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Trumps tweeted "WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF" and i cant believe I agree with him

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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
14,288
843
126
Sheesh!...I'm thinking it's in the state constitution that the anyone elected governor has to be a moron.
Heck. I think it was back in the late 1990s when I took note of Haley Barbour, thinking he was another cornpone asshole.

Between the governor of Kentucky pardoning dangerous criminals en-masse, the stuff we see today and other signs, Mitch McConnell effectively making federal government ineffective . . . . is this the revenge of post-Confederate throw-backs, wanting to get even for the Civil War's outcome?! Take over the Party of Lincoln, while continuing to tout it as the Party of Lincoln? Tear asunder federal institutions? Destroy the Rule of Law? Elect a sociopath for president? Hob-nob with the Russians for sweet corporate deals while selling out the country? Spend us into oblivion with stupid projects, create a pandemic that requires spending greater than the Iraq War?

And committing multiple or mass Negligent Homicide, by ignoring career intelligence observations, disbanding Obama's plague-response team, and handling repatriation of cruise-ship infected citizens so as to allow unprepared HHS employees to wander around in the general countryside, spreading disease?

They need to restore the gallows and public executions to the legal system . . . If there's even enough people left to wear the hood and pull the string . . .

On the Negligent Homicide, I wonder if the Law & Order girls -- or the real-world counterparts we've seen contributing to the news media like Maya Wiley, Joyce Vance or Mimi Rocah -- I wonder if they could make the charges stick in court?

Something I hope I live long enough to see . . . .
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
28,638
2,463
126
Economic collapse leads to civil unrest.

Our lives are not some clinical thing where we can weigh options in a sterile environment. The human factor of how people react needs to be taken into account. American's general economic illiteracy needs to be taken into account. Workers will be unemployed, they will go hungry. Businesses will default on loans. 20-30% unemployment is no joke. People will panic and not know how to proceed in an orderly fashion when the grocery stores are almost empty like they are now.

Hoarding behavior is just the beginning. Guns to take what you need are the end result. How are we going to prevent that?
Pandemic could spark unrest among West's urban poor
Social unrest could erupt among the urban poor and marginalised in the West's biggest cities as they lack sources of income amid the COVID-19 crisis, the head of the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies (IFRC) said on Friday.

Western Civilization draws closer to the void. As a collective we have not experienced such hardship since World War 2. But even then the world made sense, industry still operated and many nations were still functional. It is now, in 2020, that we have paused much of our economic activity. This is a sudden and global shock to the system. It is completely unprecedented in our short history. Any person left behind by aid packages will be reeling as social unrest becomes their only option.

Interesting fact, the aid package Congress has assembled, at $2 trillion is roughly the value of six months worth of Universal Basic Income. A major piece of an economic safety net that would have left everyone in the nation shrugging over this upheaval. Instead, Americans and many other people face great fear and uncertainty as to their future in these trying times.

It has only just begun. Some people look at the virus and fear it. Others look at what we have done to our society and fear that more. To "defeat" the virus will take a couple months of this shutdown. No one really knows how people will afford that, the great individual cost and toll this will take. Fight the virus, but do not underestimate the human element. We can always screw up the best laid plan.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
58,375
10,539
126
With the current disparities in wealth, income, and access to healthcare (based on wealth), the lessons of the French and Russian revolutions are there for the learning.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
15,203
1,494
126
Pandemic could spark unrest among West's urban poor
Social unrest could erupt among the urban poor and marginalised in the West's biggest cities as they lack sources of income amid the COVID-19 crisis, the head of the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies (IFRC) said on Friday.

Western Civilization draws closer to the void. As a collective we have not experienced such hardship since World War 2. But even then the world made sense, industry still operated and many nations were still functional. It is now, in 2020, that we have paused much of our economic activity. This is a sudden and global shock to the system. It is completely unprecedented in our short history. Any person left behind by aid packages will be reeling as social unrest becomes their only option.

Interesting fact, the aid package Congress has assembled, at $2 trillion is roughly the value of six months worth of Universal Basic Income. A major piece of an economic safety net that would have left everyone in the nation shrugging over this upheaval. Instead, Americans and many other people face great fear and uncertainty as to their future in these trying times.

It has only just begun. Some people look at the virus and fear it. Others look at what we have done to our society and fear that more. To "defeat" the virus will take a couple months of this shutdown. No one really knows how people will afford that, the great individual cost and toll this will take. Fight the virus, but do not underestimate the human element. We can always screw up the best laid plan.
The last paragraph is a simple equation, stay home and starve, or go back to work and have a 95% chance of surviving. It's going to come down to a simple A or B choice, and the vast majority will choose to go back to work because that's the only viable solution. The feds could hand out a hundred trillion dollars, but if no food is being produced, no products manufactured, that money has zero value, unless it's flushable.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
11,875
2,981
136
The last paragraph is a simple equation, stay home and starve, or go back to work and have a 95% chance of surviving. It's going to come down to a simple A or B choice, and the vast majority will choose to go back to work because that's the only viable solution. The feds could hand out a hundred trillion dollars, but if no food is being produced, no products manufactured, that money has zero value, unless it's flushable.
.... there is a feedback loop to that equation where you gloss over the fact that most most people dont do advanced algebra on the fly, much less in groups. Money from work or money from the magic unicorn works the same if there is nothing to buy. Right?
What you are saying is that people will, collectively, arrive at the same conclusion, independently, that "we all need to get back to work" to get the wheels spinning again so we can collectively eat. Yea. Have you met us?
I mean its a nice idea and all, but its like up there with "Imagine".
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
13,598
5,550
146
What I’m wondering is why is there nothing to buy?

I was just at the store yesterday morning and 90%+ of the store was stocked.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
46,400
5,732
126
The last paragraph is a simple equation, stay home and starve, or go back to work and have a 95% chance of surviving. It's going to come down to a simple A or B choice, and the vast majority will choose to go back to work because that's the only viable solution. The feds could hand out a hundred trillion dollars, but if no food is being produced, no products manufactured, that money has zero value, unless it's flushable.
I absolutely agree that we need to get America back to work as soon as possible, however the math says that simple B choice would mean 8 million dead (5% of US workforce of 160 million).
That number is too high IMO, fatality rate is actually 1-2%, not 5%, and many Americans can work from home so not everyone will be infected, but even conservative numbers indicate something like a million dead.
That makes the choice a lot less simple unfortunately.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
28,638
2,463
126
I am still hearing from Trumpers "its only the flu". There is a STRONG narrative among Conservatives to downplay the virus.
 
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fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
5,725
918
126
I absolutely agree that we need to get America back to work as soon as possible, however the math says that simple B choice would mean 8 million dead (5% of US workforce of 160 million).
That number is too high IMO, fatality rate is actually 1-2%, not 5%, and many Americans can work from home so not everyone will be infected, but even conservative numbers indicate something like a million dead.
That makes the choice a lot less simple unfortunately.
Once the medical system gets overwhelmed the mortality rate is actually around 10% as exemplified by Italy.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
46,400
5,732
126
What I’m wondering is why is there nothing to buy?

I was just at the store yesterday morning and 90%+ of the store was stocked.
I went to the store yesterday as well (a Fred Meyers, which is Krogers). They are hiring aggressively (immediate positions available), and it seemed to be well-stocked on everything except TP and other paper products, rice, beans, pasta, and peanut butter. For some reason, I always thought we'd run out of beer at the zombie apocalypse, but no worries there. No price gouging either, I even picked up 2 lbs of butter on sale. Eggs are being rationed, but I have backyard chickens so I'm good there.
Seems like America has entered a kind of wartime economy, with only essentially goods and services being produced, but they are being produced, and there are still things to buy.
 

zzyzxroad

Golden Member
Jan 29, 2017
1,231
568
106
I am still hearing from Trumpers "its only the flu". There is a STRONG narrative among Conservatives to downplay the virus.
What I think people do not understand is, if your medical system is overwhelmed and undersupplied the low percentage numbers go out the window. Plus most people are idiots. Mix that with a steady drip of downplaying and here we are.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
46,400
5,732
126
I am still hearing from Trumpers "its only the flu". There is a STRONG narrative among Conservatives to downplay the virus.
Conservatives, almost by definition, will downplay any risk that doesn't directly affect them. But at the same time will freak out when they are affected. So if the predictions hold true, we'll see their tunes changing on that shortly. Be interesting to see how the Trump propaganda machine adapts its narrative then. Probably it will all be the liberals' fault for not doing enough to contain the virus.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
46,400
5,732
126
Once the medical system gets overwhelmed the mortality rate is actually around 10% as exemplified by Italy.
I was attempting to point out that even the conservative projections make that simple A or B choice not so simple.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
8,867
909
126
Trump has completely radicalized the base. The fact he has them talking about everyone going back to work, and accepting the catastrophically higher rates of death it will result in, rather than attenuate the situation properly is eerie.

I guess most every other country that is continuing to push staying home and avoiding others is going to collapse in on its self? These simple feats of logic are lost on them, completely radicalized. Yes, lets get millions under the ground so Trump can continue to crow about the economy.

US Republicanism is no longer a political movement, it's a radicalized cult with an inept lunatic playing the role of pied piper leading them off the cliff. Whether its manged by pretending climate change is a hoax, or with the narrative that the best way to handle this virus is just accept millions of avoidable deaths, one way or another the lemmings are ready to jump. Fingers crossed Trump is voted out in November, and, that he doesn't manage to pull off a coup after a loss to somehow stay in power. Realistically, the base is primed and radicalized for it, so stopping it will not be as easy as saying; 'Hey you can't do it.' Apparently lawlessness is now a feature, not a bug, in the Republican ideology.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
14,288
843
126
In some ways, our household was prepared for this. Three seniors, drawing their SS payments and retirement, trying to minimize grocery trips while keeping the cupboard stocked up. So we always had a backup package of 12 paper-towel rolls and a similar package of 18 toilet paper rolls when we went again to COSTCO to replenish those very items.

I can't get InstaCart to deliver either PT or TP now. If I go to COSTCO, I will be compelled to wear my Dustin-Hoffman-Bio-Hazard suit:

3M Respirator for 6000 and 7000 series cartridges

Nitrile gloves


Gore-Tex USMC hooded rain-parka and rain-pants (easy to hose off on the patio to dry for the next trip)


. . . even if I go in the morning at "senior-citizen-hour".

We usually spend about $600 to $700 monthly on groceries for three people. I use the grocery-runs to socialize and relieve myself of the fam-damn-ily or "cabin-fever". Now, we're changing our strategy. And I just pulled the string for $1,000-worth of wish-list groceries for delivery this week thru Insta-Cart. This is March 28, and we begin using the next-month's grocery and credit-card budget five days before end of the previous month. We've already blown our April budget, except for about $100!

I just need to find $60-worth of "Create-a-Size" paper towels and Cottonelle Terlit Paper. But we're probably good for maybe another two weeks to a month on the existing supply . . . .
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
6,371
875
126
Speaking of senior citizen hours, I'm so glad Costco implemented that. It keeps us non-seniors safe! Senior hour at my local Costco was the scariest thing I've witnessed in a while.

And if you want to know who's hoarding all the toilet paper, it's the seniors.
 
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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
14,288
843
126
Trump has completely radicalized the base. The fact he has them talking about everyone going back to work, and accepting the catastrophically higher rates of death it will result in, rather than attenuate the situation properly is eerie.

I guess most every other country that is continuing to push staying home and avoiding others is going to collapse in on its self? These simple feats of logic are lost on them, completely radicalized. Yes, lets get millions under the ground so Trump can continue to crow about the economy.

US Republicanism is no longer a political movement, it's a radicalized cult with an inept lunatic playing the role of pied piper leading them off the cliff. Whether its manged by pretending climate change is a hoax, or with the narrative that the best way to handle this virus is just accept millions of avoidable deaths, one way or another the lemmings are ready to jump. Fingers crossed Trump is voted out in November, and, that he doesn't manage to pull off a coup after a loss to somehow stay in power. Realistically, the base is primed and radicalized for it, so stopping it will not be as easy as saying; 'Hey you can't do it.' Apparently lawlessness is now a feature, not a bug, in the Republican ideology.
After this total cluster-f*** -- the so-called Pres ignoring intelligence reports as early as December, disbanding Obama's Ebola response team, discouraging "social distance", furloughs and closing restaurants and bars -- seniors without "vote-by-mail" options will be discouraged from going to the polls. The surviving clutter-brains of the Base may still turn out.

But this is not going to be a routine election. And what do you think? Do you think governors like Mississipi's Tate are going to promote vote-by-mail? I don't know what's available in Mississippi, but not all states have a set-up like CA.

Any ordinary election environment would be guaranteed to shut Trump down. I don't just want to see the fucker in jail. I want public executions! Romanov-style, using triple-A like Rocket Man!

If I survive this, I have a set of "trick questions" to use for the next 20 years. Anybody I encounter who supported a second-term for that Asshole -- I will ruin their fucking day whenever I can! Shun them in church! Shame them in public! Deny them first-aid, in states where it's legal to do so. Identify, Boycott and Destroy Trumper businesses!

Civil War?! "Out of Order?! Out of Order!? I'll SHOW you Out-of-Order! Ah'm jus' gettin' warmed up!!"
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
30,665
1,781
126
Speaking of senior citizen hours, I'm so glad Costco implemented that. It keeps us non-seniors safe! Senior hour at my local Costco was the scariest thing I've witnessed in a while.

And if you want to know who's hoarding all the toilet paper, it's the seniors.
I never knew what it was like to truly be scared until i stood in line for the senior citizen hour....lolol
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
14,288
843
126
I never knew what it was like to truly be scared until i stood in line for the senior citizen hour....lolol
What sort of bothered me, the last time I went on an "exotic-grocery" run with my "Unforgiven" hat and Train-Man bandana, was the seniors I saw. For instance, a frail, 85-year-old lady -- no face mask or surgical mask -- nothing! Do they all wanna die?!

Then, there are certain store policies. Trader Joe's -- well-meaning as it is -- seems to create a hazard outsize the store, trying to avoid one on the inside. No more than ten people at a time allowed in the store. They create a queue or line of people outside, not necessarily six feet apart, all standing there for 20 minutes and allowed to enter one at a time when some individual exits with grocery bags.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
14,288
843
126
Speaking of senior citizen hours, I'm so glad Costco implemented that. It keeps us non-seniors safe! Senior hour at my local Costco was the scariest thing I've witnessed in a while.

And if you want to know who's hoarding all the toilet paper, it's the seniors.
If you wanted to isolate yourself from the college students who gave each other the Corona while playing on the Florida beaches, you would certainly want a large supply of toilet paper!

And this -- after I'd taught myself to clean my sphincter thoroughly and perfectly with only 5 TP panels folded up in a single wipe! Fold and re-fold!! Never a diaper-itch, either! And never the well-known brown stain on a pair of Duluth Trading Buck-Nakeds!
 
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