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Trump sent 400 troops to Syria, is increasing Saudi alliance

D

desura

Diamond Member
Which means confrontation with Iran.

I thought one silver lining of Trump win might have been a more isolationist foreign policy, but given Trump's hard-on for military men, it looks like he will be giving the Pentagon even more of what it wants because he is incapable of offering skepticism towards anyone wearing fatigues.
 
desura said:
Which means confrontation with Iran.

I thought one silver lining of Trump win might have been a more isolationist foreign policy, but given Trump's hard-on for military men, it looks like he will be giving the Pentagon even more of what it wants because he is incapable of offering skepticism towards anyone wearing fatigues.
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Why would you have thought that? He literally pledged to invade Syria with tens of thousands of US troops and talked about how he wanted to scrap the Iran nuclear deal. The guy has been itching for a war somewhere from the start.
 
fskimospy said:
Why would you have thought that? He literally pledged to invade Syria with tens of thousands of US troops and talked about how he wanted to scrap the Iran nuclear deal. The guy has been itching for a war somewhere from the start.
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He made a big deal about how the Iraq War was a big mistake. It was genuinely thrilling seeing him go after Bush on this one.
 
fskimospy said:
Why would you have thought that? He literally pledged to invade Syria with tens of thousands of US troops and talked about how he wanted to scrap the Iran nuclear deal. The guy has been itching for a war somewhere from the start.
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Trump is all things to all conservatives, in fairness much the same way obama was all things to many liberals. The difference is that one of them is at least competent no matter the false hopes.
 
desura said:
He made a big deal about how the Iraq War was a big mistake. It was genuinely thrilling seeing him go after Bush on this one.
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Did pledging a ground invasion of 30,000 troops into Syria make you think he had learned the lessons of why the Iraq War was a mistake?
 
fskimospy said:
Did pledging a ground invasion of 30,000 troops into Syria make you think he had learned the lessons of why the Iraq War was a mistake?
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But he was against the war, after he was for it of course and he thought that it could change the past to his advantage.

What I don't understand why anyone would consider getting into an even more complex intervention. Heck it took Putin to save us from Obama's folly when Kerry shot off his mouth.

Damn foolishness.
 
fskimospy said:
Did pledging a ground invasion of 30,000 troops into Syria make you think he had learned the lessons of why the Iraq War was a mistake?
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And your candidate actively worked towards and pledged regime change in Syria. Drop the act, you voted for a Neocon. At least there's a chance, however small, that he won't listen to people like Hillary. As for the lesson of Iraq, that'd be to oppose regime change and to support regional peace and stability. Something that stopping ISIS represents.
 
Jaskalas said:
And your candidate actively worked towards and pledged regime change in Syria. Drop the act, you voted for a Neocon. At least there's a chance, however small, that he won't listen to people like Hillary. As for the lesson of Iraq, that'd be to oppose regime change and to support regional peace and stability. Something that stopping ISIS represents.
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The worst thing about centrists is that not even the conservatives like their conservatism. But it does rather reveal what they think of their own ideology when it's not their own people.
 
Jaskalas said:
And your candidate actively worked towards and pledged regime change in Syria. Drop the act, you voted for a Neocon. At least there's a chance, however small, that he won't listen to people like Hillary. As for the lesson of Iraq, that'd be to oppose regime change and to support regional peace and stability. Something that stopping ISIS represents.
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Trump's position was far, far more aggressive than Hillary's on Syria. Don't lie to yourself.
 
fskimospy said:
Trump's position was far, far more aggressive than Hillary's on Syria. Don't lie to yourself.
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I think that's rather hard to quantify. The prior administration and supporters were for a conflict with Assad, ISIS aside. Trump AFAIK isn't going for another Iraq with a guaranteed power vacuum. Of course every statement of Trump intent carries an implicit of a high degree of error so who knows what things will ultimately look like, but Assad is Putin's boy and Trump (I believe) will take his preferences into account before acting.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
I think that's rather hard to quantify. The prior administration and supporters were for a conflict with Assad, ISIS aside. Trump AFAIK isn't going for another Iraq with another guaranteed power vacuum. Of course every statement of Trump intent carries an implicit of a high degree of error so who knows what things will ultimately look like, but Assad is Putin's boy and Trump (I believe) will take his preferences into account before acting.
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Troubling thing is he has increased involvement in Yemen and the coddling of he Saudis. And Tashfeen Malik was likely the driver of the San Bernardino massacre and she reportedly was highly influenced by Saudi society.

I wonder if Trump is even aware of this detail.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
I think that's rather hard to quantify. The prior administration and supporters were for a conflict with Assad, ISIS aside. Trump AFAIK isn't going for another Iraq with another guaranteed power vacuum. Of course every statement of Trump intent carries an implicit of a high degree of error so who knows what things will ultimately look like, but Assad is Putin's boy and Trump (I believe) will take his preferences into account before acting.
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All I can say is that Clinton's stated position on Syria was somewhat more aggressive than Obama's in that she wanted to implement a no-fly zone to shield Syrian rebels from Assad/Russia's airstrikes but Trump's position was far more aggressive than Clinton's as Trump explicitly said he wanted to invade Syria with US troops.

It's certainly possible (probable?) that Trump was lying again but it hardly seems fair to condemn Clinton for her stated position on Syria and then hand wave away Trump's stated position.
 
dank69 said:
This is great and exactly what America wanted.
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Honestly, talking with ordinary Americans and they are way afraid of ISIS to a ridiculous degree. Like, I know a guy who said that he would change the route he drove home every night because you never know when ISIS might target vets. And people way overplay the beheadings and etc that ISIS does.
 
How long did it take for Bush to go to war? A year?



At this point, if he were impeached he would still be a better president than W. I expect that calculus will soon change; Either we will go to war or he'll kill so many of us with his Trump police state w/o healthcare that it will be a wash.
 
fskimospy said:
All I can say is that Clinton's stated position on Syria was somewhat more aggressive than Obama's in that she wanted to implement a no-fly zone to shield Syrian rebels from Assad/Russia's airstrikes but Trump's position was far more aggressive than Clinton's as Trump explicitly said he wanted to invade Syria with US troops.

It's certainly possible (probable?) that Trump was lying again but it hardly seems fair to condemn Clinton for her stated position on Syria and then hand wave away Trump's stated position.
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Steve Bannon at least would likely be opposed to further involvement and he is highly influential. There was also the reported coziness with Russia which is the biggest departure from Clinton. If Trump has good relations with Russia, just let the Russians take care of Syria. The only reason to send troops is to forestall Russian influence in the region. Clinton despised Russia so much that she might have gotten involved in Syria for this reason.

And there is a legit case to be made that the US being the premier power in he Middle East is to our benefit, and that it is better that we have the power in the region and not the Russians.
 
FIVR said:
How long did it take for Bush to go to war? A year?



At this point, if he were impeached he would still be a better president than W. I expect that calculus will soon change; Either we will go to war or he'll kill so many of us with his Trump police state w/o healthcare that it will be a wash.
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I cannot imagine how bad the deficit would be if Trump started a war. It already is really bad, but a war with Iran would probably trigger some form of hyperinflation here or a really vicious deficit crunch. Iran is a much smarter and capable opponent than most countries.
 
fskimospy said:
All I can say is that Clinton's stated position on Syria was somewhat more aggressive than Obama's in that she wanted to implement a no-fly zone to shield Syrian rebels from Assad/Russia's airstrikes but Trump's position was far more aggressive than Clinton's as Trump explicitly said he wanted to invade Syria with US troops.

It's certainly possible (probable?) that Trump was lying again but it hardly seems fair to condemn Clinton for her stated position on Syria and then hand wave away Trump's stated position.
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It's impossible to know what the outcomes would be given two leaders, but if we have ten thousand on foot against ISIS and 5000 to attack Assad, which is better? Naturally this is not "He or she would do", but a more general statement reflecting more than numbers. For Trump specifically? No trust warranted so no trust given.
 
desura said:
Honestly, talking with ordinary Americans and they are way afraid of ISIS to a ridiculous degree. Like, I know a guy who said that he would change the route he drove home every night because you never know when ISIS might target vets. And people way overplay the beheadings and etc that ISIS does.
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Localized and isolated.
No such problems here.
 
desura said:
Honestly, talking with ordinary Americans and they are way afraid of ISIS to a ridiculous degree. Like, I know a guy who said that he would change the route he drove home every night because you never know when ISIS might target vets. And people way overplay the beheadings and etc that ISIS does.
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can you really over play cutting someones head off?

seems like the ultimate punishment.
 
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