Trump security adviser discussed sanctions with Russia before taking office

[Commodus]

Contact between Flynn and the Russian ambassador began right after the election, the Washington Post says.

Now, before the "anything that paints Trump in a negative light is fake news" camp chimes in: Flynn went from denying that he'd talked to the ambassador about sanctions to "gee, I can't remember, but I can't rule it out." That's usually what you do when the answer is yes, but you want to avoid admitting it until you absolutely have to.

Needless to say, that creates serious trouble if it holds up. You're not supposed to be discussing lifting sanctions (and make no mistake, this was about lifting sanctions) before you're even in office, especially when your campaign has already come under scrutiny for connections to Russia. It's illegal for citizens to interfere in disputes with foreign governments. And this has implications for Pence, too. He flatly denied that Flynn had talked to Russia. It's possible that he was just going on Flynn's word, but if he wasn't...

I agree with the WP that prosecuting this could be tricky, but the key is that the discussions were about the sanctions. This wasn't just an instance of getting to know the people you'll be dealing with before you take office; it was an attempt to skew policy before taking office. It may be hard for the Republicans to look the other way so long as there's evidence that Flynn and the ambassador talked a significant amount.

 

[rudder]

I hope we see sanctions now that Putin has attacked Korea.

 

[Jaskalas]

What's the legal problem with the Trump Admin lifting sanctions?
They weren't supposed to plan it ahead of time?

 

[Commodus]

What's the legal problem with the Trump Admin lifting sanctions?
They weren't supposed to plan it ahead of time?

The issue in this case isn't lifting the sanctions by itself (that's another story), it's that the Trump campaign was conducting diplomacy before it was allowed to... and with Russia, no less.

 

[MongGrel]

Many people involved in Trumps campaign had major connections to Russia, it was mentioned on the forums way before the election.

Most people did not care or just ignored it.

I'd have to find it, but they are in here somewhere in various threads.

 

[HomerJS]

What's the legal problem with the Trump Admin lifting sanctions?
They weren't supposed to plan it ahead of time?

Its illegal to plan it ahead of time with Russia

 

[MongGrel]

I hope we see sanctions now that Putin has attacked Korea.

NM, I was going to try to be serious but why bother, you've regressed again.

 

[FIVR]

"Putin rules, Obama drools. You lost. Get over it" - Trump Supporters




I really don't see a problem with him lifting sanctions. It's not like they actually do anything now that they have the president under their control anyway. They'll find a way to circumvent them otherwise, I believe they already enacted a somewhat limited lessening of the sanctions.

Might as well get trade with Russia and Iran as an upside to Trumps bizarre foreign non-policy.

 

[jackstar7]

Whoa whoa is Treason, you knooooow... never believe it's not so!

 

[HomerJS]

"Putin rules, Obama drools. You lost. Get over it" - Trump Supporters




I really don't see a problem with him lifting sanctions. It's not like they actually do anything now that they have the president under their control anyway. They'll find a way to circumvent them otherwise, I believe they already enacted a somewhat limited lessening of the sanctions.

Might as well get trade with Russia and Iran as an upside to Trumps bizarre foreign non-policy.

Problem #1. Allowing Exxon to go back into business with Russia and start erecting oil wells. That stopped when sanctions enacted. Why would you want to make Putin more rich and powerful??

 

[MongGrel]

Whoa whoa is Treason, you knooooow... never believe it's not so!

Next thing ya know the lying US media will be dropping over dead from radiation poisoning ...

 

[HomerJS]

It is confirmed. Another Trump official is proven to be a damned liar. When story first surfaced he flatly and multiple times denied it.

It appears to be a violation of the Logan Act.

In December, Trump national security adviser Michael Flynn spoke at length with the Russian ambassador to the United States about changes in America’s Russia policy that could come about during the Trump presidency, the Washington Post reported Thursday, citing anonymous U.S. officials. Among the matters discussed: sanctions imposed by President Obama over Russia's meddling in the 2016 election. This contradicts Flynn's flat denials and the Trump administration’s characterizations of the nature of the call.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...ussed_sanctions_with_russia_in_potential.html

 

[Homerboy]

Could have sworn there was a thread about this earlier. Somebody find it. I'm a lazy libtard.

 

[sdifox]

I hope we see sanctions now that Putin has attacked Korea.

Huh? I thought Putin was just visiting North Korea? Or are you referring to Waters mixing up Crimea and Korea? That was facepalm worthy.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Contact between Flynn and the Russian ambassador began right after the election, the Washington Post says.

Now, before the "anything that paints Trump in a negative light is fake news" camp chimes in: Flynn went from denying that he'd talked to the ambassador about sanctions to "gee, I can't remember, but I can't rule it out." That's usually what you do when the answer is yes, but you want to avoid admitting it until you absolutely have to.

Needless to say, that creates serious trouble if it holds up. You're not supposed to be discussing lifting sanctions (and make no mistake, this was about lifting sanctions) before you're even in office, especially when your campaign has already come under scrutiny for connections to Russia. It's illegal for citizens to interfere in disputes with foreign governments. And this has implications for Pence, too. He flatly denied that Flynn had talked to Russia. It's possible that he was just going on Flynn's word, but if he wasn't...

I agree with the WP that prosecuting this could be tricky, but the key is that the discussions were about the sanctions. This wasn't just an instance of getting to know the people you'll be dealing with before you take office; it was an attempt to skew policy before taking office. It may be hard for the Republicans to look the other way so long as there's evidence that Flynn and the ambassador talked a significant amount.

Pretty damning. We need a no-shit WH40k Inquisition to bring some of these tools to task.

 

[Jaskalas]

It is confirmed. Another Trump official is proven to be a damned liar. When story first surfaced he flatly and multiple times denied it.

It appears to be a violation of the Logan Act.

Burn him for lying to the public, sure, but the Logan Act?
The incoming Trump Admin somehow violated the last month of the Obama Admin by speaking to foreigners?
They are not allowed to discuss the policy of the next administration?

 

[Homerboy]

Burn him for lying to the public, sure, but the Logan Act?
The incoming Trump Admin somehow violated the last month of the Obama Admin by speaking to foreigners?
They are not allowed to discuss the policy of the next administration?

The Logan Act (1 Stat. 613, 18 U.S.C. § 953, enacted January 30, 1799 ) is a United States federal law that forbids unauthorized citizens from negotiating with foreign governments having a dispute with the U.S. It was intended to prevent the undermining of the government's position.

Was he a citizen at the time?
Do/did we have disputes with Russia at the time (ie: sanctions)
Was he negotiating with foreign gov'ts that undermined the (then current) gov't position?

 

[HomerJS]

Burn him for lying to the public, sure, but the Logan Act?
The incoming Trump Admin somehow violated the last month of the Obama Admin by speaking to foreigners?
They are not allowed to discuss the policy of the next administration?

Looks clear to me. Where is it not a violation?

The Logan Act (1 Stat. 613, 18 U.S.C. § 953, enacted January 30, 1799 (1799-01-30)) is a United States federal law that forbids unauthorized citizens from negotiating with foreign governments having a dispute with the U.S. It was intended to prevent the undermining of the government's position

 

[Pens1566]

Yeah, if the Logan Act exists for anything, it's this case.

Nine, 9, sources confirmed. There is a transcript of all his discussions with the Ambassador. He either "goes off to spend time with his family", or the text is likely made public.

 

[Thebobo]

NM, I was going to try to be serious but why bother, you've regressed again.

I'm dizzy now damnit!

 

[Jaskalas]

Was he a citizen at the time?
Do/did we have disputes with Russia at the time (ie: sanctions)
Was he negotiating with foreign gov'ts that undermined the (then current) gov't position?

That's the distinction. The current government was lasting a month. And they would clearly be discussing the next gov't's position.
The question is whether one is subverting the outgoing Admin by discussing the next Admin.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

It is confirmed. Another Trump official is proven to be a damned liar. When story first surfaced he flatly and multiple times denied it.

It appears to be a violation of the Logan Act.



http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...ussed_sanctions_with_russia_in_potential.html

That's the distinction. The current government was lasting a month. And they would clearly be discussing the next gov't's position.
The question is whether one is subverting the outgoing Admin by discussing the next Admin.

That appears to be exactly what happened, by definition I think 'discussing' the present admin's sanctions/differences from the future admin's policies *is* undermining/subverting the outgoing admin's position.

 

[HomerJS]

That's the distinction. The current government was lasting a month. And they would clearly be discussing the next gov't's position.
The question is whether one is subverting the outgoing Admin by discussing the next Admin.

The Logan Act (1 Stat. 613, 18 U.S.C. § 953, enacted January 30, 1799 (1799-01-30)) is a United States federal law that forbids unauthorized citizens from negotiating with foreign governments having a dispute with the U.S. It was intended to prevent the undermining of the government's position

Was Flynn unauthorized? Yes.
Was Flynn negotiating with Russia? Yes
Did Russia have a dispute with the US? Yes
Does Flynn discussing lifting sanction undermine the governments position at the time? Yes

I don't know what else you need. Besides he tried to hide it.

 

[OrByte]

Was Flynn unauthorized? Yes.
Was Flynn negotiating with Russia? Yes
Did Russia have a dispute with the US? Yes
Does Flynn discussing lifting sanction undermine the governments position at the time? Yes

I don't know what else you need. Besides he tried to hide it.

I think something else we need to know is if Trump/Pence tried to hide it.

 

[Thebobo]

I think something else we need to know is if Trump/Pence tried to hide it.

So then President Ryan after they are all impeached, fired, kicked out, horse tied etc?