Trying to get my head around Apple's UI patents.

[Sho'Nuff]

If 2005 seems more accurate then how could it predate Apple's patent by 'several years'?

Because he is looking at the patent issue date and not the filing date.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Because the USPTO doesn't actually research the applications.

Here is a list of just a few of the documents considered by the Examiner during examination of the slide to unlock patent:

US5465084
US5559961
US5677710
US5821933
US5907327
US6151208
US6160555
US6192478
US6249606
US6323846
US6347290
US6421453
US6570557
US6573883
US6633310
US6677932
US6720860
US6735695
US7124433
US7151843
US7174462
US7263670
US7286063
US7395506
US7627904
US20010012022
US20020015024
US20020191029
US20020196274
US20030142138
US20040030934
US20040034801
US20040085351
US20040088568
US20040230843
US20040250138
US20040260955
US20040268267
US20050050477
US20050060554
US20050079896
US20050212760
US20050216862
US20050248542
US20050253817
US20050264833
US20060031776
US20060161870
US20060174339
US20060267955
US20080034292
US20080034307
US20080055263
US20080055269
US20080072172
US20080082934
US20080094371
US20080122796
US20080134170
US20090128581

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Bingo. Apple isn't interested in licensing or a temporary injunction. Their goal is to exclude their competition.

Well sooprise sooprise! Imagine that. A fancy pants high tech company seeking to exclude others from making, using, selling, offering for sale, importing, or exporting technology that they allege is within the scope of one of their patent claims, when patents by law grant the patentee the exclusive right to make, use, sell, offer for sale, import, or export the claimed invention.

 

[zsdersw]

soxfan clearly has a lot to gain by the patent wars... so I wouldn't regard his position as being at all objective.

 

[BladeVenom]

Apple steals other people's old ideas, claim they invented them by patenting them, and then tries to stop the competition who has a superior product. Basically Apple is scum.

 

[bearxor]

Here is a list of just a few of the documents considered by the Examiner during examination of the slide to unlock patent:

Issuing a patent is just as much a judgment of the examiners opinion as a judge's ruling is. That's why blatant statements like "that's because the USPTO doesn't research." are stupid. Just because you don't agree with the opinion of the examiner doesn't mean it was wrong. It was just the examiners opinion that this this was a significantly derivative work that deserved its own protection.

People like him aren't going to be happy until everyone agrees with his opinion. If this same judge had upheld the patents he'd be the first one in here talking about how stupid the judge is and how they're wrong. If the same judge agrees with his opinion, it was because it was, obviously, the only CORRECT opinion. There's no room for critical thought there, where he can look at both sides of an argument objectively and make a decision without bringing personal bias in to it.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

soxfan clearly has a lot to gain by the patent wars... so I wouldn't regard his position as being at all objective.

Two points:

1. I don't practice patent litigation. Rather, I practice patent prosecution and client counseling. I do not benefit from "patent wars" per se. I do benefit from the patent system as a whole, as it allows me to make a living. Much like you benefit from the legal structure that allows your employer to operate.

2. I have been completely honest about my position, which I think is quite objective. Like many on this board, I do not favor patents on software per se. But I do favor strong patent rights because history has shown that strong patent rights encourage innovation. I've also acknowledged that there are flaw in the current system that need to be addressed.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Apple steals other people's old ideas, claim they invented them by patenting them, and then tries to stop the competition who has a superior product. Basically Apple is scum.

On what basis do you allege that Apple "stole" other people's ideas? Is it not possible that they independently developed those ideas, without knowledge of a third parties activities in that area? That happens a lot more than you would think in the information age.

 

[zsdersw]

Is it not possible that they independently developed those ideas, without knowledge of a third parties activities in that area?

Would you ask that if it was a company other than Apple?

 

[Mopetar]

soxfan clearly has a lot to gain by the patent wars... so I wouldn't regard his position as being at all objective.

Would you ask that if it was a company other than Apple?

Yes, but his position makes him much more knowledgable than any other person on this forum as far as I'm aware. He's also been on point and has presented his views and other information well.

If you don't agree with him (or the current legal system) that's one thing, but it's another to start calling him out like that. Attack the message, not the messenger.

 

[zsdersw]

If you don't agree with him (or the current legal system) that's one thing, but it's another to start calling him out like that. Attack the message, not the messenger.

I'll ask whatever honest questions I want to ask... and don't particularly care if you like it or not.

 

[cheezy321]

I'll ask whatever honest questions I want to ask... and don't particularly care if you like it or not.

You can ask whatever questions you want, but dont sit here and act like you are any less objective than he is. You have a very obvious and clear bias in this forum. It shines like a beacon in every post you write. Soxfan has a vast knowledge of the industry. You dont. You might not agree with him but you can at least acknowledge he knows a hell of a lot more about the industry than the armchair lawyer you attempt to be.

 

[zsdersw]

You can ask whatever questions you want, but dont sit here and act like you are any less objective than he is. You have a very obvious and clear bias in this forum. It shines like a beacon in every post you write. Soxfan has a vast knowledge of the industry. You dont. You might not agree with him but you can at least acknowledge he knows a hell of a lot more about the industry than the armchair lawyer you attempt to be.

I never made any claims to either objectivity or being a lawyer.

You have a very obvious and clear bias in this forum as well.. and it shines like a beacon in every post you write.

 

[cheezy321]

I never made any claims to either objectivity or being a lawyer.

You have a very obvious and clear bias in this forum as well.. and it shines like a beacon in every post you write.

You seem to attack the messenger quite a bit without ever addressing the message. Just pointing it out. Maybe you can think about that before your next post.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Would you ask that if it was a company other than Apple?

Not sure if I understand what you are getting at with this question. It is often the case that multiple companies (or individuals) invent the same thing. When there is a problem that needs fixing, research can and does often lead to the same conclusion. That does not mean that one party stole the other's invention, or that the solution was obvious.

And for the record, I do not represent Apple. I have represented several companies that have been on the pointy end of Apple's patent stick.

Edit: If the goal of your question is to somehow suggest that I an apple fanboy, I'm not. I do own a few of their products (iphone, ipad), but would gladly purchase another product that meets my needs (or rather, the needs of my family) better. Apple's products are for the most part "idiot proof," which means that they are perfect for me. Not because I don't understand how to use a more complex machine, because I do. But rather because Apple's products don't require me to fix something every time another member of my family uses them.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

I'll ask whatever honest questions I want to ask... and don't particularly care if you like it or not.

I don't mind answering questions, or having a sprited debate on the subject of patent law. I teach patent law part time, so exchanges similar to those we are having on this forum are not new to me.

 

[BenSkywalker]

A fancy pants high tech company seeking to exclude others from making, using, selling, offering for sale, importing, or exporting technology that they allege is within the scope of one of their patent claims, when patents by law grant the patentee the exclusive right to make, use, sell, offer for sale, import, or export the claimed invention.

Patent law excludes companies from patenting anything someone else invented, produced and sold prior to their application as it stands today.

Objective?

You don't come off as approaching that end of the spectrum.

 

[zsdersw]

Not sure if I understand what you are getting at with this question. It is often the case that multiple companies (or individuals) invent the same thing. When there is a problem that needs fixing, research can and does often lead to the same conclusion. That does not mean that one party stole the other's invention, or that the solution was obvious.

And for the record, I do not represent Apple. I have represented several companies that have been on the pointy end of Apple's patent stick.

Edit: If the goal of your question is to somehow suggest that I an apple fanboy, I'm not. I do own a few of their products (iphone, ipad), but would gladly purchase another product that meets my needs (or rather, the needs of my family) better. Apple's products are for the most part "idiot proof," which means that they are perfect for me. Not because I don't understand how to use a more complex machine, because I do. But rather because Apple's products don't require me to fix something every time another member of my family uses them.

What I'm getting at is... if people were saying that a company other than Apple was stealing other people's ideas, would you still ask the question: "Is it not possible that they independently developed those ideas, without knowledge of a third parties activities in that area?"

The bold section of your post strikes me as naive. As someone who does and has been doing large-scale IT deployment and support for 15 years the belief that Apple's products don't require fixing as much or are more friendly for a multi-user environment is laughable. There are different problems and issues, not less or more. My peers in environments that are exclusively Apple have the same staffing levels and workloads that I do.

 

[zsdersw]

You seem to attack the messenger quite a bit without ever addressing the message. Just pointing it out. Maybe you can think about that before your next post.

I post what I choose to post. To hell with anyone who has a problem with it. Just pointing it out. Maybe you can become less of an Apple shill. It's possible, I guess.. even though it's not likely.

 

[Phynaz]

The bold section of your post strikes me as naive. As someone who does and has been doing large-scale IT deployment and support for 15 years the belief that Apple's products don't require fixing as much or are more friendly for a multi-user environment is laughable. There are different problems and issues, not less or more. My peers in environments that are exclusively Apple have the same staffing levels and workloads that I do.

Notice he said family, not corporate?

It's true. I had my Neighbor buy a Macbook a year ago because I tired of supporting them. Instead of the weekly support visits I received one phone call in the past year.

 

[zsdersw]

Notice he said family, not corporate?

It's true. I Had my Neighbor buy a Macbook a year ago. Instead of the weekly support visits I received one phone call in the past year.

No it's not. People at work have home computers they sometimes ask me about... and I get as many Mac/Apple questions as I do PC questions.

 

[Phynaz]

Ok, it's not true for you.

It is for us.

 

[zsdersw]

Ok, it's not true for you.

It is for us.

And it's not true for friends of mine in my profession. It's not true for us.. not just me.

 

[cheezy321]

And it's not true for friends of mine in my profession. It's not true for us.. not just me.

Its true for me. Its true for all of my friends, and the friends in my profession.

 

[Ns1]

No it's not. People at work have home computers they sometimes ask me about... and I get as many Mac/Apple questions as I do PC questions.

To which the response should always be "What did they say when you took it to the apple store?"