Trump University - a fraud according to students

[Moonbeam]

I have to wonder if this will end up being Trumps downfall. That the school was a scam is a given, it was just like every other seminar offering "Powerful Information" and "Amazing Results".
It always surprises me that people still pay money for this crap. The "Secret System" used by "Millionaires" will get you money Fast! It's sad that they're so gullible, and criminal that others take advantage them.

Just the collateral damage of living in a competative system between people who hate themselves and worship money as the alternative to self respect as the sign of a winner. In a world like that there will always be people so emotionally stunted and filled with such self loathing they will turn their intelligence into cunning to feed that very sickness by praying on others who have the same illness but haven't quite yet lost all of their humanity.

This system will exist as long as people suffer the emotional damage that scarcity and physical environmental misery and money is the only way out. Denial of the fact that we hate ourselves allows the system to persist, a system in which psychopathology and sociopathology create alpha individuals.

Love you that it sickens you, but moral disgust won't change the system. As long as the winners in our system take ego gratification in there personal luck within that sick system, such people will always be threatened by truth like that expressed here.

 

[Moonbeam]

Maybe if Trump wins the election he can pardon himself. Maybe he will run some scam on the whole country and the whole country gets so angry they suddenly wake up to the fact that our competative system has destroyed us. But then one would imagine that when 100% of the people dream to be the 1%, something somewhere is bound to go wrong. I don't know about you but that 99% just sort of look like stepping stones to me.

Thank God I don't need the money though because I have a vast caravan of riches on its way to me and it will arrive any day.

 

[Moonbeam]

The complaint is here:https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2648169/People-v-Trump-University-Affirmation.pdf

Page 52 of the complaint goes over how their materials encouraged students to falsify their income to credit card companies in order to increase their credit limit and then if asked to provide evidence of income claim that it was too much trouble to get the paperwork together.

You never cease to amaze me. I just wish that what impresses the hell out of me didn't tempt others to become axe murders.

 

[alien42]

looks like Trump can't deny his direct involvement...

"Donald Trump was personally involved in devising the marketing strategy for Trump University, even vetting potential ads, according to newly disclosed sworn testimony from the company’s top executive taken as part of an ongoing lawsuit.

In the testimony, part of a trove of records made public as a result of a federal judge’s Friday order, the executive said that the real estate mogul was involved in discussions and signed off “any time we had a new ad.”

“Mr. Trump understandably is protective of his brand and very protective of his image and how he’s portrayed,” Michael Sexton, Trump University’s president, said in the 2012 deposition. “And he wanted to see how his brand and image were portrayed in Trump University marketing materials. And he had very good and substantive input as well.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...32a488-2741-11e6-ae4a-3cdd5fe74204_story.html


"when the case goes to trial, which is expected to happen in late November."

this whole Trump experiment is an absolute disgrace to this country.

 

[emperus]

The documents released Tuesday include internal company manuals, called “playbooks,” which show that instructors were advised to aggressively steer prospective customers toward the most expensive courses. The playbooks advised staff members to collect “personalized information” about participants to help close sales. One example: “Are they a single parent of three children that may need money for food?”

Keep it classy Trump.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

The documents released Tuesday include internal company manuals, called “playbooks,” which show that instructors were advised to aggressively steer prospective customers toward the most expensive courses. The playbooks advised staff members to collect “personalized information” about participants to help close sales. One example: “Are they a single parent of three children that may need money for food?”

Keep it classy Trump.

Honestly I don't get the rage over the playbook. I skimmed some of it at CNN and it reads like a regular sales training/playbook. The stuff in it seemed to focus on open ended question that are designed to move someone to yes its essentially a sales 101 class. Every large company selling anything would have a similar guide.

 

[emperus]

Honestly I don't get the rage over the playbook. I skimmed some of it at CNN and it reads like a regular sales training/playbook. The stuff in it seemed to focus on open ended question that are designed to move someone to yes its essentially a sales 101 class. Every large company selling anything would have a similar guide.

Lol.. It's ok. I don't think you'd get any rage about Trump.

 

[fskimospy]

Lol.. It's ok. I don't think you'd get any rage about Trump.

I'm sure those single parents who need food for their kids have $35,000 under the sofa cushions that they don't need.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I'm sure those single parents who need food for their kids have $35,000 under the sofa cushions that they don't need.

Ever done business with an insurance company I guarantee they have a similar playbook.
I've been involved in sales a long time not having funds is by far the number one objection truth or not. My point is these are basic functions sales people are expected to over come. We also don't have context because none of us were there. That could have come from someone who said they own a vacation home in Hawaii.
I'm far from a Trump supporter, I do think he gets an easy pass about the conflicting things he says but the sales playbook is pretty basic stuff.
That being said if they were targeting people they know don't have the means or skills intentionally that's a totally different thing.

 

[fskimospy]

Ever done business with an insurance company I guarantee they have a similar playbook.
I've been involved in sales a long time not having funds is by far the number one objection truth or not. My point is these are basic functions sales people are expected to over come. We also don't have context because none of us were there. That could have come from someone who said they own a vacation home in Hawaii.
I'm far from a Trump supporter, I do think he gets an easy pass about the conflicting things he says but the sales playbook is pretty basic stuff.
That being said if they were targeting people they know don't have the means or skills intentionally that's a totally different thing.

I don't think that part of the sales playbook is that bad either, although it is definitely predatory and slimy. It's just not that much slimier than most sales tactics for things of this sort.

The deceptions and fraud are a much bigger deal. His lies about 'hand picking' instructors,the fraudulent claims of the expertise of those instructors, the lies about the curriculum, the bait and switch tactics their seminars used, their encouragement of their students to commit additional credit card fraud, etc.

He got busted running an out and out scam designed to prey on working class people who couldn't afford it using tactics that aren't much different than the ones he's using in his campaign. I wonder if any of his supporters have noted the disturbing similarities.

 

[emperus]

Ever done business with an insurance company I guarantee they have a similar playbook.
I've been involved in sales a long time not having funds is by far the number one objection truth or not. My point is these are basic functions sales people are expected to over come. We also don't have context because none of us were there. That could have come from someone who said they own a vacation home in Hawaii.
I'm far from a Trump supporter, I do think he gets an easy pass about the conflicting things he says but the sales playbook is pretty basic stuff.
That being said if they were targeting people they know don't have the means or skills intentionally that's a totally different thing.

You seem to be missing the point (probably purposeful). I'm sure Bernie Madoff had a similar playbook. The point is Trump was selling a scammy product and using high pressure tactics to do so.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You seem to be missing the point (probably purposeful). I'm sure Bernie Madoff had a similar playbook. The point is Trump was selling a scammy product and using high pressure tactics to do so.

No my point is there seems to be far too much media rage over the playbook and far too little talk about what the class has or hasn't done or Trump has covered every possible position about abortion, Trump has claimed to be a great Christian but has admitted he's never asked for forgiveness or Trumps going to be tough on Russia but he admires Putin and so on.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I don't think that part of the sales playbook is that bad either, although it is definitely predatory and slimy. It's just not that much slimier than most sales tactics for things of this sort.

The deceptions and fraud are a much bigger deal. His lies about 'hand picking' instructors,the fraudulent claims of the expertise of those instructors, the lies about the curriculum, the bait and switch tactics their seminars used, their encouragement of their students to commit additional credit card fraud, etc.

He got busted running an out and out scam designed to prey on working class people who couldn't afford it using tactics that aren't much different than the ones he's using in his campaign. I wonder if any of his supporters have noted the disturbing similarities.

This is what gets me. The complete willful ignorance of his supporters.

He constantly skips specifics on anything because he will only hire the best people. He is the smartest person alive. Has the utmost integrity. blah blah blah..

And yet this shit is what is continually displayed. It mirrors his entire campaign.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

No my point is there seems to be far too much media rage over the playbook and far too little talk about what the class has or hasn't done or Trump has covered every possible position about abortion, Trump has claimed to be a great Christian but has admitted he's never asked for forgiveness or Trumps going to be tough on Russia but he admires Putin and so on.

I think they are focusing on it because it speaks to the core of Trump and how he has conducted himself in the past vs. how he is conducting himself now. He's a fraud. A snake oil salesman. He is on record as having stated he personally signed off on everything to do with Trump "University". So he owns every fraudulent practice. Every false claim used to entice the money from the pockets of the people who enrolled. The incompetence of the people that he stated were hand picked by him who disappeared after people gave their money.

 

[fskimospy]

This is what gets me. The complete willful ignorance of his supporters.

He constantly skips specifics on anything because he will only hire the best people. He is the smartest person alive. Has the utmost integrity. blah blah blah..

And yet this shit is what is continually displayed. It mirrors his entire campaign.

And look what happened when he hired 'the best people' for Trump University. His 'hand picked' instructors were people like this:

- A guy who claimed to have a bachelors degree. Years later when his record was examined by an outside entity he claimed to have a high school diploma. In fact he didn't even have that.

- Instructors who claimed their real estate expertise was based on being self employed in real estate but were unable to supply evidence of any actual income from it.

- People who had recently declared bankruptcy resulting from failed attempts at real estate investing.

Initially, Trump University apparently didn't even bother to vet its candidates. After it was informed about all of these people's various deficiencies they did nothing to correct them.

Scam, scam, scam.

 

[Spungo]

A fool and their money......

It just amazes me at the amount of people willing to jump headfirst into get rich schemes.

Indeed. I'm fairly vocal on this forum about how I like investing and how rewarding it is, but I've had lots of people tell me 10% per year while taking as little risk as possible is not enough. They want 20% or more per year. Being that good at investing would put one in the same category as Warren Buffett or Carl Icahn. Almost nobody gets returns that good, but so many people think it's realistic. You could sell these morons almost anything.

I had a strange thought a few years ago. It's illegal for me to practice most professions since I'm not a lawyer, I'm not an accountant, I'm not a financial planner, etc. What if I gave people psychic financial advice? I'm not breaking the law because I'm not pretending to be a licensed financial person. I just say my well-researched financial plans are coming from psychic prediction, and that would make the business legal. You can probably guess how many clients would actually buy into something that stupid.


What's really ironic about the Trump University situation is that it did teach people a lot about the real world - everyone is trying to fuck you

 

[emperus]

I think they are focusing on it because it speaks to the core of Trump and how he has conducted himself in the past vs. how he is conducting himself now. He's a fraud. A snake oil salesman. He is on record as having stated he personally signed off on everything to do with Trump "University". So he owns every fraudulent practice. Every false claim used to entice the money from the pockets of the people who enrolled. The incompetence of the people that he stated were hand picked by him who disappeared after people gave their money.

This

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

and a fraud according to ex-employees, while not the best metric for measurement, they were at least in the trenches dealing with drumpf university at a level none of us were.

"I resigned from my position in May 2007 because I believe that Trump University was engaging in misleading, fraudulent and dishonest conduct," said Ronald Schnackenberg, who said in his statement he had been a sales manager for six months. He said he believed it was a "fraudulent scheme and that it preyed on the elderly and uneducated to separate them from their money."

Pretty damming sentiments coming from an ex-employee.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/01/news/trump-university-employees/index.html

 

[jackstar7]

and a fraud according to ex-employees, while not the best metric for measurement, they were at least in the trenches dealing with drumpf university at a level none of us were.

Pretty damming sentiments coming from an ex-employee.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/01/news/trump-university-employees/index.html

Don't get suckered in. This guy was a loser and he set up Hilary's email server, too. You're gonna see how none of this matters.

 

[Spungo]

"fraudulent scheme and that it preyed on the elderly and uneducated to separate them from their money."

As the old saying goes, the best time to risk your life savings on a business venture is when you're 70.

 

[sunzt]

Why is everyone looking at this negatively?

With Trump as POTUS we could finally start paying off our national debt by scamming China, Saudis, and every other nation!!!

All you losers have no real vision.

 

[Spungo]

With Trump as POTUS we could finally start paying off our national debt by scamming China, Saudis, and every other nation!!!

Does not compute. The way to scam them is to not pay the debt, and that's what the Trumpster is known for.

We're already defaulting on our debts. Japan is too. Instead of actually paying our debts with honor, we're printing money to pay debts. So far, the fed has monetized about $4.5T of our debt. It's a great scam while it lasts. These idiots around the world keep lending us money and getting negative real returns. Over in Europe, they even have negative nominal returns, but people still buy those bonds. It's amazing. We should try to bring that scam to America. Let the government issue bonds at -1% and see how many retards buy them.

I can picture Trump doing that. He's not a fiscal conservative. He's a big spender. He'll rack up more debt than any other president in history, which seems to the trendy thing to do these days since Bush and Obama both accomplished it.

I think a lot of 'murcans should look at Canada to see what happens next. Back in the 1970s, that country was run by a man named Pierre Trudeau, who was the father their current PM, Justin Trudeau. While Pierre was in power, the national debt increased by something like 1100%. It was 11x larger when he left than when he started (they don't have term limits so he was in power for quite a while). This wasn't a problem because he also crashed the currency while doing it, so it's like the country owed 10 dimes instead of 1 loonie. In nominal terms the debt increased, but in real terms it wasn't that big of a deal. It sucked for all of the pensioners and bond investors who got destroyed, but it was great for people holding things like real estate and common stock.

 

[Blackjack200]

I had a strange thought a few years ago. It's illegal for me to practice most professions since I'm not a lawyer, I'm not an accountant, I'm not a financial planner, etc. What if I gave people psychic financial advice? I'm not breaking the law because I'm not pretending to be a licensed financial person. I just say my well-researched financial plans are coming from psychic prediction, and that would make the business legal. You can probably guess how many clients would actually buy into something that stupid.

I'm not really sure what you're talking about. You cannot charge for investment advice unless you are registered with FINRA, whether you're claiming your advice is based on fundamental analysis or psychic vision.

 

[soundforbjt]

Does not compute. The way to scam them is to not pay the debt, and that's what the Trumpster is known for.

We're already defaulting on our debts. Japan is too. Instead of actually paying our debts with honor, we're printing money to pay debts. So far, the fed has monetized about $4.5T of our debt. It's a great scam while it lasts. These idiots around the world keep lending us money and getting negative real returns. Over in Europe, they even have negative nominal returns, but people still buy those bonds. It's amazing. We should try to bring that scam to America. Let the government issue bonds at -1% and see how many retards buy them.

I can picture Trump doing that. He's not a fiscal conservative. He's a big spender. He'll rack up more debt than any other president in history, which seems to the trendy thing to do these days since Bush and Obama both accomplished it.

I think a lot of 'murcans should look at Canada to see what happens next. Back in the 1970s, that country was run by a man named Pierre Trudeau, who was the father their current PM, Justin Trudeau. While Pierre was in power, the national debt increased by something like 1100%. It was 11x larger when he left than when he started (they don't have term limits so he was in power for quite a while). This wasn't a problem because he also crashed the currency while doing it, so it's like the country owed 10 dimes instead of 1 loonie. In nominal terms the debt increased, but in real terms it wasn't that big of a deal. It sucked for all of the pensioners and bond investors who got destroyed, but it was great for people holding things like real estate and common stock.

Don't forget Saint Ronnie tripled the debt.

 

[flexy]

The same type of people who went to Trump U (exceptions of course may apply) and who had been scammed to pay more and more money are likely the same type of people who would easily be scammed by "Prince Ngambe of Nigeria", TOLD THAT THEY ARE BEING SCAMMED, but continue to converse with Prince Ngambe nevertheless and send him even more money.

This is also (likely) the same type of people who are low wage earners, and who are voting for Trump, that is for LESS wages, health care and education cuts, along with tax breaks for the rich BECAUSE A BILLIONAIRE TOLD THEM IT IS BEST FOR THEM.

** For me this is a point where I give up even trying to understand their reasoning, in the same way that I could not understand how someone would continue sending "Prince Ngambe" more money even if someone told them and shows them they're getting scammed.