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Trump pardons Navy sailor who took illegal submarine photos: Please explain

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emperus said:
You should really google the full story. It involves destroying his devices, wiping down his gun with bleach.. etc. Sounds more like attempted espionage.
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Certainly sounds like someone who believes what he did was against the law.
 
Sheik Yerbouti said:
Ignorantia juris non excusat
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That’s not entirely accurate.

If you are in law enforcement that may not apply.
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Starbuck1975 said:
Good to suddenly see so much concern over the handling of classified information, and a desire to hold people accountable even if they plead ignorance or should have known better.
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We aren’t holding him accountable despite him pleading ignorance, it’s that the evidence strongly indicates he was not ignorant.

Anyone attempting to equate this to Clinton’s email server is deluding themselves or engaging in some sort of creative rationalization process.
 
ch33zw1z said:
Ok, I'll go with that. Then his superiors should be penalized for not ensuring the grunts know wtf is going on
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I am pretty damn sure that everyone working on a nuclear submarine are schooled extremely well about the consequences of sharing information about the classified systems they work on and around. That is probably day one shit before they even start training.

That said, it does sound like a dumb kid doing some dumb shit with no real ill intent. Not sure that it reaches the level of "should be pardoned" because there are tens of thousands of similar dumb kids who won't get a pardon but at the same time I don't really care that he did.
 
skull said:
Your dense I'm sure his superiors told him otherwise. You don't remember what its like being young? I'm sure his thought line was more like those guys don't anything whats a few pictures going to hurt my friends need to see this its badass.
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Ahhhh, the perils of posting on your phone! At least, I hope that's the case. Otherwise, your dense is more dense than my dense! 😛

skull said:
If he was acting as a spy I'd say a year in prison wasn't near enough punishment.
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emperus said:
You should really google the full story. It involves destroying his devices, wiping down his gun with bleach.. etc. Sounds more like attempted espionage.
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I'm not convinced he had espionage in mind, but he sure exhibited full knowledge of what he was doing and a reckless disregard of its consequences. Lock him (back) up! 😱
 
emperus said:
But why pardon him? How many more deserving people are sitting in jail? And by pardoning him doesn't Trump belittle the law and order he campaigned on esp. given that he is the Commander in Chief. And the military personal have their own separate law system.

Honestly the logic here is mind numbing. Let's throw Hilary in Jail but let's pardon this guy. Yes, there is a difference between the Secretary of State and some private on some ship somewhere.
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I think this guy got a pardon because he used the "Hillary" defense in court and for no other reason.
 
skull said:
That doesn't mean he understood just how dangerous a couple pictures really could be.
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IDK, i have a neighbor who was on a sub decades ago and he wouldn't even tell me how thick the hull was when it came up in a random conversation, even though I'm sure Google would have the answer.

That's was a verbal specification to a neighbor from someone who left the Navy years ago, let alone actual digital photos that have way more detail and can easily be stolen/distributed

They take this stuff seriously.
 
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fskimospy said:
We aren’t holding him accountable despite him pleading ignorance, it’s that the evidence strongly indicates he was not ignorant.

Anyone attempting to equate this to Clinton’s email server is deluding themselves or engaging in some sort of creative rationalization process.
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I didn't even see that he did plead ignorance. From one of the articles:

"His lawyers said he knew the photos would be classified but he wanted to show his family what he did in the Navy."

Not to mention that there is no way in hell that you get to even step onto a nuclear submarine without very clearly knowing that certain things are classified and you aren't allowed to photograph them. If that wasn't the case then we'd have 10's of thousands of pictures of submariners taking selfies with the nuclear core, torpedoes, etc posted on FB. Submariners have to go through a crazy amount of training before ever stepping foot on a sub and then once on a sub they are drilled like crazy before getting their Dolphin (I think that is what it is), it is impossible that they didn't cover "this shit is classified, no photos, no discussing XYZ and if you do you go to prison".
 
Starbuck1975 said:
Good to suddenly see so much concern over the handling of classified information, and a desire to hold people accountable even if they plead ignorance or should have known better.
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Simple question, do you think in terms of classification the Secretary of State should be held to the same standards as say a newly enlisted soldier? Should the President also be held to the same standard? I don't think Hilary should have had a private server but this is getting stupid. She was the Secretary of State; a 24 hour job. If she wasn't trying to commit espionage, It's amazing people are still talking about it. There is no doubt what she did was careless. On the other hand we have a navy soldier, (there are thousands of them), in very shady circumstances removing classified info and all the peons on the right believe he should have gotten pardoned. Let's take this to the natural extreme, what happens if all soldiers decided to just remove classified information because they just want to show their family? What then?

I'm going to call it. A large part of this is racism and sexism. A white navy soldier should somehow be treated equally to the Black President of the US and female Secretary of State, because as we all know, they've worked equally hard to get where they are.

Btw, I await the same excuse when the debate comes around whether Trump can be indicted or not. The President should be treated the same as a navy soldier right? If a navy should be able to called to testify and then indicted then Trump should be also, right?
 
<~~~ Submariner

1. The amount of training someone gets before going to a boat is rate dependent. Some people just go to sub school then to the boat. Officers and nuclear trained enlisted folks get a couple of years worth before they go.
2. There aren't any stupid or ignorant nuclear trained Machinist Mate 1st Class PO's in the Navy. Like in all professions, some are better than others but none are stupid.
3. Everyone knows they shouldn't really be taking pictures anywhere on the boat, especially in the engine room, definitely not in the reactor compartment. All pictures have to have approval before leaving the boat. Anyone claiming ignorance of this is simply lying.
4. There apparently isn't any evidence that he tried to sell the pictures or that he even moved them off his personally owned devices. This is important for obvious reasons.
5. He has already served his jail sentence and was under house arrest.
6. I see no reason to grant this guy a pardon but the President has almost unlimited power to grant pardons for federal crimes. It's not like he used one out of a quota. There's certainly been more egregious use of this power by other Presidents.
 
Sunburn74 said:
Overall don't care that much. I'm for giving people <25 years of old second chances in the criminal justice system. We are way too harsh on these developing minds for the bad choices they make in an instant.
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Sailors do all kinds of stupid things. Let's just say, for several years, they weren't allowed to close the door of the Missile Control Center because of stupid pictures they took, then had them developed right in the local town. The guy in the photo store was an ex-sailor and knew where those pictures had been taken and turned them in. Something about crème on a cookie.
 
emperus said:
Simple question, do you think in terms of classification the Secretary of State should be held to the same standards as say a newly enlisted soldier? Should the President also be held to the same standard? I don't think Hilary should have had a private server but this is getting stupid. She was the Secretary of State; a 24 hour job. If she wasn't trying to commit espionage, It's amazing people are still talking about it. There is no doubt what she did was careless. On the other hand we have a navy soldier, (there are thousands of them), in very shady circumstances removing classified info and all the peons on the right believe he should have gotten pardoned. Let's take this to the natural extreme, what happens if all soldiers decided to just remove classified information because they just want to show their family? What then?

I'm going to call it. A large part of this is racism and sexism. A white navy soldier should somehow be treated equally to the Black President of the US and female Secretary of State, because as we all know, they've worked equally hard to get where they are.

Btw, I await the same excuse when the debate comes around whether Trump can be indicted or not. The President should be treated the same as a navy soldier right? If a navy should be able to called to testify and then indicted then Trump should be also, right?
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You had me until you made it about racism and sexism. This is about rules and regulations. You either strictly adhere to them or you grant exceptions due to context.

I support strict adherence, which means rank is irrelevant. The President doesn’t get a pass. Neither does the Secretary of State. Neither does an enlisted soldier on a nuclear sub.
 
Starbuck1975 said:
You had me until you made it about racism and sexism. This is about rules and regulations. You either strictly adhere to them or you grant exceptions due to context.

I support strict adherence, which means rank is irrelevant. The President doesn’t get a pass. Neither does the Secretary of State. Neither does an enlisted soldier on a nuclear sub.
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Do you think SoS Clinton "got a pass?"
 
Starbuck1975 said:
Yes. Had she been an enlisted soldier, DoD civilian or government contractor, at best, regardless of the criminal implications, she loses her security clearance/gets fired/gets a dishonorable discharge.
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Do you think Trump would have pardoned her? 😛
 
Perknose said:
Do you think Trump would have pardoned her? 😛
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LOL, no because she is a useful distraction. It would be nice if both political parties had a code of ethics to, oh I don’t know, disqualify any candidate who has done something that warrants an investigation by the FBI.
 
Starbuck1975 said:
LOL, no because she is a useful distraction. It would be nice if both political parties had a code of ethics to, oh I don’t know, disqualify any candidate who has done something that warrants an investigation by the FBI.
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A lot of people are investigated by the FBI without ever being prosecuted or found guilty. I don't imagine you are in favor of punishing them?
 
Darwin333 said:
I am pretty damn sure that everyone working on a nuclear submarine are schooled extremely well about the consequences of sharing information about the classified systems they work on and around. That is probably day one shit before they even start training.

That said, it does sound like a dumb kid doing some dumb shit with no real ill intent. Not sure that it reaches the level of "should be pardoned" because there are tens of thousands of similar dumb kids who won't get a pardon but at the same time I don't really care that he did.
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Him destroying devices to cover his ass speaks volumes wrt to his understanding of the situation. He knew it was not allowed.

I agree, he's schooled in this shit day one. It's so stupid, and he deserves to sit and think about it.
 
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