Trying to decide on a new Processor - 4800+, 185, or FX-60?

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: tallman45
180 cannot that is for certain, is well noted that it is not an Overclocker, may forums mention this deficiency in the 180

I don't know what forums you read, but you might want to see what people who actually know how to overclock do with 180's, unless you don't think that 3.1 Ghz with a newer stepping is very good: link #1.

I got my Opty 180 last week so far I have it running stable on air with this setup

Opty 180 Denmark 2.4GHz 2x1MB L2Cache Socket939 @ 257fsb, 3080Mhz, v1.45 XP-90c Heatsink, Vantec Tornado 92mm Fan
G.SKILL Extreme Series 2 x 1GB DDR 500 @ 257mhz 3.4.4.8 v2.7 1T
BFG Geforce 7800GTX @ 490/1390 Mhz, ZALMAN VF900 VGA Cooling Fan/Heatsink
DFI LANPARTY nF4 SLI-DR, PC Power & Cooling 510 SLI-PFC, WD Raptor 74GB Serial ATA150

link #2

There are others, but not that many, since most overclockers spend their money on their motherboards, cooling, and RAM, then see how high they can get the cheaper chips, like the 165's or 170's.

 

[tallman45]

Lets rememeber what the OP said in his 1st post

"I don't really know how to overclock"

There is no way he is going to get a 165/170/180 to 3/1ghz nor does he even want to

For a novice telling him he can get to 3.1ghz is not helping him in his decision


180 OC Problems

""Believe it or not, our Opteron 180 was practically allergic to overclocking. I didn't expect to see the Opteron 180 throwing errors in Prime95 at 2.58GHz and 1.375V. ""

 

[sbuckler]

Originally posted by: tallman45
The FX-60 needs only a change in the multiplier from 13 to 14 to become a 2.8ghz proc. A 200mhz is a significant upgrade. And there is no other tweeking involed, in other words a very simple, risk free change. The Opteron 185 would require a lot more in the way of changes and would likley not ever get to 2.7,Ghz much less 2.8Ghz.

200mhz is not a significant upgrade, it's 7.5% extra which you'll never notice outside of a benchmark. You'll be lucky to get it much over 2.8 as well. If you are going to spend that sort of money then you'd be better off just buying and overclocking a cheap core 2 duo which will leave the FX60 for dead.
If you don't want to spend so much money then just get a much cheaper 4600 which after o/c will be close enough to an FX60 that you'll never notice the difference (except in the size of the hole in your wallet)

 

[Noubourne]

I don't think you should buy any of them.

C2D beats all those chips, and unless you're going to OC you're going to pay through the nose for hardware that gets beat by much cheaper C2D chips. Then you're going to move to DX10 video card, and you'll be married to this near-obsolete (overstatement, but still) and highly expensive rig. If sitting with a single core now with these minor upgrades (and really they are minor) is eating at you, wait till you're running a 6-month old $500 chip that gets beat by a $200 C2D (true the day you buy any of these), and real enthusiasts are working with quad-core chips. You're just gonna have to do it all over again.

I wouldn't do it. I'd get through the holidays, spend some cash on the family, pay down your CC, and then go for a whole system upgrade with C2D or K8L and a new video card next summer.

If you do anything right now, get an Opty 165 and learn to overclock with it, and then still do all of the above so you're ready to crank up C2D when you get it. Buying $400 CPUs when a $150 CPU will get you the same results is a huge waste of cash. Learn to OC a little and stop shelling for those ridiculously high priced top-of-the-line models. It's a HUGE waste of cash. By the time summer rolls around, you'll have overclocking experience and you'll save at least $500 on your next rig. By then some highly overclockable C2D/K8L/quad-whatever CPUs and their mid-range highly overclockable yet affordable video card brothers will be ripe for the pickins.

Slapping an Opty 185, X2 4800, or FX into that rig is just a good way to burn cash for no good reason. Spending less than 2 bills to learn how to overclock will be well worth it's weight in gold.

 

[tallman45]

Originally posted by: Noubourne
I don't think you should buy any of them.

C2D beats all those chips, and unless you're going to OC you're going to pay through the nose for hardware that gets beat by much cheaper C2D chips. Then you're going to move to DX10 video card, and you'll be married to this near-obsolete (overstatement, but still) and highly expensive rig. If sitting with a single core now with these minor upgrades (and really they are minor) is eating at you, wait till you're running a 6-month old $500 chip that gets beat by a $200 C2D (true the day you buy any of these), and real enthusiasts are working with quad-core chips. You're just gonna have to do it all over again.

I wouldn't do it. I'd get through the holidays, spend some cash on the family, pay down your CC, and then go for a whole system upgrade with C2D or K8L and a new video card next summer.

If you do anything right now, get an Opty 165 and learn to overclock with it, and then still do all of the above so you're ready to crank up C2D when you get it. Buying $400 CPUs when a $150 CPU will get you the same results is a huge waste of cash. Learn to OC a little and stop shelling for those ridiculously high priced top-of-the-line models. It's a HUGE waste of cash. By the time summer rolls around, you'll have overclocking experience and you'll save at least $500 on your next rig. By then some highly overclockable C2D/K8L/quad-whatever CPUs and their mid-range highly overclockable yet affordable video card brothers will be ripe for the pickins.

Slapping an Opty 185, X2 4800, or FX into that rig is just a good way to burn cash for no good reason. Spending less than 2 bills to learn how to overclock will be well worth it's weight in gold.

$400 for a useless AMD CPU when it is only $150 for C2D ??

Next he would have to get new Memory and a new Motherboard, how much is that when thrown into the mix. $100, $100, $300 ? Make sure one has teh Win Install CD handy that is also a new install

Do you really think that in a year from now there will be Apps and Games that will make a 2.6Ghz Dual Core processor look silly ?

Listen to what he is asking and what he does not want to do.

 

[Noubourne]

Originally posted by: tallman45
Do you really think that in a year from now there will be Apps and Games that will make a 2.6Ghz Dual Core processor look silly ?

Yes. There are apps today. Encoding and, well, encoding. lol!

Listen to what he is asking and what he does not want to do.

If we listened to that, we all would have told him that his single core chip is enough. Multi-tasking PS and Office doesn't stress a 3200, much less watching video (HD doesn't matter dude). Neither does "a little gaming".

He's probably hurting for RAM more than CPU cycles, depending on how he's using PS. He seems pretty set on a purchase. Are you actually recommending he pay $400 for an AMD chip?

Come on, guy. What's he doing that could possibly warrant anything more than the bottom of the line dual-core CPU, even if he DOESN'T plan to overclock? Certainly nothing in his list up there.

*Edit: Maybe I'm not listening to exactly what he is asking to do, but at least I'm not pushing him to waste $250 as if it will make some perceptible difference to his usage. Yes! He will be able to watch his HD shows at twice the speed!! OMGZ! At least if he follows my advice, he'll have some more knowledge when he's ready for his next upgrade.

 

[hclarkjr]

He's probably hurting for RAM more than CPU cycles

well according to his signature he has 2GB of memory which in my book doesn't qualify as hurting.

Are you actually recommending he pay $400 for an AMD chip?

yes i am, i just upgraded my system with an FX-60 from a X2 4200 and seen a noticable difference. not just benchmark wise either. you also have to consider not everybody likes to overclock. their is some risk in overclocking as you are stressing certain parts when you do that and if you do not know what you are doing it can get expensive replacing parts.

Come on, guy. What's he doing that could possibly warrant anything more than the bottom of the line dual-core CPU, even if he DOESN'T plan to overclock? Certainly nothing in his list up there.

i believe he mentions he uses photoshop, i believe that would warrant some power.
i love these people who right away say upgrade to core 2 duo without mentioning the cost involved. you will need new memory, motherboard and the core 2 chip. add that up and i think it comes to more than the FX-60 or opteron 185 cost. plus you have to in some cases factor in some loyalty to AMD. i will never own a intel chip and am sticking with AMD, without them i would have never been able to afford a computer when i fist started building computers

 

[MusickMaker]

So, you're saying if he started out from fresh, he'd get a better system using the C2D, but if he just upgrades, its better to go with AMD's Opty?

 

[swtethan]

sell your motherboard, ram and cpu for a new core 2 duo setup

 

[tallman45]

Yes, starting fresh, IE: someone needs to buy a CPU, MB, and Memory then the C2D route wold be the most advanatgeous.

If a user has a complete running system and is looking to get into Dual core and perhaps a little extra processing boost then a 939 Opty is the way to go.

For example I support an office that uses PS heavily, They each had 4gb mem and were running 3500+ 939's. The last thing I want to do is build completely new systems, or tell them that I have to. Even less of what I want to do is build rigs that are Oc'ed, these need to run 24 x 7 and I do not want them to fail, even if the risk is small, I need to support these.

So they each received a $300 Opty 180, each definately notices the boost in performance, it was night and day, maybe it was the 200mhz, maybe it was the extra cache, maybe it was the dual processing, who cares, they are happy. It was far more than a 7.5% increase in performance

Side benefit I modded (easy) the OEM 4 heat pipe heatsink with an 80mm to 120mm adapter and put in a low speed 120mm fan, the systems are now virtually silent and run cooler than before.

 

[swtethan]

I bet you could cover the difference by selling your cpu mobo and ram and afford a:

Biostar Tforce Motherboard - $105
2GB DDR2 RAM - $200


e6600 - $308 ($613 with mobo+ram)
e6400 - $218 ($523 with mobo+ram)
e6300 - $180 ($485 with mobo+ram)

e6600 price difference (with motherboard and ram)
Fx-60 $134
Opteron $198
4800+ $333

e6400 price difference (with motherboard and ram)
fx-60 $44
Opteron $108
4800+ $243

e6300 price difference (with motherboard and ram)
Fx-60 $6
Opteron $70
4800+ $205

http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2802


Fx-60 - $479
Opteron 185- $415
4800+ - $280


I'm pretty sure you can get $200 for your cpu motherboard and ram to cover the cost to upgrade to the e6600 (instead of the opteron 185 or $140 for the fx-60) which beats all 3 of these processors you mentioned at stock speeds.

 

[tallman45]

He should be able to get $60 for the 3500+, that could go towards whatever CPU upgrade he desired

So a Opty 180 would be $239

 

[keldog7]

Myocardia is most likely correct - an Opteron 185 will almost CERTAINLY hit 2.8 very easily, and there are lots of overclocks posted to support this fact... Starting with 2.6, the extra 200 is not even a 10% OC... Something probably attainable on stock voltage. Finally, the OP never mentioned the 180 in the first post...they mentioned the 185. Either way, the stepping of the chip is more likely to predict its "overclockability". From a pre-purchase perspective, the chip most likely to clock successfully to 2.8 GHz, is the one which is ALREADY almost that fast.

 

[cmrmrc]

get the 4800+...it is a way better deal than an FX-60 if you don't mind the sense of extreme in the FX name...or just get the 165 and learn to overclock a little bit with it and buy an entire new system next year....

Don't buy an C2D in your case, the extra money spent is not really worth the extra performance and work you'll have to go through for switching to a new platform.

 

[GeezerMan]

Interesting thread. I sold my 4200+ X2 and Asus A8N-E for 210.00 locally when someone asked me if I had one to sell, I said sure for some reason. I then bought the Opteron 165 for 155.00 and the EXCELLENT MSI-7125 motherboard for 42.00 on blowout special at Geeks. I think they may be out of it. So, for less money (just a bit) I'm having a heck of a lot of fun doing my first overclock. I'm at 2600MHZ, ram at 474MHz, prime stable for 13 hours so far. I'm doing my teething on the Opteron 165, that will perform better than my old 4200+ X2 did. Not as good as the Intel, but it's cheap, and a good way for me to learn overclcoking without risking a lot of dough. I can just imagine blowing up an expensive Intel setup.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: tallman45
The Opteron 185 would require a lot more in the way of changes and would likley not ever get to 2.7,Ghz much less 2.8Ghz.

I've yet to see an Opteron not be able to hit 2.7 Ghz, even a 1.8 Ghz 165. I realize that there have to be a few, but one that starts out at 2.6 Ghz wouldn't be one of them, I can assure you.

FWIW, when the 165s first came out, I showed my friend James the reviews and benchmarks and overclocking info ..

He bought :

Opteron 165 Retail
Thermalright SK120 Copper Heatsink + 4500RPM 120mm Fan + Artic Silver
DFI Lanparty SLI-DR
2x OCZ PC3500 2-2-2 1GB Platinum Memory
256MB PCIe 6800nu

And no matter what, we couldn't get that thing beyond 2.2ghz without random reboots, freezing, data corruption, etc. Tried voltage, lowering HT ratio, super loose ram timing, no good. Temps remained outstanding, but it just wouldn't go anywhere.

He's still running that setup 1 year later, but he's getting ready to try for a CCBBE (newegg, hopefully) and a 7600GT, and put the old 165 and 6800nu in his wife's system.

 

[Rottie]

I am sad nobody love 4800+ X2 anymore

 

[DEredita]

Originally posted by: Noubourne
I don't think you should buy any of them.

C2D beats all those chips, and unless you're going to OC you're going to pay through the nose for hardware that gets beat by much cheaper C2D chips. Then you're going to move to DX10 video card, and you'll be married to this near-obsolete (overstatement, but still) and highly expensive rig. If sitting with a single core now with these minor upgrades (and really they are minor) is eating at you, wait till you're running a 6-month old $500 chip that gets beat by a $200 C2D (true the day you buy any of these), and real enthusiasts are working with quad-core chips. You're just gonna have to do it all over again.

I wouldn't do it. I'd get through the holidays, spend some cash on the family, pay down your CC, and then go for a whole system upgrade with C2D or K8L and a new video card next summer.

If you do anything right now, get an Opty 165 and learn to overclock with it, and then still do all of the above so you're ready to crank up C2D when you get it. Buying $400 CPUs when a $150 CPU will get you the same results is a huge waste of cash. Learn to OC a little and stop shelling for those ridiculously high priced top-of-the-line models. It's a HUGE waste of cash. By the time summer rolls around, you'll have overclocking experience and you'll save at least $500 on your next rig. By then some highly overclockable C2D/K8L/quad-whatever CPUs and their mid-range highly overclockable yet affordable video card brothers will be ripe for the pickins.

Slapping an Opty 185, X2 4800, or FX into that rig is just a good way to burn cash for no good reason. Spending less than 2 bills to learn how to overclock will be well worth it's weight in gold.

Lets see $250-$350 for just a processor upgrade or $1500+ for a full new system? That's the whole reason why I was looking at a processor upgrade. It'll take me into '08 easy, and then I could build my dream dual quad-core system. More or less looking for something to tie me over for a year or so.


.

 

[DEredita]

Originally posted by: DEredita
Trying to decide on a new Processor - 4800+, 185, or FX-60?

I don't really know how to overclock, the best I can do is with the app that came with the mobo that allows me to do minor bump in speed to my AMD Athlon 64 3500+. So, I doubt I'll do much of an overclock with my next CPU.

I do a lot of multitasking, Photoshop, ImageReady, Office, a little gaming, (HD) video watching, music stuff, etc etc. I'm looking for a fast workhorse.

What would you guys suggest.

Newegg was selling the 185 for around $415 and the now sold out FX-60 at around $490.


.

On Newegg:

The Opteron 185 is now $335.00
The FX-60 is now: $515.00 (No way in hell)
The 4800+ is now: $248.00


I will eliminate the FX-60 from what I am considering - $515 is stupid - I'd just start over and get a C2D E6600 + mobo for that price.

I'm tempted to do the Opteron 185, hoping that the difference from going from the AMD Athlon64 3500+ to the Opty 185 is worth the price. I have several times pegged out the CPU. As for memory, it seems to be enough for now. Next system I build will have 4GB+ in it. I might actually pony up and just get a Mac Pro as my next system.


.

 

[DEredita]

Is the Opteron 185 significantly better than the 4800+?

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: DEredita
Is the Opteron 185 significantly better than the 4800+?

I wouldn't go so far as to say 'significantly' ..

But the extra 200mhz default speed and generally better o/c results are a good bonus. Almost any 185 will do 3ghz on respectable air cooling. Unfortunately even extremely exotic cooling solutions won't let you get much further.

Better deal than the 4800+ or 185 would be to just get say a 175, o/c some, and save your $$ for a trade-up in the future.