.e. installing the program in both OSs to the same location. I'm not sure I'm interpreting you correctly or that you said what you meant to say. If OS1 is on C: and OS2 is on E: (could be D:, doesn't matter, but since you are talking about E:, I made it E: ), when you are booted to OS1, and go to install a program, the default installation location is very likely to be C:\Program Files. When you are booting to OS2, the default installation location is very likely to be E:\Program Files. So, when you are booted to OS2, you can accept the default location (most program installations give you the option of changing the installation location from the default, but not all), or you can change it to, say, C:\Program Files, and that's what Boomerang appears to be suggesting. Like I say, I'm told that this is an invitation to trouble with some applications (Visual FoxPro, I'm told, by an expert, for example).

Thus, I'm in the habit now of installing applications from within a particular OS to a location specific to that OS (could be anywhere, any drive, as long as it's path is unique to that installation), in the interests of insuring that I won't have difficulties. HD space has been getting cheaper and cheaper and I'm far from cramped in that regard.

Myself, I don't install applications to the OS partition in most cases.

Applications that don't write to the registry can presumably be accessed by any of your installed OS's, and in fact be run by them without reinstalling, but just creating shortcuts to the main EXE of the application. There, I stuck my toe in that confusion referred to above. Myself, I often don't know which applications write to the registry and which do. I do know in a case or two. How does one discover that? I hope what I have said here doesn't create more confusion that it eliminates.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: boomerang
You are not going to be able to run a program installed in Vista from within XP and vice-versa. You will have to install it in both Vista and XP.

All programs will then be installed to C and will run with no drive letter issues.

And please, let's not confuse him talking about programs that do not write to the registry.

Umm, this may work for some programs but I'm told it will not work for all programs, i.e. installing the program in both OSs to the same location. I'm not sure I'm interpreting you correctly or that you said what you meant to say. If OS1 is on C: and OS2 is on E: (could be D:, doesn't matter, but since you are talking about E:, I made it E: ), when you are booted to OS1, and go to install a program, the default installation location is very likely to be C:\Program Files. When you are booting to OS2, the default installation location is very likely to be E:\Program Files. So, when you are booted to OS2, you can accept the default location (most program installations give you the option of changing the installation location from the default, but not all), or you can change it to, say, C:\Program Files, and that's what Boomerang appears to be suggesting. Like I say, I'm told that this is an invitation to trouble with some applications (Visual FoxPro, I'm told, by an expert, for example).

Thus, I'm in the habit now of installing applications from within a particular OS to a location specific to that OS (could be anywhere, any drive, as long as it's path is unique to that installation), in the interests of insuring that I won't have difficulties. HD space has been getting cheaper and cheaper and I'm far from cramped in that regard.

Myself, I don't install applications to the OS partition in most cases.

Applications that don't write to the registry can presumably be accessed by any of your installed OS's, and in fact be run by them without reinstalling, but just creating shortcuts to the main EXE of the application. There, I stuck my toe in that confusion referred to above. Myself, I often don't know which applications write to the registry and which do. I do know in a case or two. How does one discover that? I hope what I have said here doesn't create more confusion that it eliminates.

I'm sure the OP won't be a bit confused by your post. If you've read through any of this, you'd realize this guy is a newb. He needs to know the basics, not the latest on quantum physics.

I'll turn over the help he requires to you now. Don't let either of us down.

 

[2112Rush]

Originally posted by: Muse

Myself, I don't install applications to the OS partition in most cases.

I wasn't on planning to use any partitions. In one of tutorials I saw they say to create a partition to put the new OS in. Vista isn't on a partition and I was going to put XP on the other HD with no partition.

Since I have the HD space I was going to install programs to both. Just to be sure things would work.

I don't want to have to start messing with the registry. That will surely cause me big problems.

 

[2112Rush]

So I unplug the drive with Vista on it and start it up. When it's posting I get a "BOOTMGR is missing" message. I put in the XP disc expecting it to give me the option of booting from the CD but it just keeps saying "BOOTMGR is missing CTRL+ALT+DEL to restart". The BIOS is set up to boot from the CD first then the HD.

What am I doing wrong now?

EDIT

I went here: http://neosmart.net/wiki/displ...talling+XP+After+Vista
and tried doing it the way they said but of course ran in to some problems.

I'm not even sure I need to load SATA drivers but hit F6 anyway. It asked for a disc for the drivers. I don't know where they would be so hit enter to continue. The I get a message saying installation stopped to avoid damaging the HD. It says to run CHKDSK /F. I tried running the program by typing CHKDSK in the search bar. The program icon is there, I click it and nothing happens. I got it to run eventually but the window xlosed when it was done and I didn't see the results. I didn't see it have any errors while it was going though.

I'm thinking of just formatting the drive to get rid of Vista, installing XP and then installing Vista after XP. It's a little more work but it should be easier than what I'm trying to do now.