Trump threatens to send '25 million Mexicans' to Japan

[Bitek]

No. Trump is correctly pointing out that Japan has the luxury of being a fairly homogenous nation, and therefore does not need to contend with the socio-economic and cultural tensions that America and Europe is now dealing with.

He of course managed to articulate this point in the most abrasive and irresponsible way possible that continues to hurt America’s standing in the world.

He is also partially right. Japan does not have a great history when it comes to cultural tolerance. Not a lot of love for Japan in parts of China and Korea due to atrocities committed by Japanese soldiers during WW2.

An influx of non-Japanese migrant labor or refugees would absolutely provoke a political response in Japan, and would probably lead to the emergence of a Trumpian political voice in Japan.

We’ve fought at least one world war and there was a very bloody civil war in the Balkans over this notion of identity.

Identity is a powerful and exploitable force. Trump knows this.

Is that what he is saying, or is that the intellectualizing translation of his words in your head?

He spoke in way that an asshole would when discussing a neighbor's dog shitting on your lawn.
"How about I dump 25lbs of shit on your lawn Sean?! How about that?! Not so fancy are you now huh Sean?"

The obvious implication is that he continues to degrade and insult Mexicans and any other brown ppl he ever discusses.

 

[Indus]

Is that what he is saying, or is that the intellectualizing translation of his words in your head?

He spoke in way that an asshole would when discussing a neighbor's dog shitting on your lawn.
"How about I dump 25lbs of shit on your lawn Sean?! How about that?! Not so fancy are you now huh Sean?"

The obvious implication is that he continues to degrade and insult Mexicans and any other brown ppl he ever discusses.

Ding Ding Ding!

 

[trenchfoot]

Just walked by a protest the other day.
Mayor wants to do away with entrance tests and instead just bring in top students from all the schools.
All the Asians who spend thousands on tutoring and practice tests for the sole purpose of passing the entrance exam are flipping out because now there is a chance of darkies and non Asians filling up the halls.

They make the claim that is going to dumb down the school when all this impacts is how kids get in and this doesn't impact the curriculum at all. It' basically invites cream of the crop from all districts vs the normal group that spends thousands practicing for a single exam.

From a practical point of view, I see the problem as one of having a change occur that nullifies a particular advantage from one group and giving (as the former group see it) "an unfair, undeserving" advantage to everyone else. I'm thinking the Asian point of view is sort of like "there is no difference in IQ among all the applicants, the difference between the groups being how much effort and dedication was put into qualifying for entrance". I'm guessing culture also comes into play here where maybe Asians put a much higher value on education than other cultures do in a general sense, thus their feeling cheated by the Mayor inserting a "get in with less effort" clause in the selection process.

 

[Jaskalas]

The very idea of "President Trump" is a living nightmare we all have to wake up to each and every day. The Republicans who carry his water are moral and ethical cowards who, if there was any mythical "true justice," would all be put in jail for treason.

They have forsaken their responsibility to the Republic. They are scum.

First, I agree on the ghastly image conjured by Trump's very presence in the position of President. Behold America, for all its ills.

But traitors, treason, and jail? I am afraid you do not know that of whom you speak. Lest you find yourself readying final solutions for the WASP problem. Have you no empathy, sir? No way to humanize and understand the... lesser, of your fellow Americans? Then let me set the record straight for you. They are your countrymen and they believe they are doing the right thing to save the nation from the evils of <insert boogeyman here>.

I know... I've been there. Not just geographically but mentally.

Their failing is not one of evil, treason, or even ill intent. Their failing is that they are human. And in our human nature we carry with us delusions. For all sorts of reasons there exists... different groups of people who cannot agree upon the definition of objective reality. We humans lie to others, but first we lie to ourselves. That is our nature, and inherent in that mental disorder behavior is tribalism whereby we take the "other" and malign it. Yes, "it". For "they" are not worthy of being called human, those traitors. Right, Perknose?

See, when the answer is to dehumanize. To not... understand, to not empathize, then barriers are erected. Lines are drawn and none shall pass. Contesting wills arise, and eventually the use of force results in great violence. Unless, we were to understand our nature and that of our situation. If we were to understand the "other", their motives, their fears. If we could empathize with them even a little, perhaps they could see it. Perhaps barriers could be crossed.

As one who has traveled that path, the beginning of hope, I think... starts with a simple notion that you just might be friend, not foe. I wonder how we tell them that? Or better yet, show them? Don't get me wrong, the goal is not to surrender to them - it is to assimilate them. But first there must be a sharing of knowledge, which typically follows an armistice, which might just happen if we were not intent on ending each other.

I suppose the difference is I see hope for them (and for us). That they can grow and learn. It won't be easy, but nothing worth doing is.
Will you join me?

 

[Starbuck1975]

Is that what he is saying, or is that the intellectualizing translation of his words in your head?

That is me recognizing the underlying reality that Trump channels and uses as a wedge in our toxic and polarized society.

He spoke in way that an asshole would when discussing a neighbor's dog shitting on your lawn.
"How about I dump 25lbs of shit on your lawn Sean?! How about that?! Not so fancy are you now huh Sean?"

It’s the way an asshole would articulate the point, but it doesn’t change the underlying truth that no one wants 25lbs of shit on their lawn.

The obvious implication is that he continues to degrade and insult Mexicans and any other brown ppl he ever discusses.

I don’t think he was degrading Mexicans. I think he was being provocative and confontational relative to the very real problem and inherent tension between identity and growing refugee and human migrations.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Just walked by a protest the other day.
Mayor wants to do away with entrance tests and instead just bring in top students from all the schools.
All the Asians who spend thousands on tutoring and practice tests for the sole purpose of passing the entrance exam are flipping out because now there is a chance of darkies and non Asians filling up the halls.

They make the claim that is going to dumb down the school when all this impacts is how kids get in and this doesn't impact the curriculum at all. It' basically invites cream of the crop from all districts vs the normal group that spends thousands practicing for a single exam.

Perhaps, but for working class Asian families, academic prowess is a tremendous source of cultural pride and identity, and the arguments you hear are very similar to those made by working class Irish, Italian, Greek and other 20th century immigration waves that didn’t exactly get a warm welcome in America.

The elite have always pitted the working class against one another along identity fault lines, which is why the NIMBY liberal wealthy areas of liberal cities are able to stop those brown people from going to school with THEIR kids or living in THEIR neighborhoods.

 

[pauldun170]

From a practical point of view, I see the problem as one of having a change occur that nullifies a particular advantage from one group and giving (as the former group see it) "an unfair, undeserving" advantage to everyone else. I'm thinking the Asian point of view is sort of like "there is no difference in IQ among all the applicants, the difference between the groups being how much effort and dedication was put into qualifying for entrance". I'm guessing culture also comes into play here where maybe Asians put a much higher value on education than other cultures do in a general sense, thus their feeling cheated by the Mayor inserting a "get in with less effort" clause in the selection process.

It's hilarious travelling between NYC and Suffolk county.
You have the white folks in suffolk county raising hell about Common core testing and that everyone should boycott it and then you go to NYC where all the Asians are all about "The only thing that matters are test scores because this way I can tell my neighbor that my kid has best test scores!!"

 

[pauldun170]

Perhaps, but for working class Asian families, academic prowess is a tremendous source of cultural pride and identity, and the arguments you hear are very similar to those made by working class Irish, Italian, Greek and other 20th century immigration waves that didn’t exactly get a warm welcome in America.

The elite have always pitted the working class against one another along identity fault lines, which is why the NIMBY liberal wealthy areas of liberal cities are able to stop those brown people from going to school with THEIR kids or living in THEIR neighborhoods.

The elite?
Who is this mysterious elite?
Asking for a friend

 

[Indus]

It's hilarious travelling between NYC and Suffolk county.
You have the white folks in suffolk county raising hell about Common core testing and that everyone should boycott it and then you go to NYC where all the Asians are all about "The only thing that matters are test scores because this way I can tell my neighbor that my kid has best test scores!!"

Why would someone hate test results. Tells them how smart their kid are and if they need to work on their academics or not.

 

[IronWing]

Why would someone hate test results. Tells them how smart their kid are and if they need to work on their academics or not.

Any educational endeavor that even hints of engagement required on the part of parents is totally unacceptable.

 

[Perknose]

The Republicans who carry his water are moral and ethical cowards who, if there was any mythical "true justice," would all be put in jail for treason.

They have forsaken their responsibility to the Republic. They are scum.

First, I agree on the ghastly image conjured by Trump's very presence in the position of President. Behold America, for all its ills.

But traitors, treason, and jail? I am afraid you do not know that of whom you speak. Lest you find yourself readying final solutions for the WASP problem. Have you no empathy, sir? No way to humanize and understand the... lesser, of your fellow Americans? Then let me set the record straight for you. They are your countrymen and they believe they are doing the right thing to save the nation from the evils of <insert boogeyman here>.

I know... I've been there. Not just geographically but mentally.

Their failing is not one of evil, treason, or even ill intent.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was talking specifically about the Republicans in Congress.

 

[Vic]

They don't have any illegal alien problem other than Chinese and they crack down way harder than we do. Japan is one of the most isolationist countries in the history of this planet and if they had 1/10th the illegal immigrant problem we have they'd be working on cloning Godzilla and surrounding the islands with thousands of fire-breathing lizards trained to stop immigrants.

This is yet another case of Trump being right and the pathetic lefties jumping on anything he says as automatically being stupid without thinking it through. We do have a huge immigration problem, Japan doesn't. Period. They fight their asses off to limit their illegal immigrants and its about time we did the same. The way Trump is going about it is idiotic, but the message isn't. He was elected to fix this problem because Obama/Hilary refused to do it.

Fixing that 'problem' is a major reason why Japan has been in economic decline for almost 30 years.

 

[pmv]

Why would someone hate test results. Tells them how smart their kid are and if they need to work on their academics or not.

Well, an education system can get excessively hung-up on simple metrics and on relentless testing, to the point where they spend far more time testing, or on focussed cramming for very narrow tests, than they do on actually educating students. It's not a simple question, there is constant debate over the topic. Too much testing can destroy real creativity, and waste a huge amount of time.
And what do you mean by 'smart'? How are you defining that, in other than a circular way meaning 'scores well on the test'?

It's all a question of degree, really. Exactly how much testing is appropriate, and how much emphasis to put on the results.

 

[Indus]

Any educational endeavor that even hints of engagement required on the part of parents is totally unacceptable.

Maybe that's why most 'Mericans still confuse their with there, break with brake, and wonder why people park in a driveway but drive on a parkway.

 

[Indus]

And what do you mean by 'smart'?

Ability to understand and retain that knowledge taught to them.

 

[Vic]

The elite?
Who is this mysterious elite?
Asking for a friend

IMO, America's current crisis is that the flow of the 'White Flight' of the 50s and 60s has reversed, with millions of people fleeing rural areas for the cities. Where many find that they can't afford to get in. Meanwhile, those homeowners already in the cities are profiting from this demand, watching their home values jump and their standards of living rise.
The whole thing kinda has a Hunger Games theme to it. Which IMO Trump is intentionally playing to.

 

[Moonbeam]

Trump is truly your proverbial Uncle Stupid. It would be bad enough if we had to withstand and tolerate him at Thanksgiving and Christmas family dinners, but, sadly, our entire country has to put up with this ignoramus and his toilet tweets every damn day,

This sclerotic know-nothing man baby gets to be the voice and face of America . . . the fat f*cking face of America.

I am beyond angry at this sad state of affairs. Donald J. Trump is a lying piece of shit. I would deport him and then pay to build a wall around his deported ass to keep him out forever if I could.

The very idea of "President Trump" is a living nightmare we all have to wake up to each and every day. The Republicans who carry his water are moral and ethical cowards who, if there was any mythical "true justice," would all be put in jail for treason.

They have forsaken their responsibility to the Republic. They are scum.

I salute you for the calmness and rationally you maintain in your protest here. Unfortunately for me, on the rare occasions when I get going on Trump in a full and frank manner, trusted family members leave the room. I have this horrible tendency to wish people get what they deserve, but, unlike the better among us, with full and total objectivity.

 

[theeedude]

They are short on laborers. They also treat their people MUCH better than most nations on earth.

They also have a word for death from overwork: Karoshi.

 

[Jhhnn]

Meh. Race isn't a wedge issue in Japan. It is in this country thanks to the right wing practitioners of top down class warfare. It's been divide & conquer for at least 150 years.

Trump's remarks simply deny the reality of modern America. We must transcend our prejudices if we're to thrive & if ordinary citizens of all colors are to share in the bounty of this country.

 

[Moonbeam]

Fixing that 'problem' is a major reason why Japan has been in economic decline for almost 30 years.

I don't know how to interpret this. Does this imply they are doomed or that they will be the country to find a solution? I see the problem relating to population growth equating to economic growth and the opposing force of population growth exceeding carrying capacity of the planet with all the attendant disasters approaching that creates. It would seem that Japan is most in need of a solution and conscious awareness and solutions spring from need.

 

[HomerJS]

Yeah DeBlasio's an idiot just like Trump focusing totally on identity.

One would have some common sense to just open more schools.

I went to an ordinary high school, not stuyvescent but my GPA was good enough to get into an elite college.

Minus the racism, misogyny, rudeness, xenophobia, lack of empathy and lacking knowledge of history.

 

[Perknose]

Yeah DeBlasio's an idiot just like Trump

Minus the racism, misogyny, rudeness, xenophobia, lack of empathy and lacking knowledge of history.

 

[pmv]

Ability to understand and retain that knowledge taught to them.

Well, that's not necessarily a fixed property of an individual. And tests don't necessarily measure it. The tests show how well a student is doing in a subject insofar as 'doing well' is defined as getting good scores on a test in it. I'd leave 'smartness' out of it. I don't really know what that is.

Meh, I'm ambivalent about it. I was always great at passing tests and exams, but I was also always very anxious and stressed, and the two seem to go together. And in general the people I know who did worse on those tests have done better in real life. Seems to me such tests get fetishised somewhat...but I'm certainly not saying scrap them entirely.

 

[Indus]

Do you think that once white America loses its political power, that identity politics will just go away?

Once Trump and the GOP implode, new identity fault lines will emerge, and new coalitions will form.

And how long do you give it?

 

[glenn1]

If they arent Chinese, pretty well. Better than America.

Yeah, about that - there's immigrants which have been in Japan for generations and are not considered citizens and treated like crap. Hell, Japan received 19,628 applications for asylum in 2017 and approved 20 of them. Basically 1 in 1,000 acceptance rate; does that sound like a country that welcomes immigrants to you?

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...ent-koreans-endure-climate-hate/#.WyWP_9JKiM8