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Trump NY Criminal Trial

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fskimospy said:
This guy is going to be very confused when those things don’t happen. (Except the delays, which are unfortunately real)
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I've seen a lot of very confident and opposing opinion's on the vast array of Trumps legal issues. The opinions are varied that it's hard to believe that they're all about the same subject.
In the world of journalism, expert opinion now means "paid shill", it's discouraging to the point that I've given up even trying to follow it, which may be the entire reason for it.
 
Greenman said:
I've seen a lot of very confident and opposing opinion's on the vast array of Trumps legal issues. The opinions are varied that it's hard to believe that they're all about the same subject.
In the world of journalism, expert opinion now means "paid shill", it's discouraging to the point that I've given up even trying to follow it, which may be the entire reason for it.
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That’s definitely true for conservative media because that’s the point - to tell conservatives comforting lies. Oddly and disappointingly the secondary purpose of conservative media is to convince their consumers that the rest of the media is somehow a mirror image, which it is not.

Conservative media wins when they either convince you of their viewpoint or, as in this case, make you throw your arms up and say it’s all bad and there’s no way to know. This is similar to how Russian propaganda works where the goal of the ‘firehose of falsehood’ is not necessarily to make you agree with them, but to decide it’s impossible to know the truth.

In reality we both know Trump is guilty, and in this case, and if others are allowed to go to the facts he will be found guilty in those too. The evidence in the case is overwhelming.
 
Greenman said:
I don't know Trump is guilty. At this point the answer to that question depends on who you ask.
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Yes, you’re doing exactly what conservative media tells you to do.

If you would like to explain how Trump is plausibly not guilty in his current trial or say, in the documents trial I’m very open to having that discussion. I find it highly unlikely you will be willing or able to do this though because you know as well as I do that he’s guilty.
 
fskimospy said:
Yes, you’re doing exactly what conservative media tells you to do.

If you would like to explain how Trump is plausibly not guilty in his current trial or say, in the documents trial I’m very open to having that discussion. I find it highly unlikely you will be willing or able to do this though because you know as well as I do that he’s guilty.
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I made a simple statement of fact, I don't know that Trump is guilty. That's an accurate statement and I'm sorry if it doesn't fit the conclusions you've already reached.
I also wonder why you think I would choose to debate legal matters that aren't settled? This stuff isn't my life, I don't hang on every word muttered about Trump, and I'm sure as hell not going to dive into a never ending debate about it. The reason for that is most people and most media have already decided on his guilt or innocence, just like you. No discussion is going to change that, and political masturbation just ain't my thing.
 
Greenman said:
I made a simple statement of fact, I don't know that Trump is guilty. That's an accurate statement and I'm sorry if it doesn't fit the conclusions you've already reached.
I also wonder why you think I would choose to debate legal matters that aren't settled? This stuff isn't my life, I don't hang on every word muttered about Trump, and I'm sure as hell not going to dive into a never ending debate about it. The reason for that is most people and most media have already decided on his guilt or innocence, just like you. No discussion is going to change that, and political masturbation just ain't my thing.
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There’s no need to debate here - I’m just interested as to why given the publicly available information that I’m certain you’re aware of, you doubt his guilt. I mean it’s not exactly a complicated affair.

This is a very easy question to answer but I strongly suspect you will not do so.
 
Greenman said:
I made a simple statement of fact, I don't know that Trump is guilty. That's an accurate statement and I'm sorry if it doesn't fit the conclusions you've already reached.
I also wonder why you think I would choose to debate legal matters that aren't settled? This stuff isn't my life, I don't hang on every word muttered about Trump, and I'm sure as hell not going to dive into a never ending debate about it. The reason for that is most people and most media have already decided on his guilt or innocence, just like you. No discussion is going to change that, and political masturbation just ain't my thing.
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He's literally admitted, on live, recorded television, statements of guilt with intent regarding actions that are crimes in the United States of America. I do not know how one can be more clear about this.
 
You guys don’t remember? We’ve had this discussion before. If it’s someone on the right that’s accused of committing a crime, they aren’t guilty unless they get convicted, even if the crime is witnessed first hand by everyone. If someone on the left is accused of committing a crime, the act of accusing is enough to warrant being guilty in the mind of a righty, even if the person on the left hasn’t been charged with a crime and no actual evidence exists.
 
fskimospy said:
There’s no need to debate here - I’m just interested as to why given the publicly available information that I’m certain you’re aware of, you doubt his guilt. I mean it’s not exactly a complicated affair.

This is a very easy question to answer but I strongly suspect you will not do so.
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Haven't you heard? There was no Russian interference either! 😀
 
Greenman said:
I made a simple statement of fact, I don't know that Trump is guilty. That's an accurate statement and I'm sorry if it doesn't fit the conclusions you've already reached.
I also wonder why you think I would choose to debate legal matters that aren't settled? This stuff isn't my life, I don't hang on every word muttered about Trump, and I'm sure as hell not going to dive into a never ending debate about it. The reason for that is most people and most media have already decided on his guilt or innocence, just like you. No discussion is going to change that, and political masturbation just ain't my thing.
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This is such an odd line you've drawn with Trump, and only Trump.
 
JD50 said:
This is such an odd line you've drawn with Trump, and only Trump.
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I think the primary issue is that conservatives spent years saying liberal criticism of Trump was hysterical, partisan, Trump derangement syndrome, whatever.

Admitting that he is in fact a huge criminal amounts to admitting the liberals were right all along, and that’s not something conservatives can bring themselves to do.
 
Just think…if NY and GA get their shit together and actually convict Trump…and <gawd forbid> sentence him to jail/prison, AND Trump wins the election…we could have the first President in US history whose inauguration is held inside the prison walls…and whose “Oval Office” is in an 8x12’ cell…

<sigh> if only.
 
fskimospy said:
I think the primary issue is that conservatives spent years saying liberal criticism of Trump was hysterical, partisan, Trump derangement syndrome, whatever.

Admitting that he is in fact a huge criminal amounts to admitting the liberals were right all along, and that’s not something conservatives can bring themselves to do.
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It's rationalization at a group level. As their views clash with reality, they need to twist things in new ways to keep their world consistent.
 
JTsyo said:
It's rationalization at a group level. As their views clash with reality, they need to twist things in new ways to keep their world consistent.
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It seems to me to be an avoidance strategy to avoid experiencing uncomfortable thoughts and feelings. (Although I guess that’s similar)

Like does anyone actually think @Greenman has been so closed off from the news that he has no idea if Trump is guilty or not? Of course not. Admitting it carries a bunch of uncomfortable consequences though because then you have to question why other republicans you might want to vote for are defending a massive criminal. Easier to just say ‘who knows?!’
 
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