Trump Ordered Mueller Fired, but Backed Off When White House Counsel Threatened to Quit

[Hayabusa Rider]

Trump can't tolerate people having power over him. He's obsessed with the investigation. This isn't evidence of guilt of collusion, but he sure is guilty of obstruction.

Trump is right that he's not being investigated for collusion. Collusion in itself is not a crime. What he would be charged with instead is conspiracy to commit a crime. It's important because Trumpspeak is leading people to take up a position on something irrelevant. For the time being a sufficiently robust prosecution based on obstruction can get him removed. Conspiracy or direct active participation with Russia may land him in prison.

 

[interchange]

Trump is right that he's not being investigated for collusion. Collusion in itself is not a crime. What he would be charged with instead is conspiracy to commit a crime. It's important because Trumpspeak is leading people to take up a position on something irrelevant. For the time being a sufficiently robust prosecution based on obstruction can get him removed. Conspiracy or direct active participation with Russia may land him in prison.

I don't really buy into that. Evidence of collusion would be the only thing missing to nail him to a cross on these charges. This seems transparent, and in my mind it's easier to use the word collusion to imply this.

That being said, the evidence offered thus far to the public points to him being criminally connected to Russia and their election interference without actual collusion. And I believe he is clearly guilty of obstruction already. There is plenty for Congress to hang him on if they so choose, but unfortunately this is no unbiased choice.

So I do think, perhaps, attention to the word collusion is being used as a tool for the right. But not because collusion itself is not a crime. Because it broadcasts that the bar for him being a criminal is proving collusion. The bar is far from that high, and it has already been crossed.

 

[interchange]

His alleged reasons for Mueller having conflicts of interest though were interesting - the idea that because they once had an argument over golfing fees that this in Trump's view would be enough to regard Mueller as being unable to do any job that relates to Trump - does rather suggest that the opposite would be true (that if Trump were investigating Mueller), the fact that they once had an argument over golfing fees would be enough to make Trump prejudiced against him. If there was an attribute for a budding depostic dictator, the ability to hold grudges over the most trivial of shit is a serious fucking bullseye.

Perhaps we could have predicted things would end up like this -- if only there was anything in Trump's history before becoming president that demonstrated that he heinously and persistently held grudges for perceived and minor offenses and maliciously acted on them....

 

[mikeymikec]

Perhaps we could have predicted things would end up like this -- if only there was anything in Trump's history before becoming president that demonstrated that he heinously and persistently held grudges for perceived and minor offenses and maliciously acted on them....

When Trump was elected, a scene from a sitcom I enjoyed sprang to mind whereby the main character inexplicably becomes the dictator of some country, talked about how he was going to improve everything, then it fast-forwarded to the people storming his gold-plated mansion with his morbidly obese form still in it.

Ah, Duckman.

 

[IronWing]

The White House says it didn't happen. Nothing ever happens at the White House.

 

[kage69]

I'll never get tired of watching Baron von Bumblefuck dig his hole deeper. A mental midget with no integrity and a 7 second attention span wants to testify, under oath, about his many dealings with Russia and a litany of obstruction of justice attempts?

That's even funnier than this sudden appreciation and concern for conflicts of interest Dump seems to have. The guy who doesn't give a shit about ethics or the Emoluments Clause thinks someone else has a conflict of interest?

lol ....can't....breathe.... I feel like I should stand and give applause that's so good

 

[Pens1566]

A few things:

1) Mueller has known about this for quite some time via interviews. Makes you wonder what other bombshells he has that aren't so obvious

2) You have to ask McGahn why he felt the need to resign vs carrying out the order. If it was to protect himself from an illegal act, the president has a yuge problem in that it would be even more evidence towards the "corrupt intent" necessary for obstruction.

3) Who did the president ask to come up with the bullshit excuses for why Mueller had a conflict? They are also now in serious legal jeopardy.

 

[TeeJay1952]

Emoluments Clause
Maybe this is why Trump needed to divest himself from his investments. I hope he does not order Nuclear Strike or government ban on others behind on their green fees or rent.

 

[zinfamous]

Seems inevitable that Trump will be charged with obstruction of justice.

time to start trotting out the next home-grown liberal conspiracy: So, anyone want to wonder who all is behind this seemingly way-too-easy investigation and prosecution of the Trump family? My money is on the Kochs and Mercer, having easy access to information via their puppets and Russian intelligence contacts, leaking this information out to the FBI and CIA. (obviously, the investigation hasn't been embarrassingly easy because the Trump family consists entirely of retards--so it must be something else, right?)

Why? Because Pence is their man. Dude was dead in Indiana and his empty dreams of achieving higher office were all but over when, miraculously, the Kochs (always Pence's chief ideology feeders), somehow managed to orchestrate the wedding between him and Trump--a group of people that publicly have no real love for each other. Quite the opposite, really.

So, why the hell would the Kochs do this and why the hell would Pence go along with sucking this amoral shitface's cock for so long? ....what was he promised?

/tinfoil

 

[cytg111]

I wouldn't rush to assume Trump will be in prison, but it does show that he's stupid enough to commit acts that would get him into trouble even with a sycophantic GOP.

The best part is Fox News' Sean Hannity getting caught in a lie within mere minutes.

"The NYT is trying to distract you! Our sources aren't confirming that Trump tried to fire Mueller!"

*minutes later*

"Uh, so our sources say Trump did try to fire Mueller, but who cares?"

The sad part is that there are gullible people on this forum and elsewhere who'll still take Hannity's statements at face value.

Making sure not to use his name the second time either... dude knows he is talking to goldfish..
To backpeddle on this one he might have to go into full reta.... alex jones mode..

 

[zinfamous]

Let’s just take a minute to note that boomerang isn’t even willing to accept stories that Sean Hannity has.

Sean. Hannity.

That’s the level of mental illness we are talking about here.

now now, Hannity said he would get around to it tomorrow night (meaning tonight). Let's be fair to boomerang because he's just waiting for Hannity to update him on what he should be thinking.

...ooOO CAR CHASE!

 

[cytg111]

yea car chase was more important lol

I thought the metaphor was spot on.. likely not what Hannity was going for but non the less : Here we have Trump at tremendous speed and agility dodging the special counsil Robert Mueller, oh gosh the speed *BOOOM*...
I should voice over it and ul to youtube...

 

[zinfamous]

The White House says it didn't happen. Nothing ever happens at the White House.

That's because the whitehouse is a total dump. Even a shithole, maybe. No one ever wants to do things at the whitehouse.

 

[Younigue]

Hannity or Trump?

Hannity: Probably not. Trump (along with the rest of the intended audience) was probably succesfully distracted by the car chase.

Both.

Well, he did sell the hell out of that car chase.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Seems inevitable that Trump will be charged with obstruction of justice.

I would not be so sure. The way I understand it Mueller can only recommend charges, a Republican congress would then have to actually move on impeachment, and only after impeachment could Trump be charged. Right now it looks a whole lot like Republicans are preparing to discount anything Mueller recommends as 'biased' and part of a conspiracy to overthrow Trump.

What can we really do if they simply ignore his recommendation? We can protest, but they will mostly ignore that as well, or if it picks up too much steam use the powers of government to push the protests away like they did the Occupy Wall street protests.

It is conceivable that the real end game here is that Republicans claim that the DOJ and FBI are attempting a coup to overthrow the elected government and Trump fires basically everyone in those agencies and replaces them with loyal cronies that will prosecute political opponents. Those that support the Republicans are already primed to believe the most outrageous lies so will not even bat an eye at the idea that the DOJ and FBI are attempting a coup. Then suddenly the FBI finds that any Democrats too vocal about what is happening has some skeleton in their closet and is under investigation for collusion to overthrow the government.

 

[Amused]

I wouldn't rush to assume Trump will be in prison, but it does show that he's stupid enough to commit acts that would get him into trouble even with a sycophantic GOP.

The best part is Fox News' Sean Hannity getting caught in a lie within mere minutes.

"The NYT is trying to distract you! Our sources aren't confirming that Trump tried to fire Mueller!"

*minutes later*

"Uh, so our sources say Trump did try to fire Mueller, but who cares?"

The sad part is that there are gullible people on this forum and elsewhere who'll still take Hannity's statements at face value.

He literally cut to the chase.

 

[interchange]

3) Who did the president ask to come up with the bullshit excuses for why Mueller had a conflict? They are also now in serious legal jeopardy.

Hmmmm... Is it possible that Nunes and the FISA memo pushers, etc., might risk heading to obstruction territory? Certainly if they conferred with Trump on this aim, but even if their actions are independent? I could see threat of that happening causing Congress to shape up, and if Trump poisoned those charges with presidential pardon that ought to be way worse than firing Mueller. Of course if this was even hinted at, Republicans might instead unleash a full-scale assault on Mueller and the FBI.

 

[Thebobo]

Hmmmm... Is it possible that Nunes and the FISA memo pushers, etc., might risk heading to obstruction territory? Certainly if they conferred with Trump on this aim, but even if their actions are independent? I could see threat of that happening causing Congress to shape up, and if Trump poisoned those charges with presidential pardon that ought to be way worse than firing Mueller. Of course if this was even hinted at, Republicans might instead unleash a full-scale assault on Mueller and the FBI.

I certainly think they have.

 

[SMOGZINN]

I could see threat of that happening causing Congress to shape up, and if Trump poisoned those charges with presidential pardon that ought to be way worse than firing Mueller.

If Mueller recommended charges against Nunes et all, and Trump pardoned them, who would have to hold Trump accountable? The people Trump pardoned?

 

[Pens1566]

If Mueller recommended charges against Nunes et all, and Trump pardoned them, who would have to hold Trump accountable? The people Trump pardoned?

There's some legal theory-ing that a pardon could be struck down in the case it's used to protect a co conspirator. The thinking being that use of the pardon power to shield yourself by pardoning those involved with you in the same matter essentially makes you above the law, an all powerful king. Violates intent of the founders and has huge separation of powers implications.

At the very least, there would be a likely scotus decision required.

 

[interchange]

If Mueller recommended charges against Nunes et all, and Trump pardoned them, who would have to hold Trump accountable? The people Trump pardoned?

I'm saying it ought to be way worse than firing Mueller. Not that it will be received that way or that action will happen. But even if they protect him, if the country can remain solvent until he leaves the White House, the benefit of history will indignify these men and their behavior. It may be little consolation, but it is something worth having.

 

[Sunburn74]

NYT - check
Unnamed sources - check

Sounds legit.

Thanks for the laugh to start off my day!

Interesting response..you realize that for everyone at the white house fired in the last 12 months, unnamed sources broke the news first? Or for all the charges levied against campaign members by the special counsel unnamed sources dropped the news days in advance? The s*hole story? Unnamed sources. I could go on and on. The fact of the matter is for many things in politics you cannot name sources; it doesn't mean the information provided isn't credible. In fact for some of the things reported about the Trump white house that came from unnamed sources we later learned those sources were no other than Bannon and Priebus themselves!

 

[alien42]

NYT - check
Unnamed sources - check

Sounds legit.

Thanks for the laugh to start off my day!

now that Faux News has confirmed this story, what say ye?

and thank you for the laugh.

 

[Sunburn74]

I would not be so sure. The way I understand it Mueller can only recommend charges, a Republican congress would then have to actually move on impeachment, and only after impeachment could Trump be charged.

Are you saying a president can't be charged with crimes? He has to be impeached first and the criminally charged? That seems odd. That's like saying Trump could murder a guy in the oval office and would be invincible in until his Congress impeached him. Also what about crimes that occurred prior to being a president?

 

[zinfamous]

Are you saying a president can't be charged with crimes? He has to be impeached first and the criminally charged? That seems odd. That's like saying Trump could murder a guy in the oval office and would be invincible in until his Congress impeached him. Also what about crimes that occurred prior to being a president?

Yes. He's not immune from criminality but can't be charged until Congress impeaches. Full impeachment could actually take anywhere between 1 hour, to 2 years, to...however long Congress decides it needs to take. I guess it depends on the scale of the crime(s) but of course more importantly, the desire for the sitting Congress to actually do their jobs. There aren't a lot of rules governing impeachment, and even less actual precedent towards how it should be done.