Trying to beat Dell on the low-end rig

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: JBDan
My 2 cents worth. All you Dell haters and intel bashers you cannot beat Dells low-end systems! For the warranty and the stability you absolutely cannot go wrong with Dell! Good luck!

:thumbsup:

Agreed. If anyone wants to tell me how they can build a barebones 400SC-equivalent for $300, let me know and I'll order the parts today. BTW, for $300, I got:

Sturdy Clamshell Tool-less Case
Highly Underrated PSU (runs 2x 160GB HD, X800XT PE, 2x DVDRW without a hitch)
Intel i875 Canterwood Motherboard (with AGP 8X, 4 DIMM, 8 USB, etc.)
512MB ECC PC3200 (256MBx2)
Pentium 4 2.8E w/ HT 800FSB 1MB L2
40GB 7200RPM HD
48X CD-ROM

Now the 400SC may be discontinued (it still might show up on Dell Refurb or eBay), but the 420SC is just as good for everything BUT heavy modern gaming (no PCI-E X16 slot for new GFX cards, but you can play less cutting-edge games just fine). If you're getting a PC for your young children, it's an ideal bulletproof solution.

And Dell has deals on their low-end servers all the time. Here's the most recent example: Text

 

[mechBgon]

Did that come with an OS, jpeyton? And what would the warranty have been if you hadn't dolled it up with your stuff, 1 year? At least those 400SCs are using a standard mobo...

Hehe, looking at the FW Forums link, I see the avatar that I designed and completely forgot about... Roll 'O TP

 

[krevo]

I'd stray from Intel and go with a Sempron. The new budget Athlon XP's and for what it's worth, you can get one with a good motherboard for a little over 100 dollars.

 

[cyberknight]

man is that smart of Dell to be shipping systems with 256MB. Then they can really push up the GHz number to impress those clueless customers.

that should be illegal.

I generally don't even bother thinking of using 256MB sticks anymore. I would just go with 1x512MB PC3200 on a Sempron 2400+ and get a 2nd stick later.

 

[Mogh]

Originally posted by: cyberknight
man is that smart of Dell to be shipping systems with 256MB. Then they can really push up the GHz number to impress those clueless customers.

that should be illegal.

I generally don't even bother thinking of using 256MB sticks anymore. I would just go with 1x512MB PC3200 on a Sempron 2400+ and get a 2nd stick later.

Normally I do a 512mb minimum but the point of the post was to try to beat Dell's prices using their own specs.

 

[Zebo]

What's shipping and tax? More importantly how you like dealing with a company with a scumbucket 4 reseller rating?


Ya I can beat it easy and be faster too and deal with a 9.5 reseller. from newegg.com or your #'s

Motherboard- BIOSTAR "M7NCG 400" nForce2 IGP $65 hella faster than Intels graphics.
Chip - Mobile 2400 set Bus to 200 and multi to 11 guranteed Athlon 3200 $77
HSF- Dynatron ALL Copper CPU Cooler for Socket A, Model "BH-610" $8.55
Memory- 512 MB PQI PC 3200 CAS 2.5 $65
Case- APEX Beige Mid-Tower Super Case with 350W Power Supply, $22
HD - SAMSUNG 40GB 7200RPM $45
Videocard- Onboard
Network Card- On board
1 Sony 52x CDROM EIDE $15.00
1 Sony CDRW 48x/24x/48x $19.00
KB and Mouse - Logitech Deluxe Desktop Bundle (Deluxe Keyboard & S69 Mouse) $11
1 Viewsonic/Optiquest Q71 17" .27 1280X1024 $105.00
1 Microsoft Windows XP HOME $84.00


Total $514.45 + 34.60 shipping

If you cut the ram to measly 256 like Dell this will be cheaper.

 

[Mogh]

Originally posted by: Zebo
What's shipping and tax? More importantly how you like dealing with a company with a scumbucket 4 reseller rating?

I always build so likely will never know. Shipping is free with Dell but your quote comes close and assuming has an AGP.

But forgetting the missing AGP slot on the Dell which is major for most including me it still hard to beat the price Intel spec for Intel spec. I just think the retailers should at least try to compete in costs which continually keep going up for stuff that has been out for over a year, do you not agree?

 

[kuljc]

hey mogh... since this is for your kids, I would suggest going to the fs forum and buying a used one. You can probablly get what you need for less than 500 bucks shipped.

Just put up a WTB: Fairly new desktop
then list your specs


or look around.

BTW:
The windows xp home can be had for VERY cheap... go to the fs forum.
put up a WTB: windows xp home and you'll get at least 5 replies in the first 5 minutes )

just remmeber to read up on the rules of that forum... and follow the standard precautions of trading (give me a PM if you have any questions I don't mind helping).

 

[kuljc]

check this guy out... PEFECT FOR WHAT YOU NEED
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...y&keyword1=desktop

all you need is windows xp home (which can be had for under 40 bucks on the fs forum)

he HAS included free shipping.

and hopefully i havn't over read anything, but he should have everything you wanted on that computer.


Just an option of course : but it'll end up being about 340 shipped for exactly what you want

(hopfully he still has it).

 

[Zebo]

Another Dell Beater IMO Athlon 64 retail boxed AX!


Motherboard- CHAINTECH "MK8M800" VIA K8M800 Socket 754 $63.50

Processor- AMD Athlon 64 2800+, 512KB L2 Cache, 64-bit Processor $128.00

Case- Foxconn CasEdge 3G ATX Case with 300W Power Supply (Black/Silver), Model "TK-09" $27.50

CD/DVD Burner- Rosewill BLACK 52X32X52 CDRW Drive, Model RR-521, $20.50

CD/DVD ROM Drive- Samsung Black 52X CD-ROM, Model SH-152AEBUB, $15.99

Keyboard and mouse- Logitech Deluxe Desktop Bundle $11.00

Memoyr- BUFFALO B-Line 184-Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 $64.00

Monitor- PROVIEW PS720F-1 17" Pure Flat CRT Monitor $104.50

Microsoft Windows XP HOME Edition With Service Pack 2 $92.25

Video -onboard and has a AGP slot like biostar board above.

Network- onboard

Total: $527.24 Shipping 47.23

 

[BenSkywalker]

I just think the retailers should at least try to compete in costs which continually keep going up for stuff that has been out for over a year, do you not agree?

Dell tends to use very cheap mobos, PSUs and cases. While most of us here could reccomend a cheap case if pushed, I don't think you will find too many people willing to push a cheap mobo on you or a ~200Watt PSU(which is what the Dell you are looking at likely ends up being).

But forgetting the missing AGP slot on the Dell which is major for most including me it still hard to beat the price Intel spec for Intel spec.

Dell gets special pricing from Intel for being an Intel exclusive provider(plus, they are Dell). We do have a way of building machines better then Dell for the same money though, AMD

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Mogh

Originally posted by: Zebo
What's shipping and tax? More importantly how you like dealing with a company with a scumbucket 4 reseller rating?

I always build so likely will never know. Shipping is free with Dell but your quote comes close and assuming has an AGP.

But forgetting the missing AGP slot on the Dell which is major for most including me it still hard to beat the price Intel spec for Intel spec. I just think the retailers should at least try to compete in costs which continually keep going up for stuff that has been out for over a year, do you not agree?

No one can beat dell on Intel systems. They probably order more cases/processors/mobos etc etc than all the on-line resellers put together. That means all these manufactures have a guarnteed product stream to deliver which signifigantly reduces costs to Dell on these items. Volume simple as that and Dell's still making money hand over fist.

Problems with Dell are long hold times, long ship dates, screwing people on rebates, sales tax lots of places, proprietary mobos with no overlcoking/bios abilites, low power PSUs, sometimes no AGP, no firewire, and no AMD.


Personally after getting borked by dell so much I would'nt order from them no matter the price. That said they do have nice vanilla systems at a resonable price.

 

[biostud]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Another Dell Beater IMO Athlon 64 retail boxed AX!


Motherboard- CHAINTECH "MK8M800" VIA K8M800 Socket 754 $63.50

Processor- AMD Athlon 64 2800+, 512KB L2 Cache, 64-bit Processor $128.00

Case- Foxconn CasEdge 3G ATX Case with 300W Power Supply (Black/Silver), Model "TK-09" $27.50

CD/DVD Burner- Rosewill BLACK 52X32X52 CDRW Drive, Model RR-521, $20.50

CD/DVD ROM Drive- Samsung Black 52X CD-ROM, Model SH-152AEBUB, $15.99

Keyboard and mouse- Logitech Deluxe Desktop Bundle $11.00

Memoyr- BUFFALO B-Line 184-Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 $64.00

Monitor- PROVIEW PS720F-1 17" Pure Flat CRT Monitor $104.50

Microsoft Windows XP HOME Edition With Service Pack 2 $92.25

Video -onboard and has a AGP slot like biostar board above.

Network- onboard

Total: $527.24 Shipping 47.23

leaving dell biting the dust

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: biostud

Originally posted by: Zebo
Another Dell Beater IMO Athlon 64 retail boxed AX!


Motherboard- CHAINTECH "MK8M800" VIA K8M800 Socket 754 $63.50

Processor- AMD Athlon 64 2800+, 512KB L2 Cache, 64-bit Processor $128.00

Case- Foxconn CasEdge 3G ATX Case with 300W Power Supply (Black/Silver), Model "TK-09" $27.50

CD/DVD Burner- Rosewill BLACK 52X32X52 CDRW Drive, Model RR-521, $20.50

CD/DVD ROM Drive- Samsung Black 52X CD-ROM, Model SH-152AEBUB, $15.99

Keyboard and mouse- Logitech Deluxe Desktop Bundle $11.00

Memoyr- BUFFALO B-Line 184-Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 $64.00

Monitor- PROVIEW PS720F-1 17" Pure Flat CRT Monitor $104.50

Microsoft Windows XP HOME Edition With Service Pack 2 $92.25

Video -onboard and has a AGP slot like biostar board above.

Network- onboard

Total: $527.24 Shipping 47.23

leaving dell biting the dust

Whoops I forgot the $45 samsung HD.....add it an I still think you're better off?

I dunno maybe you should go for the Dell Mogh.... No shipping or TAX pretty much outclasses anything price/performance wise.

Plus Dell will match very well... Black everything with dell erogonmics...

Only suggestion I have is get the "Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor w/ HT Technology (3GHz, 800 FSB) [add $20"

Only $20 extra for hyperthreading, 3.0Ghz and higher bus speed should make a big improvment over pentiumB

 

[Mogh]

Yes, we are getting better quality building but considering we are the ones doing the assembling and support, I believe the price should not be higher then Dell.

I have built hundreds of Intel systems between home/work and have watched the price gap in the last 5 years go from incredible savings building to swing the other way. Also, as once a die hard Intel builder I do not see me building another Intel system any time soon. Intel could have made up for this by dropping prices to compete with AMD counterparts.

We also have New Egg now only warranty stuff through manufacturer and none of the retailers are offering free shipping or any real sale incentives, unlike Dell.

btw - A good example is I have a Asus P4P800 Deluxe w/Northwood P4 800FSB, L2 512K sitting here which has to be about 2 years old now that was less then than it is now.

 

[Zebo]

See my edit just above... get the dell?

I just wish thier XPS systems were resonable (I love those cases) and they sold A64 of course.

 

[Mogh]

Originally posted by: Zebo
See my edit just above... get the dell?

I just wish thier XPS systems were resonable (I love those cases) and they sold A64 of course.

Nah, just wanted to make that point about the prices. Am I the only one that is seeing this (quote below)? Just seems the DYI community is getting screwed on prices these days and retailers are going to shit.

I have watched the price gap in the last 5 years go from incredible savings building to swing the other way. Also, as once a die hard Intel builder I do not see me building another Intel system any time soon. Intel could have made up for this by dropping prices to compete with AMD counterparts.

We also have New Egg now only warranty stuff through manufacturer and none of the retailers are offering free shipping or any real sale incentives, unlike Dell.

btw - A good example is I have a Asus P4P800 Deluxe w/Northwood P4 800FSB, L2 512K sitting here which has to be about 2 years old now that was less then than it is now.

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

I just think the retailers should at least try to compete in costs which continually keep going up for stuff that has been out for over a year, do you not agree?

Dell tends to use very cheap mobos, PSUs and cases. While most of us here could reccomend a cheap case if pushed, I don't think you will find too many people willing to push a cheap mobo on you or a ~200Watt PSU(which is what the Dell you are looking at likely ends up being).

But forgetting the missing AGP slot on the Dell which is major for most including me it still hard to beat the price Intel spec for Intel spec.

Dell gets special pricing from Intel for being an Intel exclusive provider(plus, they are Dell). We do have a way of building machines better then Dell for the same money though, AMD

People think Dell use very cheap mobos, PSU, and cases but they don't. They actually use pretty high quality stuff on most of their lines. They use stuff like Asus OEM Intel reference MB and PC Power and Cooling OEM powersupply. Their case is real nice too and sturdy and pretty quiet for the most part with temp controlled fans. As quiet PC types know, it isn't cheap trying to make your computer quiet.

Sure building your own is still the way to go for many people here due to flexibility and total control but some Dell machines aren't bad as people make it out to be. Dell 400SC servers were their best deal line IMO. Too bad they discontinued it. There were some awesome deals on that 400SC couple times a year.

Zebo, I know you don't like Dell reseller ratings but I've never had any problem with them and they ship very quickly if they have the item in stock. Plus if you don't want to deal with Dell phone support, there's always email. Plus with coupon and end of the quarter deals they run, you're missing out if you blacklist Dell. Just recently I picked up two BFG 6800 Ultra OC from Dell for $389 a piece shipped. Even though I had written off getting another 6800 series due to VPU flaws, I couldn't resist the low price on true Ultra OC. With Dell you just have to know how to play their game.

 

[BenSkywalker]

People think Dell use very cheap mobos, PSU, and cases

Mainly because they do.

They use stuff like Asus OEM Intel reference MB

On their higher end models.

and PC Power and Cooling OEM powersupply.

I've had to replace three different Dell PSUs this year, none of them were PCP&C and all of them were junk. Most of the machines I end up working on are Compaq(I do this on the side for friends and family) and none of them have had a PSU go bad in the last several years(despite also using junk parts- at least they don't pair a 180W PSU with a P4).

Their case is real nice too

I always thought of their consumer line cases more along the lines of going for the worst possible design in the PC industry, and coming quite close. I still think HP Pavillion line edges them out, but Dell has been making steady progress on their budget line of creating the worst cases in the industry.

Dell 400SC servers were their best deal line IMO.

Totally different line. Compaq makes some great server hardware also, better then Dell IME, that doesn't trickle down to their consumer lines.

Dell does things like pair a 2.8GHZ P4 with 256MB of RAM running WinXP to con the customer to thinking they are getting a decent performing machine(heh)- they use cheap parts, cheap support, and produce a cheap(not quality) end product for their consumer line of PCs. Dell's higher end machines are fairly decent, but they are grossly overpriced. I think they are still a bit better then the Wal-Mart level PCs you can buy, but the gap has been rapidly closing over the last couple of years.

 

[ponyo]

Dell 400SC was sold as a server but many people use these as desktops. Dimension 4600 line was the equalivent on the consumer side but usually higher priced. Like anything you have to know what to buy at Dell. 400SC was pretty much the only Dell desktop I would have considered.

 

[Zebo]

Zebo, I know you don't like Dell reseller ratings but I've never had any problem with them
--------------------------
I and many others don't like them as evidenced by thier poor ass RR. I don't want to rehash all the crap I've been though with them but to say their RR is dead on.


Just recently I picked up two BFG 6800 Ultra OC from Dell for $389 a piece shipped.
------------------------
I'd rather buy it from you for $450 or bestbuy for $499 plus tax

 

[remagavon]

I love Dell.

Got this for $450

Dell 8300
i875p mainboard
2.8ghz 512k 800fsb P4 w/ HT (better than AMDs for general desktop use, I hate multitasking even on an A64.. but I used to have a Xeon system)
512mb pc3200 Dual Channel Memory
48x Burner
16x DVD
NIC
Modem
Sound Blaster Live!
Radeon 9800 128mb
Windows XP Professional

You just have to shop around, good luck. Their budget budget systems suck (i.e. the ones without agp, but even the midrange ones are pretty good) To those saying the cases are terrible: That used to be the case but now they're very good, I've worked with a 4600 and two 8300s as well as a first gen gaming XPS and all have been fantastic, especially the XPS.

 

[dexvx]

It's funny how people go bashing Dell when the original poster wants to just know if he can get a good deal for them or not. Well lets put some facts on the table:

Motherboards: Dell uses FoxConn at the consumer level, which is decent quality

PSU: Dell uses eMac or FoxConn, which is good quality. I'd like to see anyone show me a retail rated 250W power X800PE's with 3Ghz processors and multiple IDE devices.

Case: The case is tool-less and pretty sturdy. It beats the crap out of the cheaper cases you get recommended. Its clamshell and opens in a snap.

Upgrade-ability: Unless people have been living in a cave for 3 years, all the recent Dells (minus higher workstations and servers) use all standard parts. The PSU, Motherboard, everything is standard and interchange-able. You might be limited to expandability in the form of not enough external/internal 5.25"/3.5" drive bays, but thats about it. And yes, you can even wire the Power Button/Reset Button on a standard board if you splice the cable.

Models: Only the Dimension 4xxx and 8xxx series have AGP or PCI-Express slots. The 420SC carries a 8X PCI-E slot, which some people have modded (the plastic to fit) to accept 16X PCI-E graphics cards. 400SC has an undocumented AGP slot. If you feel like modding, I'd go for the 420SC, as that is where most of the recent deals have been popping up. A GeForce 6600GT PCI-E is "the" card in terms of value.

Deals: There have been lots of very hot Dell deals every few weeks or so. Some of them cannot be beat, period (especially those with the free LCD's). DIY people generally get cranky because for the past decade+ building was THE way to go to save money for a budget system.

 

[mechBgon]

all the recent Dells (minus higher workstations and servers) use all standard parts

Except for the compact case designs, I think you meant And maybe you haven't seen a Dell with angled DIMM slots (necessary for the case to be able to close), but I have (Dim4600) and I would have a darn hard time calling that "standard." But whatever.






electric spoon!

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: mechBgon

all the recent Dells (minus higher workstations and servers) use all standard parts

Except for the compact case designs, I think you meant And maybe you haven't seen a Dell with angled DIMM slots (necessary for the case to be able to close), but I have (Dim4600) and I would have a darn hard time calling that "standard." But whatever.

I'm not sure how an angled DIMM implies that it is non-standard.